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Thread: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

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    Default David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    ...Have been in the ring with Felix Trinidad. This was a disasterous move on their management's part. Reid was destroyed before he had a chance to peak and Vargas never was after that fight. Quite sad...
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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Reid cashed out and probably was the end of his career anyway as I do not think he fought again.

    Vargas was accelerated and was champion very early in his career. He was super talented and would have been bored if he had to wait for his opportunity for a world title.

    Tito hit hard at welterweight and was coming up in weight but I am sure he was the slight underdog. No one knew it was going to be a classic and take so much out of Vargas. Fernando would not have wanted to avoid or wait for Trinidad.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    ...Have been in the ring with Felix Trinidad. This was a disasterous move on their management's part. Reid was destroyed before he had a chance to peak and Vargas never was after that fight. Quite sad...
    i really liked david reid. you want to know how to throw your jab at felix trinidad?



    you throw your jab, and at the very top of your jab, you press down and push off on your front foot, and step away to your left. he won't throw a counter right hand at you and you step away from his counter left hook. its a little thing, but what a big thing a little thing like that makes.



    have any of you guys ever noticed that, whenever felix trinidad throws his left hook, his elbow always starts behind his back?
    Last edited by Yuzo; 10-17-2023 at 07:11 PM.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Time was working against Reid straight out of the Olympics with the Gold with the eye condition he had. It got increasingly worse and he was in a prime position for Tito coming into 154. He like Trinidad were fast tracked to 'stardom'. The fight with Tito was brutal and left Reid with a detached retina. The 11th round was just a horror show and you had to feel for Reid. But as with so many prior and after being crowned with a title belt...you're on the market and expected to defend big. It could have possibly been worse as I remember them trying to make a Hopkins fight.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    ...Have been in the ring with Felix Trinidad. This was a disasterous move on their management's part. Reid was destroyed before he had a chance to peak and Vargas never was after that fight. Quite sad...
    i really liked david reid. you want to know how to throw your jab at felix trinidad?



    you throw your jab, and at the very top of your jab, you press down and push off on your front foot, and step away to your left. he won't throw a counter right hand at you and you step away from his counter left hook. its a little thing, but what a big thing a little thing like that makes.



    have any of you guys ever noticed that, whenever felix trinidad throws his left hook, his elbow always starts behind his back?


    Here's an instructional video I found on the same fight and the same punches (left hook).



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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Reid won the Olympic medal when he was losing the fight and got the stoppage. He was very fortunate and blessed in many ways. Not a bad career all things considered.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    ... Have been in the ring with Felix Trinidad. This was a disastrous move on their management's part. Reid was destroyed before he had a chance to peak, and Vargas never was after that fight. Quite sad...
    Well, it's easy to say that now, but at the time many ppl thought Reid and Vargas would win.

    Trinidad was coming off a win against ODLH (a fight many thought he lost and so did I). So then he moved up to light middle to challenge Reid who was an unbeaten Olympic gold medallist (the only USA boxing gold medallist at the 96 Olympics) and he was the WBA champ and fighting on home turf.

    And in Fernando Vargas. He fought Tito in a unification bout. He was the IBF champ. Tito was the WBA. Both were undefeated, again at the time, many ppl thought Vargas had a good shot at winning.

    Honestly, I've always thought Trinidad was a bit overrated. Very good fighter. But I don't hold him up as this iconic fighter that many ppl do or that he's seen as.

    Was his power real ?

    Some say his illegal wraps were what gave him power. Tito's wraps were illegal because Felix Sr. applied tape to his knuckles and layered tape and gauze while he wrapped his knuckles; both are illegal in NYSAC rules.

    Now alone the advantages of simply adding more tape aren't substantial enough to make a fighters hand turn into a brick but when you dip the tape in ice water the tape will seize and harden. If you have layers of tape and tape on your knuckles when you dip your hand into the ice water the tape will seize up and harden making your wraps harder.

    Now there is no question as to whether Tito's wraps had tape on the knuckles and layers of tape, Tito Sr. admits that's how he wrapped his son's hands because he believes it provides more protection.

    The mystery is whether he dipped his hands into ice water to stiffen the tape.



    Size can overcome technical superiority some of the time and this worked for Tito as a WW even in the fights he was technically inferior in, his extra size and power was enough to overcome the technical superiority of some of his opponent but Tito was shown up against Winky Wright and especially Hopkins bcoz his physical superiority was taken away and it was a case of their technical skills against Tito, only one winner there.
    Last edited by Denilson3.0; 10-19-2023 at 03:11 PM.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Trinidad lost all of 3 fights in his HOF career, all to HOF fighters in their own right. The first to Bernard Hopkins, one of the best MW's in history. This after having beaten another MW champion in William Joppy. Trinidad's 2nd loss came to Winky Wright, an excellent defensive fighter, but admittedly Felix's worst loss, IMHO. His 3rd and last loss was to RJJ, at a weight Trinidad obviously didn't belong in.

    Felix beat numerous previously unbeaten fighters, numerous Olympic gold medalists, and holds at least one record of title defenses at welterweight that I know of.

    The handwrap story has been beaten to death, including in this very forum, when I first started here years ago. Nothing ever came of it. Hopkins' manager even admitted later to just playing head games with Trinidad's team in asking to have his hands rewrapped. Every state boxing commission has its own rules... and what is not permitted in New York is totally permitted in other states.

    Felix is an ATG, HOFer, and one of the most exciting fighters of his generation. People talk about Oscar De La Hoya... but Oscar benefitted from a LOT of Tito's leftovers in the ring.

    In the end... we all have our opinions. Mine is that Trinidad was one of the greatest of his generation.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Tito had unnatural power in that left hook. The impact of those punches were unreal.
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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    el feroz fought winky, bazooka & tito all within twelve months. he wanted to be the best so he fought the best
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Besides Bhop, winky and RJJ, Oscar also in the eyes of most reasonable boxing viewers outclassed Tito and quite clearly won the fight. That was a fucking robbery.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Trinidad was a good fighter. But he was also a dirty fighter
    The wicked shall die by there own wickedness.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotten Apple View Post
    Trinidad was a good fighter. But he was also a dirty fighter
    Being dirty is kind of what made him great. That's why Reid and Vargas should not have been in the ring with him, he had vastly more experience in the fight game. They were led to the slaughter.
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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    I think he was great regardless. I also don't think he was a particularly dirty fighter. I guess we all have our opinions of what a dirty fighter is.

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    Default Re: David Reid and Fernando Vargas should NOT...

    I’d say both should have been in the ring with him.

    As many have mentioned Reid had had multiple eye surgeries already. His career was at the end, it couldn’t be fixed. The detached retina was just in addition to his previous issues. He needed to get paid before he was done. So he made a fight he wasn’t good enough to win, gave a hell of a showing if I remember correctly.

    Vargas wanted all the smoke, sure he was too young but he had a high quality amateur background and was a champion. You don’t protect champions. If you’ve beaten Ike Quartey of that time you are ready for anyone, doesn’t mean you will necessarily win. Vargas had back issues later in his career as well, so probably best to fight Tito when healthy

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