Andre Ward DESERVED a Canelo fight!

[TIC]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

this is all only alleged by badou. have you got a copy of the official proposal? REALLY? You want to go there?


badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. i guess you'd be good with canelo v tank by that reasoning

at what weight division would a fight at 180 pounds be in titofan? doh. doesn't matter if canelo defended the title because he would have fought for it within the divisions weight limit

This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say.

just like miguel & sergio not fighting the biggest threat ggg as it was just not in the cards, sadly canelo v david b doesn't seem to be in the cards. david b has moved up & i think you said he's moved on, maybe you should do the same. david b's got a very good fight coming up next

emanuel navarrete says hi

you're trying to hide that you're one of the biggest casuals on here

At least try to be original.

It's clear you're at a loss for real defenses when you so shamelessly grasp at straws.

1. You revert to your modus operandi of asking for documented proof.

2. You're apparently ok with Ginger wanting to drain a cruiserweight to the bottom of the division, COMPLETE with rehydration clauses. Again... the most chickenshit move in the history of boxing.

3. You mask your fanboyism by regurgitating the labels that apply strictly to you.

Beyond sad... it's pathetic.

1, so only badou's word to go by then? nothing from canelo's side?

2, badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. the bottom of the division would be one seventy six. so you'd be okay with naoya fighting terence at jr middleweight yeh? that's the weight difference bub

3, it's clear that you are little more than a casual these days

"This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say."

where did i say i was okay with it? just stating facts that fighting at 180 is still within the cruiserweight limt. doh

[TitoFan]

I find all this convoluted speculation amusing. It's always been clear to any knowledgeable boxing fan that Cotto was never a true middleweight. I personally never supported nor defended Cotto for his ventures into middleweight. I thought his physical peak was at 154, and that's that.

Using Cotto as a comparison to somehow defend Canelo and his shenanigans is beyond laughable. I don't recall Cotto ever asking anyone to drain himself 20 pounds in order to fight for some mythical title a couple of weight divisions higher than he (Cotto) was fit to fight.

My only contribution to this thread was to say that it's laughable to say Andre Ward "deserved" a Canelo fight, when in actuality Ward was twice the boxer Canelo will ever be. That Ward was frustrating in his inactivity, and didn't fight long enough to test himself against some real challenges out there... yeah. Which is why I've never been a huge Ward fan either.

That's all.

any knowledgeable boxing fan knows miguel won the middleweight title & any knowledgeable boxing fan should want a champion to fight their biggest threat & that's that

i am not using miguel as a comparison to canelo. i am highlighting that a real huge ggg fan would call out the guys who ducked him. miguel never offered to fight someone who weighed 32 pounds more than him in their previous fights & the alleged offer to badou still would have been within the cruiserweight limits as you very well know. miguel did however request catchweights when titles were on the line, forcing fighters to weigh less than the championship limit

you also contributed this

I've always been a huge GGG fan

which lead to this current discussion. the andre v canelo fight was never really even a thing as andre was weights above canelo at those times

that is all

You can mention catchweights all you want. Doesn't change the fact that Canelo wanting to drain Badou Jack for a cruiserweight title fight is one of the most chickenshit moves in boxing history.

But don't take my word for it. Read for yourself.

https://www.boxingscene.com/badou-ja...clause--175475

"Badou Jack: I Won't Be Facing Canelo Next; They Want Fight At 180, Plus Rehydration Clause"


Drain the guy 20 pounds... PLUS... a rehydration clause. And Ginger's got the nerve to call it a cruiserweight title fight. A title he would've never defended... because Ginger is all about the trinket.

Meanwhile, Badou himself told Ginger he should fight David Benavidez.


It's telling that you should continue to defend the chickenshit moves of the most coddled fighter in boxing history.

None of the other Mexican champions before or since have ever reached for trinkets just for the sake of the damn trinkets... all sportsmanship be damned.

You're just like the other casuals of today.

this is all only alleged by badou. have you got a copy of the official proposal? REALLY? You want to go there?


badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. i guess you'd be good with canelo v tank by that reasoning

at what weight division would a fight at 180 pounds be in titofan? doh. doesn't matter if canelo defended the title because he would have fought for it within the divisions weight limit

This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say.

just like miguel & sergio not fighting the biggest threat ggg as it was just not in the cards, sadly canelo v david b doesn't seem to be in the cards. david b has moved up & i think you said he's moved on, maybe you should do the same. david b's got a very good fight coming up next

emanuel navarrete says hi

you're trying to hide that you're one of the biggest casuals on here

At least try to be original.

