NFL player Damar Hamlin collapses during game; suffers cardiac arrest

[TIC]

well that's determination of "cause" enough.

only problem i have with this is that is exactly how some danced & yelled that "covid dunn'it" based on a failed pcr test when the cause of death was not known if it was with covid or from covid. whatever it was people were believing convid was

God forbid we ask anything crazy like family history, previous injuries. This merry go round never ends.

yes other possibilities yeh? i can think of several other possibilities of cause the top of my head

how have you verified their claims to be false? can you please provide your processes so i can verify them as false for myself? i'm not saying it is not a possibility but i am not just going to believe secondhand information, so i'll wait for the processes you have verified to be false that support your statement of damning evidence, unless you want to admit you are just believing something

considering different potential possibilities of cause aren't claims of something being true larry. what claims of something being true did i make in my post here larry?

[TIC]

That is the only thing that matters at this point. Wild conjectures about the cause are pointless and frankly only damaging at this point. But that doesn't stop people from doing it.

The NFL has its hands full right now, as it desperately tries to balance the sensitivity of Hamlin's injuries with the remainder of the season and the looming playoffs.

I'd hate to be in those front offices (NFL) during these times. They're bound to get criticized no matter what they decide.

just because people are questioning the cause does not mean they are not concern for this man. master posted a question asking if we are seeing more of these incidents as he must be noticing something that he felt like asking the forum. i agree wild conjectures are pointless. the question from master & my own about other possibilities of cause are far from wild conjectures & are more about reasoned discussion. you & i will never know the real cause, no matter what the media says but i for one will be keeping an eye out hoping that these incidents don't become more regular. i'm not really familiar with the workings of the nfl, could you please inform me what you are referencing there? in regards to the remainder of the season & being in the front offices. from their point of view wasn't this tragic incident just a random occurrence off a routine tackle? or are they getting flack about player safety of something? what decision are they supposed to make?

[Beanz]

Are we seeing more of these heart attacks now? There have been numerous footballers that have had a attack and had to retire because of heart issues nowadays.

that's a good question to ask. well done. to me there certainly seems to be a lot of what i would consider young & generally healthy people having health issues in recent times. i have already mention a friend of mine that had a heart attack not that long ago & i personally know three other guys all under forty that have had heart issues recently & several other people who i had previously considered to be in good health, who are now a lot more ill & unhealthier than they have ever been. now the causes of this unhealthiness in supposedly young, healthy people could be numerous but it is something to keep an eye on. from my own experience i will add that my health is probably the best it's ever been

how have you verified their claims to be true? can you please provide your processes so i can verify them as true for myself? i'm not saying it is not a possibility but i am not just going to believe secondhand information, so i'll wait for the processes you have verified to be true that support your statement of damning evidence, unless you want to admit you are just believing something

you still don't understand burden of proof larry

FB_IMG_1672859310616.jpg

[TIC]

Are we seeing more of these heart attacks now? There have been numerous footballers that have had a attack and had to retire because of heart issues nowadays.

that's a good question to ask. well done. to me there certainly seems to be a lot of what i would consider young & generally healthy people having health issues in recent times. i have already mention a friend of mine that had a heart attack not that long ago & i personally know three other guys all under forty that have had heart issues recently & several other people who i had previously considered to be in good health, who are now a lot more ill & unhealthier than they have ever been. now the causes of this unhealthiness in supposedly young, healthy people could be numerous but it is something to keep an eye on. from my own experience i will add that my health is probably the best it's ever been

how have you verified their claims to be true? can you please provide your processes so i can verify them as true for myself? i'm not saying it is not a possibility but i am not just going to believe secondhand information, so i'll wait for the processes you have verified to be true that support your statement of damning evidence, unless you want to admit you are just believing something

you still don't understand burden of proof larry

FB_IMG_1672859310616.jpg

now run along larry & learn what burden of proof is

[Beanz]

