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Thread: How good was Floyd?

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  1. #91
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    why would i have to base my rating only on what i have seen?


    Not my argument, but.....

    Am I the only one here that sees a huge sense of irony in this quote??

    Anyway... carry on.

  2. #92
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    I’m sure Benny Leonard was one of the great Lightweights, I’m not disputing that.
    But how can someone say he is better than , for example, SRL or Duran if they have never seen him fight?
    You can’t do it from reading up on them.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    You can base your opinions on fighters based on what you read about them, what they achieved and opinions from respected people about them. Nathaniel Fleischer, founder of Ring magazine, rated Jack Johnson and other old fighters highly and wrote articles illustrating how good they were.
    So if Nathaniel Fleischer goes in balls deep about Jack Johnson, you would happily put him above Ali for example?
    I thought the forum was for expressing OUR thoughts and opinions , not somebody else’s.
    I’ll have to remember this when I’m “debating” with certain people , while they are just plain “mass debating” or something that sounds like that anyway. SMH.
    your questions are always slanted, i don't base my rankings only on what nathaniel fleischer said. the forum is for expressing our opinions, can opinions not align with those of others? remember when you're debating if the topic is subjective or objective
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  4. #94
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    why would i have to base my rating only on what i have seen?


    Not my argument, but.....

    Am I the only one here that sees a huge sense of irony in this quote??

    Anyway... carry on.
    there is no irony, these lists are subjective, based on opinions. it's typical you don't understand the difference between opinions & knowing something to be true
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    I’m sure Benny Leonard was one of the great Lightweights, I’m not disputing that.
    But how can someone say he is better than , for example, SRL or Duran if they have never seen him fight?
    You can’t do it from reading up on them.
    so now you're sure benny leonard was one of the great lightweights? & you're not disputing it? i'm not saying it's a fact that benny was better than ray or roberto, i'd actually have roberto ahead, i wouldn't know because they never fought, it's just my opinion, you seem to not understand that these lists are subjective, who are you to tell someone they can't base their opinion on reading up? i can & i do
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  6. #96
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    I’m sure Benny Leonard was one of the great Lightweights, I’m not disputing that.
    But how can someone say he is better than , for example, SRL or Duran if they have never seen him fight?
    You can’t do it from reading up on them.
    so now you're sure benny leonard was one of the great lightweights? & you're not disputing it? i'm not saying it's a fact that benny was better than ray or roberto, i'd actually have roberto ahead, i wouldn't know because they never fought, it's just my opinion, you seem to not understand that these lists are subjective, who are you to tell someone they can't base their opinion on reading up? i can & i do
    On what basis would you have Duran ahead of Benny Leonard ?
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    I’m sure Benny Leonard was one of the great Lightweights, I’m not disputing that.
    But how can someone say he is better than , for example, SRL or Duran if they have never seen him fight?
    You can’t do it from reading up on them.
    so now you're sure benny leonard was one of the great lightweights? & you're not disputing it? i'm not saying it's a fact that benny was better than ray or roberto, i'd actually have roberto ahead, i wouldn't know because they never fought, it's just my opinion, you seem to not understand that these lists are subjective, who are you to tell someone they can't base their opinion on reading up? i can & i do
    On what basis would you have Duran ahead of Benny Leonard ?
    on the basis of the information i have available to me
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    I’m sure Benny Leonard was one of the great Lightweights, I’m not disputing that.
    why are you sure benny leonard was one of the great lightweights & you don't dispute that. are you basing that on what you have seen?
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    I’m sure Benny Leonard was one of the great Lightweights, I’m not disputing that.
    why are you sure benny leonard was one of the great lightweights & you don't dispute that. are you basing that on what you have seen?
    When I’m said “I’m sure” it’s a thing that you say. It doesn’t mean I am sure, it means “I’m sure you’re not lying, I don’t dispute what you are saying.”
    I don’t dispute it because I don’t talk about things I don’t know anything about.
    I Think you know this, but it suits you to twist or spin my words as a stalling tactic or to deflect from questions raised.
    When I form an opinion, I form it on what I see. That’s why it’s MY OPINION.
    I can’t imagine me saying for example, “yeah Ali was decent, but I rate Jack Johnson slightly above him because Bert Bacharach from the New York Tribune said that he was the greatest boxer of all time.”
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I would have Thomas Hitman Hearns on a p4p ATG list and he lost to great fighters in Leonard and Hagler. He was fearless and went up the weights destroying most along the way. Just because he lost does not mean he was lower than Floyd.
    Absolutely! I was only talking about this the other day. Unfortunately there are “ifs” that stop him being ranked maybe top 1 or 2.
    1. If he had beaten SRL in one or both of their fights (not inconceivable)
    2. If he hadn’t thrown his game plan out of the window against Hagler at the first bell because of something that riled him in the build up week.
    And also , I’m more convinced about him than any other Boxer ,that if he fought Floyd in a mythical match up that he would beat him .
    Tommy was a beast- I feel like he won the Leonard rematch pretty handily but they scored it a draw. No shame in the first loss at all, that was a great match up between two legit ATGs in their primes. No shame in the Hagler loss either- he moved up to take on one of the best ATG middles ever and lost the most exciting fight in the history of the sport. The losses to Barkley hurt Tommy’s ranking more than anything else- Barkley had his number but outside of that he shouldn’t have been anywhere near Tommy’s level.