It's clear you're at a loss for real defenses when you so shamelessly grasp at straws.

1. You revert to your modus operandi of asking for documented proof.

2. You're apparently ok with Ginger wanting to drain a cruiserweight to the bottom of the division, COMPLETE with rehydration clauses. Again... the most chickenshit move in the history of boxing.

3. You mask your fanboyism by regurgitating the labels that apply strictly to you.

Beyond sad... it's pathetic.

1, so only badou's word to go by then? nothing from canelo's side?

2, badou weighed 32 pounds more than canelo in their previous fights. the bottom of the division would be one seventy six. so you'd be okay with naoya fighting terence at jr middleweight yeh? that's the weight difference bub

3, it's clear that you are little more than a casual these days

"This is just one of those times where all there is to say is that... IF YOU'RE OK WITH THAT... there's nothing else to say."

where did i say i was okay with it? just stating facts that fighting at 180 is still within the cruiserweight limt. doh

1. That's right.

2. No I'm not ok with Naoya fighting Bud. Why are you diverting the conversation saying something I didn't say? I'm not up on the argument buzzwords used here. But I'm sure you're using one of those. Stick to topic.

3. No. You're the casual (I'll briefly indulge your playground tit-for-tat).


Bottom line, bro. You're defending the indefensible. The most chickenshit attempt at a bogus title fight in the HISTORY OF BOXING.

In my mind, that makes you a fawning, casual fanboy. Which goes right along with your earlier fawning over basket case Instagram princess Ryan Garcia. Your kinda guy.

[TIC]

1, so just hearsay

2, the topic is you being okay with canelo fighting badou at 200 pounds, a difference of 32 pounds from their previous fights but not being okay with naoya fighting terence at jr middleweight, a difference of 32 pounds from their previous fights

3, you're a casual, all you do is bitch, bring negativity & talk about known fighters

by your reasoning naoya would be chickenshit to ask terence for a catchweight & rehydration clause (all only alleged) for a possible fight. at least canelo's request would have still been within the divisions weight limit

in my mind your lack of knowledge about the current scene from top to bottom makes you are casual. i always felt king ry was a decent prospect. the way he was dropping devin showed his potential. it's a pity he popped dirty. he's serving his ban & we'll see how he goes upon his return. he's got an exhibition first, against the guy pac just had an exhibition against & then he should officially be back in the ring. you rag on king ry but at least he's got in the ring with tank & devin so far

[TitoFan]

1, so just hearsay

2, the topic is you being okay with canelo fighting badou at 200 pounds, a difference of 32 pounds from their previous fights but not being okay with naoya fighting terence at jr middleweight, a difference of 32 pounds from their previous fights

3, you're a casual, all you do is bitch, bring negativity & talk about known fighters

by your reasoning naoya would be chickenshit to ask terence for a catchweight & rehydration clause (all only alleged) for a possible fight. at least canelo's request would have still been within the divisions weight limit

in my mind your lack of knowledge about the current scene from top to bottom makes you are casual. i always felt king ry was a decent prospect. the way he was dropping devin showed his potential. it's a pity he popped dirty. he's serving his ban & we'll see how he goes upon his return. he's got an exhibition first, against the guy pac just had an exhibition against & then he should officially be back in the ring. you rag on king ry but at least he's got in the ring with tank & devin so far

1. No. Reported news. If you want to apply your "COVID isn't real until I see the virus itself walking around in blue jeans" bullshit logic..... feel free to do so. Funny how you conveniently pick what to believe outright, but when it doesn't suit your fancy, you need proof. You're a joke.

2. The topic is me not being ok with Canelo trying to be a cruiserweight at all. Period. End of story. You can bring up Naoya vs Crawford... you can bring up Crawford vs Usyk... you can bring up AntMan vs Godzilla. Doesn't change the fact you're deflecting and inventing your own arguments. Canelo is not a fukking cruiserweight. But I'll go slower next time.

3. No. All I do is bitch and bring negativity about the overhyped fighters YOU drool over, grovel over, and worship like a teenage groupie. I don't like Ginger, of whom you apparently have life-sized posters in your bathroom.... so you cry.