Are we seeing more of these heart attacks now? There have been numerous footballers that have had a attack and had to retire because of heart issues nowadays.

that's a good question to ask. well done. to me there certainly seems to be a lot of what i would consider young & generally healthy people having health issues in recent times. i have already mention a friend of mine that had a heart attack not that long ago & i personally know three other guys all under forty that have had heart issues recently & several other people who i had previously considered to be in good health, who are now a lot more ill & unhealthier than they have ever been. now the causes of this unhealthiness in supposedly young, healthy people could be numerous but it is something to keep an eye on. from my own experience i will add that my health is probably the best it's ever been

how have you verified their claims to be true? can you please provide your processes so i can verify them as true for myself? i'm not saying it is not a possibility but i am not just going to believe secondhand information, so i'll wait for the processes you have verified to be true that support your statement of damning evidence, unless you want to admit you are just believing something

you still don't understand burden of proof larry

I think being a formal legal case worker I absolutely understand what the burden of proof refers to and how in virtually every case you bring up and claim something untoward has happened, that burden rests with you. You are always questioning widely accepted and proven facts without actually ever bringing any facts of your own to the table. You can't even accept your own rules of engagement when they are quoted back at you.

[TIC]

Are we seeing more of these heart attacks now? There have been numerous footballers that have had a attack and had to retire because of heart issues nowadays.

that's a good question to ask. well done. to me there certainly seems to be a lot of what i would consider young & generally healthy people having health issues in recent times. i have already mention a friend of mine that had a heart attack not that long ago & i personally know three other guys all under forty that have had heart issues recently & several other people who i had previously considered to be in good health, who are now a lot more ill & unhealthier than they have ever been. now the causes of this unhealthiness in supposedly young, healthy people could be numerous but it is something to keep an eye on. from my own experience i will add that my health is probably the best it's ever been

how have you verified their claims to be true? can you please provide your processes so i can verify them as true for myself? i'm not saying it is not a possibility but i am not just going to believe secondhand information, so i'll wait for the processes you have verified to be true that support your statement of damning evidence, unless you want to admit you are just believing something

you still don't understand burden of proof larry

I think being a formal legal case worker I absolutely understand what the burden of proof refers to and how in virtually every case you bring up and claim something untoward has happened, that burden rests with you. You are always questioning widely accepted and proven facts without actually ever bringing any facts of your own to the table. You can't even accept your own rules of engagement when they are quoted back at you.

if you make a claim that something is real then the burden of proof is on you to prove that claim is true. burden of proof is so simple & yet you struggle with it's simplicity. i question things that can't be proven to be true larry. i don't question provable facts because everyone can verify a fact larry. are you agreeing with nosavingbythebell that this incident was caused due to an effect from the convid jab? that is what his post implied, so i feel it is right to get those claims verified don't you larry? it could be a possibility, as could trauma from the tackle, as could numerous other possibilities be the cause. you & i will never know the real cause but if these incidents become a regular thing among the supposed young & healthy then the causes might need to be revisited

[TitoFan]

That is the only thing that matters at this point. Wild conjectures about the cause are pointless and frankly only damaging at this point. But that doesn't stop people from doing it.

The NFL has its hands full right now, as it desperately tries to balance the sensitivity of Hamlin's injuries with the remainder of the season and the looming playoffs.

I'd hate to be in those front offices (NFL) during these times. They're bound to get criticized no matter what they decide.

just because people are questioning the cause does not mean they are not concern for this man. master posted a question asking if we are seeing more of these incidents as he must be noticing something that he felt like asking the forum. i agree wild conjectures are pointless. the question from master & my own about other possibilities of cause are far from wild conjectures & are more about reasoned discussion. you & i will never know the real cause, no matter what the media says but i for one will be keeping an eye out hoping that these incidents don't become more regular. i'm not really familiar with the workings of the nfl, could you please inform me what you are referencing there? in regards to the remainder of the season & being in the front offices. from their point of view wasn't this tragic incident just a random occurrence off a routine tackle? or are they getting flack about player safety of something? what decision are they supposed to make?