    Head to head Tommy and Ray destroy Floyd at 147. As Master said, however, 147 wasn’t Floyd’s best weight and the other two were HUGE and maybe in the top 3 best ever at the weight. Historically ranking them I put Ray above Floyd (by a few spots) and Tommy behind him.
    Barkley was very lucky in the first fight, he was being ripped apart and absolutely destroyed with the ref about to stop it.

    Tommy was vicious, so precise with his punches and dominated that contest until that punch! That was a near complete performance as you could get, top quality from Hearns.
    Floyd is a genuinely great boxer. Cool, composed and immaculate technique with a tough tough mindset.

    At Welter, though, Hearns murders him. Tommy was HUGE at the weight, whereas Floyd was always a small welter.

    Hearns is the only guy to truly outbox Ray Leonard, who I think was technically as good as Floyd. Hearns was truly vicious in there too …. And I would know.

    Over 12 rounds, I don’t see how Floyd wins this one. If you were going to create a composite fighter to beat Floyd, it would end up looking just like Tommy.
    If God wanted us to be vegetarians, why are animals made of meat ?

  11. #101
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    I’m sure Benny Leonard was one of the great Lightweights, I’m not disputing that.
    why are you sure benny leonard was one of the great lightweights & you don't dispute that. are you basing that on what you have seen?
    When I’m said “I’m sure” it’s a thing that you say. It doesn’t mean I am sure, it means “I’m sure you’re not lying, I don’t dispute what you are saying.”
    I don’t dispute it because I don’t talk about things I don’t know anything about.
    I Think you know this, but it suits you to twist or spin my words as a stalling tactic or to deflect from questions raised.
    When I form an opinion, I form it on what I see. That’s why it’s MY OPINION.
    I can’t imagine me saying for example, “yeah Ali was decent, but I rate Jack Johnson slightly above him because Bert Bacharach from the New York Tribune said that he was the greatest boxer of all time.”
    i'm is a contraction of i am. you also said you don't dispute it. you don't have to know something to have an opinion. i'm not twisting or spinning your words, that is exactly what you wrote. i'm not stalling or deflecting from any questions, i don't base my ratings only on what i have seen but on many forms of information available to me. you are free to form your opinion only on what you see, i can form my opinion based on many other forms of information & it will still be my opinion. i can't imagine you saying “yeah ali was decent, but I rate jack johnson slightly above him because bert bacharach from the new york tribune said that he was the greatest boxer of all time.” either, i also can't imagine myself saying that either
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    why would i have to base my rating only on what i have seen?


    Not my argument, but.....

    Am I the only one here that sees a huge sense of irony in this quote??

    Anyway... carry on.
    there is no irony, these lists are subjective, based on opinions. it's typical you don't understand the difference between opinions & knowing something to be true

    Oh, it is you who don't understand... my eternally-contradictory friend.

    It appears the message went right over your head.

    For everything else in life you live by a "must see to believe" credo. And yet for boxing rankings you question that very same principle.

    No issues.

    Just pointing out the ironic oddity of that statement.

  13. #103
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    why would i have to base my rating only on what i have seen?


    Not my argument, but.....

    Am I the only one here that sees a huge sense of irony in this quote??

    Anyway... carry on.
    there is no irony, these lists are subjective, based on opinions. it's typical you don't understand the difference between opinions & knowing something to be true

    Oh, it is you who don't understand... my eternally-contradictory friend.

    It appears the message went right over your head.

    For everything else in life you live by a "must see to believe" credo. And yet for boxing rankings you question that very same principle.

    No issues.

    Just pointing out the ironic oddity of that statement.
    where have i ever said must see to believe? in real life i say verify to be true. boxing rankings are subjective, just opinions & ideas. i'm not trying to claim they are factual. you still can't understand the difference between subjective & objective
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

  14. #104
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    where have i ever said must see to believe? in real life i say verify to be true.




    Oh stop it! You're killing me here.

    You're burying yourself in this argument.

    Pretty rich... from someone who lives in Conspiracy Theory La-La-Land... and has denied a pandemic that has been proven and re-proven and re-re-proven to all of the civilized world.... and that has killed scores of people worldwide.

    "Where have you ever said must see to believe??"

    You've.

    Got.

    To.

    Be.

    Kidding.

    Me.



  15. #105
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    where have i ever said must see to believe? in real life i say verify to be true.




    Oh stop it! You're killing me here.

    You're burying yourself in this argument.

    Pretty rich... from someone who lives in Conspiracy Theory La-La-Land... and has denied a pandemic that has been proven and re-proven and re-re-proven to all of the civilized world.... and that has killed scores of people worldwide.

    "Where have you ever said must see to believe??"

    You've.

    Got.

    To.

    Be.

    Kidding.

    Me.


    where is your proof that convid is a virus caught from outside the body, from person to person through the air or off surfaces that i can verify? you have already admitted that you only believe that & spat the dummy when the burden of proof was placed on you to prove your belief is true. still waiting for me to show me where i said must see to believe
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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