What makes you a casual is your inability to distinguish between champions who have earned their lofty positions, and those who have manufactured their whole careers. It's your inability to distinguish between the champions who grind out their right to fight for championships, and those who demand them because they're pretty little princesses prancing and posing on social media.

Casual? You take it to another level.

[TIC]

1, reported news from badou? no actual copy of the proposal from team canelo? didn't think so. i don't have beliefs. i either know something or i don't. convid is claimed to be the cause of illness. i'm asking for some proof that i can verify myself that shows this claim is true

2, you are right canelo is not a cruiserweight, he is not even a light heavyweight, that is why if there was a proposal to badou a catchweight & rehydration clause would have been a good starting point. in negotiations you don't start with your best offer. did badou counter with anything? how's his career been going since that offer? you're finally getting it, canelo is not a cruiserweight, just like naoya is not a jr middleweight & 32 pounds is a huge difference in weight between their last fights. but you rag on canelo & wanted him to fight at 200 pounds but wouldn't want naoya to fight terence at jr middle which is the same weight difference. double standards as usual from you

3, i don't drool over any fighters. i think i am fair in my approach to all fighters i post about. my bathroom? you're losing the plot now

what makes you a casual is your exaggerations & your inability to drop your bias. looking at the from page of this board the only thread you have started is about oscar collazo a fighter i introduced you to, your not even casual enough to carry my jock strap

[Spicoli]

i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat. miguel & sergio aren't the only ones that ducked ggg

Well it was just never in the cards as Cotto v Canelo was being HBO targeted even prior to Canelo dusting off Kirkland and Cotto making his initial defense. And it gets lost, but Golovkin willfully accepted step aside money in order for that lead up and mega fight to take place.

It is interesting to ponder though. Let's say Golovkin is in there rather than Geale and he demolishes Cotto thus becoming champ. It could have completely changed history. Does Canelo sac up and go for the vaunted middleweight title vs Golovkin at that point because it's no longer Cotto? Or does he do the same slooow role he did, needing 4 catchweight fights over two years. If Cotto was expected to face him after just 1 middleweight/CW fight, shirley Canelo could. It would have been very interesting.

well by your reasoning then canelo v david b was just never in the cards. i'm fully aware of the eight hundred k step aside money. the step aside offer came from team miguel, it wasn't ggg's idea. if ggg refused miguel would have just dropped the belt, which basically happened anyway because miguel refused to pay the sanctioning fees. what's your excuse for sergio?

let's go back a step. if sergio fights ggg & ggg demolishes sergio thus becoming champion. it could have completely changed history. does miguel sac up & go for the vaunted middleweight title v ggg at that point? as for canelo's catchweights, one was requested of him from floyd, the alfredo & erislandy were both one pound over the jr middleweight limit & james had fought over the catchweight limit in his previous fight. sergio & miguel were expected to fight ggg but didn't, canelo did. it would have been interesting

It's not my reasoning it's what actually happened and what was always going to happen, and what all parties involved were steering to and leading fans into loud and clear. I'd say Benavidez-Canelo was much more in the cards based on oh I dunno, them actually being in the same division for years, Benavidez holding the top spot and interim and fans and media actually calling for it . Unlike Cotto-Golovkin. And what happened to that "I want the champ to fight the biggest threat" call out you speak of. Or per usual is Canelo above being called out and labeled ducker as with Cotto/Martinez.

Excuse for Sergio for what? A 39 year old Sergio with clearly knees shot to pieces would have met the exact same fate as Cotto vs Golovkin. Probably worse. And as already stated, no Cotto does not fight Golovkin in his first venture above 154 as we all know he would have been demolished, at any point. That entire middleweight/not middleweight period was bs. It was all about being able to say multi division champ. But I'll ask the question again...does Canelo go after Golovkin right off if he would have dusted Cotto, or does he need the 4 catchweights and 2 years to do that? Yep Canelo loved his catchweights. It was a running joke when people would say they're fighting at "Caneloweight" having fought 7 in roughly 3.5 years. And glad you caught the Angulo one. As it was Canelo who would/could not make the weight.