It doesn't appear we are "seeing more of these incidents." But here's a look back at other cardiac related incidents on the field of play (including other sports):


https://www.insider.com/sports-stars...-hamlin-2023-1

"Damar Hamlin isn't the first pro athlete to have cardiac arrest on the field — here are 5 other stars who collapsed while the clock was running"

From the article:

• Chuck Hughes, Detroit Lions NFL player - Collapsed without contact on the field of play in 1971 and died
• Christian Eriksen, Danish soccer player - Non-contact collapse during Euro 2020 during a game in 2021. Was revived.
• Chris Pronger, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed after hit from puck on chest during game in 1998. Made a full recovery.
• Jay Bouwmeester, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed while on bench in 2020. Was revived and later retired from the sport.
• Marc-Vivien Foé, Cameroon soccer team - Non-contact collapse during game in 2003. Could not be revived.

Also from the article:

"Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin has been hospitalized in critical condition after being treated on the field for cardiac arrest. The 24-year-old safety collapsed after a tackle during a Monday night game against the Bengals.

While the details of Hamlin's health aren't yet clear, the incident is part of a long history of athletes suffering cardiac events during competition in sports, such as football, soccer, and hockey.

Dozen of other such incidents have occurred in the past few decades, some of them fatal. While heart problems in elite athletes are rare, they can occur because of underlying conditions, including undiagnosed heart disease or genetic abnormalities, which are exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress, according to research published in 2019.

Getting hit in the chest with enough force can also disrupt the heartbeat, a condition called commotio cordis, which is also rare but can be caused by an object like a hockey puck or baseball, or contact with another player.

While pro athletes are routinely screened for medical conditions, some risks are difficult to predict or prevent, resulting in shocking and occasionally deadly mid-game medical emergencies."

"Underlying conditions"... "undiagnosed heart disease"... "genetic abnormalities". "Exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress..."

I'm going with these for the time being.

Factually-based opinions from medical professionals, whose opinions have more weight than anybody on Facebook or Twitter.



Oh... about the NFL and its decisions.

The game where Hamlin was injured was finally postponed after it was clear that none of the players were in any emotional shape to continue. The game was critical in determining playoff positioning and seeding for the beginning of playoff season a week and a half from now. The NFL has a decision to make as to whether make up this game... cancel it altogether... or push the playoffs back in order to accommodate the finishing of the game at some later date. Their decision will have ramifications on a group of teams currently fighting for playoff positioning.

The play itself where Hamlin was injured was most definitely a routine tackle, which obviously factors into the determinations being made as we speak as to the possible causes for the injury. Until more knowledgeable minds than you or I come to some sort of conclusions, the cause remains unknown. The league (NFL) meanwhile, finds itself in the unenviable position of having to delicately balance the still uncertain outcome of Hamlin's recovery, with the need to finish the season and begin the playoffs.

[TIC]

That is the only thing that matters at this point. Wild conjectures about the cause are pointless and frankly only damaging at this point. But that doesn't stop people from doing it.

The NFL has its hands full right now, as it desperately tries to balance the sensitivity of Hamlin's injuries with the remainder of the season and the looming playoffs.

I'd hate to be in those front offices (NFL) during these times. They're bound to get criticized no matter what they decide.

just because people are questioning the cause does not mean they are not concern for this man. master posted a question asking if we are seeing more of these incidents as he must be noticing something that he felt like asking the forum. i agree wild conjectures are pointless. the question from master & my own about other possibilities of cause are far from wild conjectures & are more about reasoned discussion. you & i will never know the real cause, no matter what the media says but i for one will be keeping an eye out hoping that these incidents don't become more regular. i'm not really familiar with the workings of the nfl, could you please inform me what you are referencing there? in regards to the remainder of the season & being in the front offices. from their point of view wasn't this tragic incident just a random occurrence off a routine tackle? or are they getting flack about player safety of something? what decision are they supposed to make?