i said "i was alive & wanted the champion to fight his number one threat", your response was "Well it was just never in the cards", your words, your reasoning. you saying david b v canelo was much more in the cards is not taking into account canelo's plans. he had a contract for dmitry & then ggg three. needed surgery, took a lighter fight & was looking for the rematch with dmitry, made an offer but it was refused, leading canelo to look elsewhere. that timeline took us through to the jermell & demetrius fights. david b moved up next fight & was then given the choice to keep his light heavy or super middle interim belt & he chose light heavy, giving up the chance to form a mandatory shot. i agree david b was probably the most deserving of a shot at canelo but he wasn't canelo's biggest threat for me, that was david m. miguel was the champion & had a clear number one threat. canelo was the champion but there was no clear number one. i had been saying for years those guys should have fought each other to establish a clear number one challenger

sergio was thirty nine & had bad knees from serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray? sergio was the champion & ggg was the clear biggest threat. i guess it's only canelo who has to fight who you perceive as his biggest threat & for others it's just oh well just not in the cards. i think canelo fights ggg if he beat sergio or miguel. he fought ggg within a year of defending a jr middleweight belt. be honest about the catchweights. canelo didn't request all of them. fact is canelo was still defending a jr middleweight belt only a year before fighting ggg

Precisely. Canelo made other plans...Canelo entered into other contracts...Canelo took other lighter fight...Canelo was looking elsewhere...simply put, Canelo did many things but fighting the fighter who was arguably deemed his number one threat, well that was not his plan. A fighter can't go around boasting about being the "I can do whatever I want" champ and then blame others for the decisions he opted for.

Yeh I'm not rolling into the rabbit hole of relitigating the Martinez and Golovkin fight that never was some 15+ years ago. But yes as far as the Murray fight, basically after the Chavez fight, Martinez was clearly on a bad slide physically, had multiple surgeries and his knees were toast. And as much as I'd like to agree that Canelo would fight Golovkin if the Cotto-Golovkin fight took place (as my original scenario stated, rather than Cotto v Geale defense)...I really cannot. There's no way Canelo would have fought Golovkin right away either. As he simply did not. That's what actually happened. He stalled out and literally vacated the belt instead of fighting Golovkin and fought a welterweight in a "middleweight" defense. Took two years to get to Golovkin.

I'm completely honest about the catchweights happening. Did he or did he not have those catchweight bouts? They did actually occur, no? I never said he did or did not request them nor does it really matter tbh. Not my point. Canelo once again made his decisions, no one forced him to linger and slow roll into full middleweight. That was his chosen path.

[TIC]

canelo stepped up in weight after becoming undisputed at super middle to fight arguably the best light heavyweight, that fight also came with the ggg fight in the contract. dmitry is a lighter fight than david b? at that time david b was bouncing back from being coke out & blowing weight to lose his title, twice. his bad decisions. if he had of stayed disciplined he would have still had a title when canelo moved back to super middle to unify. david b was fighting the anthony dirrell's & david lemieux's. canelo was challenging at long time light heavyweight champion. david b can't blame others for his bad decisions

so between serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray i guess sergio v ggg was just not in the cards is the excuse

you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact

yes canelo had those catchweight fights but they were all his request. canelo fought ggg within a year of defending his jr middleweight belt, sergio & miguel chose to slow roll past ggg. that was their chosen path

[TitoFan]

but you rag on canelo & wanted him to fight at 200 pounds but wouldn't want naoya to fight terence at jr middle which is the same weight difference. double standards as usual from you

I'll dispense with your usual bullshit, because frankly it's not worth my time.

But I do need to address your serious lack of reading comprehension.

I don't want Ginger to fight Badou at ANY WEIGHT. Ginger is not a cruiserweight. Badou is not going to accommodate Ginger by draining himself 20 pounds, and then subjecting himself to rehydration clauses.

Capiche? Entiendes? Verstehen Sie mich?

Ginger is a coddled diva. Badou is a fighter.

I don't want Naoya to fight Crawford at ANY WEIGHT. You're the one that for some fukking reason keeps bringing up Naoya.

Naoya himself has never said anything about fighting Crawford.

Naoya is a fighter also... not a coddled, trinket-grabbing pussy like Ginger is.

Now, I realize you have comprehension issues.

But you should quit before your "below-zero" credibility continues sinking even lower than it already is.

[TitoFan]

But hey, listen. I've made my points.

It's not in your best interests to believe Ginger wanted to drain Badou to 180 and on top of that throw in rehydration clauses.

You don't see anything wrong with Ginger being a chickenshit, coddled, trinket-grabbing pussy.

Like a drowning man grabbing anything that floats by... you bring up Naoya, like if Inoue had actually ever verbalized wanting to drain a fighter several weight divisions above him... just so he could grab a meaningless trinket.

You take it personally that not everyone drools over Ginger like you do... and you shamelessly defend his chickenshit moves, even at the expense of what little (to no) credibility you've ever had.



But hey... you're gonna get the last word in, because that's what you do. Schoolyard style. In every fukking argument you've ever been in. Getting in the last word, or else hold your breath till you turn blue.

I don't want that on my conscience, so...

I hereby present you your Last Word 1st Place trophy.

Enjoy.

[TIC]

you're the one who keeps bringing up the alleged proposal to badou. you are right canelo is not a cruiserweight, so if a proposal was made don't you think a catchweight would be reasonable? just like if naoya offered terence a fight, don't you think a catchweight would be reasonable? as i've suggested many times & you continue to ignore, badou could have made a counter offer maybe to meet in-between, he drops 16 pounds, canelo comes up 16 for a fight at 184. like i said in negotiations you don't lead with you're best offer. was canelo coddled when he fought floyd who was considered the best fighter in the world? make sure you comprehend here, i'm not asking if canelo deserved the fight, i'm asking if canelo risked losing to floyd? no one wants naoya to fight terence, you not comprehending. the weight difference of 32 pounds is the point. you call canelo a chickenshit for allegedly asking for a catchweight for a guy 32 pounds above him but must realize it would be ridiculous for naoya to fight terence who would be 32 pounds above him. again the 32 pounds is the point, not the fighters, try to keep up yeh

i think it's reasonable for a guy 32 pounds lighter to propose a catchweight & rehydration clause as a starting point

i don't see canelo as a chickenshit, coddled, trinket-grabbing pussy because he may have proposed a catchweight & rehydration clause as a starting point for a fight against a guy 32 pounds heavier than him

naoya & terence are not my point. the 32 pounds weight difference is, please try to keep up. it's not my fault 180 is still within the division limit

are talking for everyone again? i don't drool over canelo. i give reasonable explanations. not exaggeration like yourself.

you revert to you're usual "you're gonna get the last word in" tactic as some way to avoid a response. just answer this one question: was canelo coddled when he fought floyd who was considered the best fighter in the world? make sure you comprehend here, i'm not asking if canelo deserved the fight, i'm asking if canelo risked losing to floyd? to put it simply: did canelo risk taking a loss when he fought floyd?

[TitoFan]

you're the one who keeps bringing up the alleged proposal to badou.

That's because that's my original point. That Ginger trying to drain Badou for a bogus cruiserweight title fight was a chickenshit move. Yet you comically bring up an invented scenario of Naoya challenging Crawford as an asinine counterpoint... when it has absolutely ZILCH to do with my point... and Naoya has never even made such a challenge.

so if a proposal was made don't you think a catchweight would be reasonable? just like if naoya offered terence a fight, don't you think a catchweight would be reasonable? as i've suggested many times & you continue to ignore, badou could have made a counter offer maybe to meet in-between, he drops 16 pounds, canelo comes up 16 for a fight at 184. like i said in negotiations you don't lead with you're best offer.

Blah blah blah... Don't hurt yourself with all that twisting, reaching, and convoluting. Badou told Ginger he wasn't interested. End of story. Ginger ended up with pie in his face like the trinket-grabbing pussy chickenshit he is.
Naoya?? Leave the guy alone, for heaven's sake. He's a true warrior. Mowing down opposition as he gradually moves up in weight. Not reaching two or three divisions above, seeking to drain a champion to grab a trinket.

was canelo coddled when he fought floyd who was considered the best fighter in the world? , i'm not asking if canelo deserved the fight, i'm asking if canelo risked losing to floyd?

Yes. That's one of the two miscalculations Ginger has made in his career. One was Floyd... the other was Bivol. Yes... he risked losing to Floyd. Which he did, to the point not even his biased judges could give him the decision (although his mistress judge saw it as a draw). The rest of his opponents have been coldly calculated. Marinating... clause-making... cherry-picking... judge-buying... Ginger has taken very few REAL risks in his career. He thought he could beat Floyd. He was wrong.

i don't see canelo as a chickenshit, coddled, trinket-grabbing pussy because he may have proposed a catchweight & rehydration clause as a starting point for a fight against a guy 32 pounds heavier than him

Fair enough. You're a Ginger groupie. I do, however. Very much so.

just answer this one question: was canelo coddled when he fought floyd who was considered the best fighter in the world?, i'm not asking if canelo deserved the fight, i'm asking if canelo risked losing to floyd? to put it simply: did canelo risk taking a loss when he fought floyd?