It doesn't appear we are "seeing more of these incidents." But here's a look back at other cardiac related incidents on the field of play (including other sports):


https://www.insider.com/sports-stars...-hamlin-2023-1

"Damar Hamlin isn't the first pro athlete to have cardiac arrest on the field — here are 5 other stars who collapsed while the clock was running"

From the article:

• Chuck Hughes, Detroit Lions NFL player - Collapsed without contact on the field of play in 1971 and died
• Christian Eriksen, Danish soccer player - Non-contact collapse during Euro 2020 during a game in 2021. Was revived.
• Chris Pronger, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed after hit from puck on chest during game in 1998. Made a full recovery.
• Jay Bouwmeester, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed while on bench in 2020. Was revived and later retired from the sport.
• Marc-Vivien Foé, Cameroon soccer team - Non-contact collapse during game in 2003. Could not be revived.

Also from the article:

"Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin has been hospitalized in critical condition after being treated on the field for cardiac arrest. The 24-year-old safety collapsed after a tackle during a Monday night game against the Bengals.

While the details of Hamlin's health aren't yet clear, the incident is part of a long history of athletes suffering cardiac events during competition in sports, such as football, soccer, and hockey.

Dozen of other such incidents have occurred in the past few decades, some of them fatal. While heart problems in elite athletes are rare, they can occur because of underlying conditions, including undiagnosed heart disease or genetic abnormalities, which are exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress, according to research published in 2019.

Getting hit in the chest with enough force can also disrupt the heartbeat, a condition called commotio cordis, which is also rare but can be caused by an object like a hockey puck or baseball, or contact with another player.

While pro athletes are routinely screened for medical conditions, some risks are difficult to predict or prevent, resulting in shocking and occasionally deadly mid-game medical emergencies."

"Underlying conditions"... "undiagnosed heart disease"... "genetic abnormalities". "Exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress..."

I'm going with these for the time being.

Factually-based opinions from medical professionals, whose opinions have more weight than anybody on Facebook or Twitter.



Oh... about the NFL and its decisions.

The game where Hamlin was injured was finally postponed after it was clear that none of the players were in any emotional shape to continue. The game was critical in determining playoff positioning and seeding for the beginning of playoff season a week and a half from now. The NFL has a decision to make as to whether make up this game... cancel it altogether... or push the playoffs back in order to accommodate the finishing of the game at some later date. Their decision will have ramifications on a group of teams currently fighting for playoff positioning.

The play itself where Hamlin was injured was most definitely a routine tackle, which obviously factors into the determinations being made as we speak as to the possible causes for the injury. Until more knowledgeable minds than you or I come to some sort of conclusions, the cause remains unknown. The league (NFL) meanwhile, finds itself in the unenviable position of having to delicately balance the still uncertain outcome of Hamlin's recovery, with the need to finish the season and begin the playoffs.

it could be that the media is just focusing on these incidents more currently but as i said in my original post in this thread, i have noticed several people i know who i considered young & in good health; whose health has deteriorated over the last few years. four of the guys have had heart issues. the causes of their health deterioration could be many but the one thing they have in common is that they are all covid vaccinated & boosted. now in saying that i also have friends that have been vaccinated & had booster shots who are still in good health. underlying conditions"... "undiagnosed heart disease"... "genetic abnormalities are definitely causes but it also a fact that when you mix chemicals you will get reactions. you can go with whatever you like, i'm happy to say i will never know what the cause was. cheers for the information on the nfl. i figured it was about the game being called off & affecting points & standings. the cause will always remain unknown to you & i. you will either choose to believe the conclusion presented to you or not, i'll file the information away in my mind as a definite possibility of cause but i will never know that to be true. hey look at us, having a slightly civil conversation so far. happy new year to year titofan, i hope you are successful in all your pursuits this year

[NoSavingByTheBell]

I just want a nice wedge of a certain cherry-prune-fig cake with some nice buttercream icing I saw recently.