See above.

[Spicoli]

canelo stepped up in weight after becoming undisputed at super middle to fight arguably the best light heavyweight, that fight also came with the ggg fight in the contract. dmitry is a lighter fight than david b? at that time david b was bouncing back from being coke out & blowing weight to lose his title, twice. his bad decisions. if he had of stayed disciplined he would have still had a title when canelo moved back to super middle to unify. david b was fighting the anthony dirrell's & david lemieux's. canelo was challenging at long time light heavyweight champion. david b can't blame others for his bad decisions

so between serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray i guess sergio v ggg was just not in the cards is the excuse

you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact

yes canelo had those catchweight fights but they were all his request. canelo fought ggg within a year of defending his jr middleweight belt, sergio & miguel chose to slow roll past ggg. that was their chosen path

Do you intentionally twist stuff or is it a factory default setting?
You referenced Canelo "took a lighter fight & was looking for the rematch with Dmitry" to which I replied ...Canelo took other lighter fight. As in Charlo or Ryder. So clearly I was not referencing Bivol in relation to Benavidez. Aaaa batta batta batta.

"At the time (when Canelo had fought at 175 and then back for Golovkin III) David b was bouncing back from coked out and blowing weight..." blah etc. Actually no. Benavidez was fully back and taking the wbc interim title the exact month that Canelo took his L to Bivol. The 4 month suspension he served was a full 3+ years prior. After Canelo won Golovkin III, Benavidez had just defeated Plant. Canelo then opted to take on Ryder...the other less threating and beatable interim champ...and blew off #1 Benavidez. Then Canelo takes things to another level of ridiculousness and convinces his gullible fanboys that fighting a Jr middleweight in Charlo was what needed to happen and again blew off #1 Benavidez. It had become obvious and clear to all that Canelo had zero intent of being a "champion fighting his number one threat" as you initially put it.

Your quote>"you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact"

And then Canelo out divas Cotto. So what is it "I'm trying to avoid"? And yes, he was stalling out for just under 2 years until Golovkin. To the point of vacating the belt and avoiding the mandatory to buy more time . No step aside money needed, Canelo just said F that right now. Dipping his toe in having it both ways with Amir Khan and Smith ffs. Hardly building to a mega showdown right outa the gate. He was literally wearing a middleweight title and defended it. Shirly if 155 "ducker" Cotto is held to your hypothetical standards vs Golovkin and expected to be a "champion fighting his number one threat" right off, then 155 Canelo could muster up the same expectations as champ without delay. Truth is maybe Cotto and Canelo had far more in common than the fans would like to admit. Canelo should be sending him a Christmas card and forever grateful for that not really a middleweight/middleweight window that it would take him another 3 years to finally hang a legit defense W on.

[TitoFan]

Truth is maybe Cotto and Canelo had far more in common than the fans would like to admit.

Admittedly, I don't possess the ability to reconstruct some of this history like others on here.

But I'll take slight exception to this particular statement. An examination of Cotto's boxing career yields that the bulk of it was spent between the light welter, welter, and super welter divisions. Cotto's size was never suited for middle... so his three attempts at that weight were less significant in comparison. He fought a lesser version of Sergio Martinez, then fought Daniel Geale... and finally his fight against Canelo. His last two fights were at super welter. He was hardly the only boxer in history to try a weight he proved not suited for. To speak of a possible fight against middleweight great Golovkin... and then call it "ducking" when it never happened (not saying you said that)... is a ridiculous reach, as any knowledgeable boxing fan would know. I'm pretty sure Cotto never had any designs on fighting GGG. He knew his peak was at super welter.

Now let's discuss Canelo again. Pretty much the same height as Cotto... and also started pretty much at light welter and welter. (Although it's tough to ignore the parade of nondescript bums that filled out his first 20+ fights on his professional resume).