[TitoFan]

That is the only thing that matters at this point. Wild conjectures about the cause are pointless and frankly only damaging at this point. But that doesn't stop people from doing it.

The NFL has its hands full right now, as it desperately tries to balance the sensitivity of Hamlin's injuries with the remainder of the season and the looming playoffs.

I'd hate to be in those front offices (NFL) during these times. They're bound to get criticized no matter what they decide.

just because people are questioning the cause does not mean they are not concern for this man. master posted a question asking if we are seeing more of these incidents as he must be noticing something that he felt like asking the forum. i agree wild conjectures are pointless. the question from master & my own about other possibilities of cause are far from wild conjectures & are more about reasoned discussion. you & i will never know the real cause, no matter what the media says but i for one will be keeping an eye out hoping that these incidents don't become more regular. i'm not really familiar with the workings of the nfl, could you please inform me what you are referencing there? in regards to the remainder of the season & being in the front offices. from their point of view wasn't this tragic incident just a random occurrence off a routine tackle? or are they getting flack about player safety of something? what decision are they supposed to make?

It doesn't appear we are "seeing more of these incidents." But here's a look back at other cardiac related incidents on the field of play (including other sports):


https://www.insider.com/sports-stars...-hamlin-2023-1

"Damar Hamlin isn't the first pro athlete to have cardiac arrest on the field — here are 5 other stars who collapsed while the clock was running"

From the article:

• Chuck Hughes, Detroit Lions NFL player - Collapsed without contact on the field of play in 1971 and died
• Christian Eriksen, Danish soccer player - Non-contact collapse during Euro 2020 during a game in 2021. Was revived.
• Chris Pronger, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed after hit from puck on chest during game in 1998. Made a full recovery.
• Jay Bouwmeester, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed while on bench in 2020. Was revived and later retired from the sport.
• Marc-Vivien Foé, Cameroon soccer team - Non-contact collapse during game in 2003. Could not be revived.

Also from the article:

"Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin has been hospitalized in critical condition after being treated on the field for cardiac arrest. The 24-year-old safety collapsed after a tackle during a Monday night game against the Bengals.

While the details of Hamlin's health aren't yet clear, the incident is part of a long history of athletes suffering cardiac events during competition in sports, such as football, soccer, and hockey.

Dozen of other such incidents have occurred in the past few decades, some of them fatal. While heart problems in elite athletes are rare, they can occur because of underlying conditions, including undiagnosed heart disease or genetic abnormalities, which are exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress, according to research published in 2019.

Getting hit in the chest with enough force can also disrupt the heartbeat, a condition called commotio cordis, which is also rare but can be caused by an object like a hockey puck or baseball, or contact with another player.

While pro athletes are routinely screened for medical conditions, some risks are difficult to predict or prevent, resulting in shocking and occasionally deadly mid-game medical emergencies."

"Underlying conditions"... "undiagnosed heart disease"... "genetic abnormalities". "Exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress..."

I'm going with these for the time being.

Factually-based opinions from medical professionals, whose opinions have more weight than anybody on Facebook or Twitter.



Oh... about the NFL and its decisions.

The game where Hamlin was injured was finally postponed after it was clear that none of the players were in any emotional shape to continue. The game was critical in determining playoff positioning and seeding for the beginning of playoff season a week and a half from now. The NFL has a decision to make as to whether make up this game... cancel it altogether... or push the playoffs back in order to accommodate the finishing of the game at some later date. Their decision will have ramifications on a group of teams currently fighting for playoff positioning.

The play itself where Hamlin was injured was most definitely a routine tackle, which obviously factors into the determinations being made as we speak as to the possible causes for the injury. Until more knowledgeable minds than you or I come to some sort of conclusions, the cause remains unknown. The league (NFL) meanwhile, finds itself in the unenviable position of having to delicately balance the still uncertain outcome of Hamlin's recovery, with the need to finish the season and begin the playoffs.

it could be that the media is just focusing on these incidents more currently but as i said in my original post in this thread, i have noticed several people i know who i considered young & in good health; whose health has deteriorated over the last few years. four of the guys have had heart issues. the causes of their health deterioration could be many but the one thing they have in common is that they are all covid vaccinated & boosted. now in saying that i also have friends that have been vaccinated & had booster shots who are still in good health. underlying conditions"... "undiagnosed heart disease"... "genetic abnormalities are definitely causes but it also a fact that when you mix chemicals you will get reactions. you can go with whatever you like, i'm happy to say i will never know what the cause was. cheers for the information on the nfl. i figured it was about the game being called off & affecting points & standings. the cause will always remain unknown to you & i. you will either choose to believe the conclusion presented to you or not, i'll file the information away in my mind as a definite possibility of cause but i will never know that to be true. hey look at us, having a slightly civil conversation so far. happy new year to year titofan, i hope you are successful in all your pursuits this year

It's my long held opinion that we have to be careful when we make correlations. It can be a pitfall... and after taking a course in Statistics in college I have a healthy respect for correlation studies. So mentioning that some people you know that you considered young and in good health, and have had heart issues... and making the correlation with COVID vaccines... is a bit of a slippery slope. Granted... you immediately clarified that you know other friends who have had the vaccines and are still in good health. Something to consider, of course.

IMHO it's always healthy to hold off on speculation until one has gathered enough information to make an informed, intelligent, rational opinion. And still we could be wrong.

But I'm glad we're not arguing about this particular subject, and yes... we've been having a civil conversation so far.

Thanks for the well wishes, TIC. You as well. May the coming year bring good things for you and your loved ones.

And I was happy to clear up the issue with the NFL. I can definitely understand how those who don't follow the league could be confused about certain things.

Right now I think they're going to try to finish the game at some point. Maybe eliminating the bye week that normally follows the Conference Championships and heading into the Super Bowl. It would make the most sense.

[Beanz]

I just want a nice wedge of a certain cherry-prune-fig cake with some nice buttercream icing I saw recently.

Traditional Christmas cake (fruit and booze) with Royal Icing, which is hard made with egg whites, lemon juice and glycerin. Lasts for weeks too.

[TIC]

That is the only thing that matters at this point. Wild conjectures about the cause are pointless and frankly only damaging at this point. But that doesn't stop people from doing it.

The NFL has its hands full right now, as it desperately tries to balance the sensitivity of Hamlin's injuries with the remainder of the season and the looming playoffs.

I'd hate to be in those front offices (NFL) during these times. They're bound to get criticized no matter what they decide.

just because people are questioning the cause does not mean they are not concern for this man. master posted a question asking if we are seeing more of these incidents as he must be noticing something that he felt like asking the forum. i agree wild conjectures are pointless. the question from master & my own about other possibilities of cause are far from wild conjectures & are more about reasoned discussion. you & i will never know the real cause, no matter what the media says but i for one will be keeping an eye out hoping that these incidents don't become more regular. i'm not really familiar with the workings of the nfl, could you please inform me what you are referencing there? in regards to the remainder of the season & being in the front offices. from their point of view wasn't this tragic incident just a random occurrence off a routine tackle? or are they getting flack about player safety of something? what decision are they supposed to make?

It doesn't appear we are "seeing more of these incidents." But here's a look back at other cardiac related incidents on the field of play (including other sports):


https://www.insider.com/sports-stars...-hamlin-2023-1

"Damar Hamlin isn't the first pro athlete to have cardiac arrest on the field — here are 5 other stars who collapsed while the clock was running"

From the article:

• Chuck Hughes, Detroit Lions NFL player - Collapsed without contact on the field of play in 1971 and died
• Christian Eriksen, Danish soccer player - Non-contact collapse during Euro 2020 during a game in 2021. Was revived.
• Chris Pronger, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed after hit from puck on chest during game in 1998. Made a full recovery.
• Jay Bouwmeester, NHL St. Louis Blues - Collapsed while on bench in 2020. Was revived and later retired from the sport.
• Marc-Vivien Foé, Cameroon soccer team - Non-contact collapse during game in 2003. Could not be revived.