Let's stop here to make a point. Any comparison between Cotto and Canelo begin and end with the progression of their competition on their way up. ANY comparison. While Canelo fattened his early pro record with a parade of bums... Cotto followed the usual and traditional path of increasingly better opponents. Night and day.

Back to Canelo. Same height as Cotto... but carefully made his way into middle. Let it not be forgotten that he avoided Golovkin early on... saying he wasn't ready for the weight (that's where the term "marinating" was coined). Yet somehow found it suitable to jump to 164 to fight the mummy, JCC Jr. Four months later he fought GGG, and judges stole the fight from Golovkin.

No sooner was that over, than Canelo began his "hopscotching" career. Jumps up to 168 to pick off sick zebra Rocky Fielding. Then comes back to middle. Granted... his fight vs Jacobs was a rare legit victory. Then he LEAPS to light heavy to pick off the damaged and exposed Kovalev in a HUGELY questionable fight. Grabs a questionable, meaningless trinket. Why questionable? Because he scurried back down. His M.O. Settles at 168, where admittedly he's done his best work, thanks largely to a few accommodating, underachieving British opponents... who seem to lay down at Canelo's feet. Tries 175 once again... and gets embarrassed by Bivol. Even so, the judges did their very best to give Canelo the decision.

Then he drags the unfortunate Golovkin up to 168 for the very first time in his career. The 40-year old Golovkin, who everyone and their brother knows will NEVER get a decision against Canelo in Vegas.

All this... and I haven't even mentioned Canelo's attempts to fight Ilunga Makabu and later trying to fight Badou Jack for bogus cruiserweight titles. Not because Canelo wants to prove he's a legit cruiserweight champion... nor because he has any intentions of defending those titles should he win. But to collect yet another set of useless trinkets.

The more I write, the more miffed I become that Canelo can ever be compared with Cotto.

Nothing could be further from the truth. One is a dignified former champion. Who had his losses, but overall had a stellar career. The other is a coddled, manufactured, diva clown... whose latest chickenshit move has been to blatantly duck David Benavidez and be applauded for it.

[TIC]

you're the one who keeps bringing up the alleged proposal to badou.

That's because that's my original point. That Ginger trying to drain Badou for a bogus cruiserweight title fight was a chickenshit move. Yet you comically bring up an invented scenario of Naoya challenging Crawford as an asinine counterpoint... when it has absolutely ZILCH to do with my point... and Naoya has never even made such a challenge.

so if a proposal was made don't you think a catchweight would be reasonable? just like if naoya offered terence a fight, don't you think a catchweight would be reasonable? as i've suggested many times & you continue to ignore, badou could have made a counter offer maybe to meet in-between, he drops 16 pounds, canelo comes up 16 for a fight at 184. like i said in negotiations you don't lead with you're best offer.

Blah blah blah... Don't hurt yourself with all that twisting, reaching, and convoluting. Badou told Ginger he wasn't interested. End of story. Ginger ended up with pie in his face like the trinket-grabbing pussy chickenshit he is.
Naoya?? Leave the guy alone, for heaven's sake. He's a true warrior. Mowing down opposition as he gradually moves up in weight. Not reaching two or three divisions above, seeking to drain a champion to grab a trinket.

was canelo coddled when he fought floyd who was considered the best fighter in the world? , i'm not asking if canelo deserved the fight, i'm asking if canelo risked losing to floyd?

Yes. That's one of the two miscalculations Ginger has made in his career. One was Floyd... the other was Bivol. Yes... he risked losing to Floyd. Which he did, to the point not even his biased judges could give him the decision (although his mistress judge saw it as a draw). The rest of his opponents have been coldly calculated. Marinating... clause-making... cherry-picking... judge-buying... Ginger has taken very few REAL risks in his career. He thought he could beat Floyd. He was wrong.

i don't see canelo as a chickenshit, coddled, trinket-grabbing pussy because he may have proposed a catchweight & rehydration clause as a starting point for a fight against a guy 32 pounds heavier than him

Fair enough. You're a Ginger groupie. I do, however. Very much so.

just answer this one question: was canelo coddled when he fought floyd who was considered the best fighter in the world?, i'm not asking if canelo deserved the fight, i'm asking if canelo risked losing to floyd? to put it simply: did canelo risk taking a loss when he fought floyd?