Also from the article:

"Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin has been hospitalized in critical condition after being treated on the field for cardiac arrest. The 24-year-old safety collapsed after a tackle during a Monday night game against the Bengals.

While the details of Hamlin's health aren't yet clear, the incident is part of a long history of athletes suffering cardiac events during competition in sports, such as football, soccer, and hockey.

Dozen of other such incidents have occurred in the past few decades, some of them fatal. While heart problems in elite athletes are rare, they can occur because of underlying conditions, including undiagnosed heart disease or genetic abnormalities, which are exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress, according to research published in 2019.

Getting hit in the chest with enough force can also disrupt the heartbeat, a condition called commotio cordis, which is also rare but can be caused by an object like a hockey puck or baseball, or contact with another player.

While pro athletes are routinely screened for medical conditions, some risks are difficult to predict or prevent, resulting in shocking and occasionally deadly mid-game medical emergencies."

"Underlying conditions"... "undiagnosed heart disease"... "genetic abnormalities". "Exacerbated by intense exercise and physical stress..."

I'm going with these for the time being.

Factually-based opinions from medical professionals, whose opinions have more weight than anybody on Facebook or Twitter.



Oh... about the NFL and its decisions.

The game where Hamlin was injured was finally postponed after it was clear that none of the players were in any emotional shape to continue. The game was critical in determining playoff positioning and seeding for the beginning of playoff season a week and a half from now. The NFL has a decision to make as to whether make up this game... cancel it altogether... or push the playoffs back in order to accommodate the finishing of the game at some later date. Their decision will have ramifications on a group of teams currently fighting for playoff positioning.

The play itself where Hamlin was injured was most definitely a routine tackle, which obviously factors into the determinations being made as we speak as to the possible causes for the injury. Until more knowledgeable minds than you or I come to some sort of conclusions, the cause remains unknown. The league (NFL) meanwhile, finds itself in the unenviable position of having to delicately balance the still uncertain outcome of Hamlin's recovery, with the need to finish the season and begin the playoffs.

it could be that the media is just focusing on these incidents more currently but as i said in my original post in this thread, i have noticed several people i know who i considered young & in good health; whose health has deteriorated over the last few years. four of the guys have had heart issues. the causes of their health deterioration could be many but the one thing they have in common is that they are all covid vaccinated & boosted. now in saying that i also have friends that have been vaccinated & had booster shots who are still in good health. underlying conditions"... "undiagnosed heart disease"... "genetic abnormalities are definitely causes but it also a fact that when you mix chemicals you will get reactions. you can go with whatever you like, i'm happy to say i will never know what the cause was. cheers for the information on the nfl. i figured it was about the game being called off & affecting points & standings. the cause will always remain unknown to you & i. you will either choose to believe the conclusion presented to you or not, i'll file the information away in my mind as a definite possibility of cause but i will never know that to be true. hey look at us, having a slightly civil conversation so far. happy new year to year titofan, i hope you are successful in all your pursuits this year

It's my long held opinion that we have to be careful when we make correlations. It can be a pitfall... and after taking a course in Statistics in college I have a healthy respect for correlation studies. So mentioning that some people you know that you considered young and in good health, and have had heart issues... and making the correlation with COVID vaccines... is a bit of a slippery slope. Granted... you immediately clarified that you know other friends who have had the vaccines and are still in good health. Something to consider, of course.

IMHO it's always healthy to hold off on speculation until one has gathered enough information to make an informed, intelligent, rational opinion. And still we could be wrong.

But I'm glad we're not arguing about this particular subject, and yes... we've been having a civil conversation so far.

Thanks for the well wishes, TIC. You as well. May the coming year bring good things for you and your loved ones.

And I was happy to clear up the issue with the NFL. I can definitely understand how those who don't follow the league could be confused about certain things.

Right now I think they're going to try to finish the game at some point. Maybe eliminating the bye week that normally follows the Conference Championships and heading into the Super Bowl. It would make the most sense.

i wasn't making a correlation between their health issues & the covid vaccines just stating one commonality between them. as i said the causes for their deteriorating health could be many. i will add that most of my closest friends & family are not covid vaccinated as you probably guessed & although i can only speak for myself, my observations of those closest around me is that their health is on par with what it was pre covid if not better. i myself very rarely get sick. & again i know people that have had covid vaccines & are still healthy or healthier now. i agree on holding off on speculation, like i said you & i will never really know the true cause, information will be provided & we can choose to believe & trust what we are told. let's hope you & i can continue with the civil discussions. i'm sure you have a lot of knowledge & my opinion is we can all learn something from each other, everyone has something to offer. yeh thanks for the nfl stuff, i wasn't sure where it was in the season & what importance the games meant. in my opinion it would seem fair to reschedule/ restart the game if possible?

[NoSavingByTheBell]

I just want a nice wedge of a certain cherry-prune-fig cake with some nice buttercream icing I saw recently.

Traditional Christmas cake (fruit and booze) with Royal Icing, which is hard made with egg whites, lemon juice and glycerin. Lasts for weeks too.

I seriously have thought about that cake several times. When you say booze I'm expecting some kind of rum? Or maybe brandy? Whatever the case. I would gain 10 lbs from it. Oh, those fruits ... 🥰🥰🥰

[TitoFan]

i wasn't making a correlation between their health issues & the covid vaccines just stating one commonality between them. as i said the causes for their deteriorating health could be many. i will add that most of my closest friends & family are not covid vaccinated as you probably guessed & although i can only speak for myself, my observations of those closest around me is that their health is on par with what it was pre covid if not better. i myself very rarely get sick. & again i know people that have had covid vaccines & are still healthy or healthier now. i agree on holding off on speculation, like i said you & i will never really know the true cause, information will be provided & we can choose to believe & trust what we are told. let's hope you & i can continue with the civil discussions. i'm sure you have a lot of knowledge & my opinion is we can all learn something from each other, everyone has something to offer. yeh thanks for the nfl stuff, i wasn't sure where it was in the season & what importance the games meant. in my opinion it would seem fair to reschedule/ restart the game if possible?

You're absolutely right... we can all learn from each other. And yes... everyone has something to offer.

The NFL quandary is still going on. This is uncharted territory for everyone, and I've seen maybe half a dozen different opinions on what the league should do next. Rescheduling/ restarting the game would be ideal, as it would provide a true finish to the season, from which the team seedings and playoff positioning would then be derived. But at the same time, I've seen talking heads on TV mention the possibility that the teams involved (Bills and Bengals) might not have the "appetite" for that particular game. I'm telling you... it's one tough spot to be in. Had this occurred earlier in the season, it would've been a lot simpler. But this is practically the last week of the season, with playoff spots and seedings yet to be decided. All teams and players throughout the league are totally sympathetic with what's going on... but that could change if a team were to be ousted from the playoffs simply because the Bills-Bengals game wasn't finished.

I've seen players carted off with severe concussions or broken legs before. But for the players to have seen firsthand the resuscitation of their teammate is something completely different. I've never seen a professional football game postponed in mid-game before, save for maybe a baseball game some years ago when an earthquake hit the area of the stadium and the game was immediately called for everyone's safety.

Putting myself in players' shoes... I can't imagine all the conflicting thoughts going through their heads the next time they put on their shoulder pads and uniforms and get ready to play a game. Can't be easy.

[TitoFan]

Finally, some uplifting news.


https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/05/s...day/index.html

"Damar Hamlin’s first question after waking up was ‘did we win?’ doctor says, days after his cardiac arrest during NFL game"



"Did we win?"