See above.

a 32 pound weight difference between their last fights is not an invention. it's the same weight difference that exists between naoya & terence. like i said it's not about the names, just using them to give you a visual of the weight difference. do you not think it's reasonable for a guy 32 pounds lighter to request a catchweight & rehydration clause if a fight between the two is being proposed?

so badou wasn't interested in negotiating? fair enough. canelo has gone on to fight several times while badou's in ring career has been what? seems like the only pie is on badou's face. 32 pound weight difference between their last fights

so canelo did risk losing by fighting floyd yeh? you've contradicted yourself by saying canelo was coddled. if a fighter takes a fight where he is at risking of losing he can't be coddled

[TIC]

canelo stepped up in weight after becoming undisputed at super middle to fight arguably the best light heavyweight, that fight also came with the ggg fight in the contract. dmitry is a lighter fight than david b? at that time david b was bouncing back from being coke out & blowing weight to lose his title, twice. his bad decisions. if he had of stayed disciplined he would have still had a title when canelo moved back to super middle to unify. david b was fighting the anthony dirrell's & david lemieux's. canelo was challenging at long time light heavyweight champion. david b can't blame others for his bad decisions

so between serhiy dzinziruk to martin murray i guess sergio v ggg was just not in the cards is the excuse

you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact

yes canelo had those catchweight fights but they were all his request. canelo fought ggg within a year of defending his jr middleweight belt, sergio & miguel chose to slow roll past ggg. that was their chosen path

Do you intentionally twist stuff or is it a factory default setting?
You referenced Canelo "took a lighter fight & was looking for the rematch with Dmitry" to which I replied ...Canelo took other lighter fight. As in Charlo or Ryder. So clearly I was not referencing Bivol in relation to Benavidez. Aaaa batta batta batta.

"At the time (when Canelo had fought at 175 and then back for Golovkin III) David b was bouncing back from coked out and blowing weight..." blah etc. Actually no. Benavidez was fully back and taking the wbc interim title the exact month that Canelo took his L to Bivol. The 4 month suspension he served was a full 3+ years prior. After Canelo won Golovkin III, Benavidez had just defeated Plant. Canelo then opted to take on Ryder...the other less threating and beatable interim champ...and blew off #1 Benavidez. Then Canelo takes things to another level of ridiculousness and convinces his gullible fanboys that fighting a Jr middleweight in Charlo was what needed to happen and again blew off #1 Benavidez. It had become obvious and clear to all that Canelo had zero intent of being a "champion fighting his number one threat" as you initially put it.

Your quote>"you were the one saying that everything was gearing towards a miguel v canelo fight "hbo targeted" & "golovkin willfully accepted step aside money" & now trying to avoid that to say canelo was stalling out. canelo defended his jr middleweight belt against liam & within a year of that he fought ggg. canelo was still a jr middle until september twenty sixteen, fact"

And then Canelo out divas Cotto. So what is it "I'm trying to avoid"? And yes, he was stalling out for just under 2 years until Golovkin. To the point of vacating the belt and avoiding the mandatory to buy more time . No step aside money needed, Canelo just said F that right now. Dipping his toe in having it both ways with Amir Khan and Smith ffs. Hardly building to a mega showdown right outa the gate. He was literally wearing a middleweight title and defended it. Shirly if 155 "ducker" Cotto is held to your hypothetical standards vs Golovkin and expected to be a "champion fighting his number one threat" right off, then 155 Canelo could muster up the same expectations as champ without delay. Truth is maybe Cotto and Canelo had far more in common than the fans would like to admit. Canelo should be sending him a Christmas card and forever grateful for that not really a middleweight/middleweight window that it would take him another 3 years to finally hang a legit defense W on.

canelo took a light fight against john ryder after his surgery before pursuing the dmitry rematch, which dmitry turned down the offer. canelo was offering the rematch to dmitry. because the offer was turned down by dmitry for whatever reason jermell a fellow pbc guy like david b got the nod four months after the john ryder fight. the original target & offer was dmitry

actually yes. why was david b winning only the interim? oh that's right because his bad discipline lead to him losing his belt twice. his bad choices. david b could have held a belt when canelo moved back to super middle or david b could have been unifying with callum smith but he blew it

after the jermell fight, which i give a pass because it was put together after dmitry turned down the offer for a rematch, i agree with you that canelo should have been fighting his biggest threat, which in my opinion was david m

did miguel still hold a belt at jr middle? canelo defended that belt at that weight & within a year of that fight he fought ggg, fact