Protein, Lose or gain?

[mBiOkXe08]

Some of you on here say that working out/training and eating lots of proteins will make you lose weight, then another time, someone will ask how to gain some weight and you say the same thing. Can someone clarify this up for me? Thanks.

[AdamGB]

Gutshot can probably clear this up, he seems to know more about nutrients than me.

Before I start, protien is a nutrient used by the body for cell and tissue growth and repair. it has other functions like in starvation it is used as an energy source but it barely contains any calories compared to fat and carbohydrates.

When people say 'eat protien, gain weight' they are talking about eating a diet high in protien so that your body can build as much muscle from the stress caused by training. This also requires alot of energy though, usually from carbohydrates and some fat.

there are all sorts of 'high protien' weight loss diets around at the moment, the weight loss doesn't come from eating a high amount of protien but from changing the balance of the diet so that protien is the main energy source and carbohydrates and fat are only secondary (such as the Atkins diet).

It just comes from people chcuknig half arsed explinations around, alot of protien by itself won't build muscle and alot of protien by itself won't make you loose 'weight'. its more to do with the balance of other energy sources in your diet. Personally I don't think that High Protien diets are in the slightest bit health for you.

[mBiOkXe08]

so your saying if I am just eating good sources of protein/carbs and training hard I should be alright?

[AdamGB]

yup, don't over or under eat, consume a balanced amount of carbs and protien (carbs should be the bulk of your diet, mainly complex) and a variety of fruit and veg for vitamins and minerals and you'll be OK.

I normaly hate to quote clicky health sayings etc but '5 a day' :P make sure you get 5 varied portions of fruit and veg and you should cover the vitamins you need.

[GutShot]

morning class, please take a seat and class will begin

its good to know i've built a rep here now with training/supps and working out

the question "protein and weight change" in a nut shell

High protein/low carb diets are used for weight loss, its attatched to the unhealthy atkinds diet fad sadly.
Carbs are a high source or energy and calories especially in heavy foods such as pototoes, rice, pasta and bread.
By removing this energy source and mainly fuelling the fire by taking in high amounts of protein and fats, the body primarily burns fat, including body fat... like switching a log fire for a coal fire, it all burns but at different rates and effeciency.

However:

Potential diet danger exists for diabetics in that recommended carbohydrate intake is as low as 1/5 of the recommended minimum for diabetics.

Diabetics or those with sugar/glucose sensitivities should consult their doctor before following a dietary plan that so inadequately provides the minimum carbohydrate recommended.

One important danger relates to the excess acidity from a high protein/high fat diet (as evidenced particularly by the ketone acids produced in ketosis).

Excess acidity can lead to loss of calcium from the bones. Calcium is an alkaline mineral, and when the body experiences excess acidity, it uses what it can to restore ph balance. Consequently, there is more calcium excreted in the urine and more calcium leached out of bone tissue.

This atkins diet problem has broad, long term implications. The Cornell University site discusses this aspect of atkins diet danger which suggests that over time, calcium loss could lead to weaker bones which would increase risk of fracture.

Our teeth are made of calcium also, and aside from the fact that excess dietary acidity can actually erode teeth from acidity in the mouth, a reduction of overall calcium levels would affect the strength of teeth. These atkins diet dangers would not immediately manifest in our body, but would over time.

Metabolic acidosis, as this diet danger of excess acidity is called, also leads to a depression of the central nervous system.

Those with kidney or liver problems face potential atkins diet problems relating to the excessive load the atkins diet places on those organs. Due to the excess acidity caused by ketosis, there is extra work for the kidneys as the urinary system is the primary mechanism the body uses to deal with the ketone bodies produced.

i do not recommend low carb diets, i prefer the route of slow and steady weight loss that the heart can adapt to easily without placing the whole body under strain.
Removing carbs from veg/grains and other sources also limits the important nutritional benefits we take in as well as potential health benefits.

More on subject:

Protein is used for muscle fibre growth and reconstruction, protein itself is made up of amino acids.

For a laymans approach:

*if you want to gain muscle mass (size): you need to increase your protein intake to a minimum of 1gram per 1lb of bodyweight. To ease the strain on the kidneys you increase the water intake to a minimum of 3 litres a day.
the carbs need to be around 2-3.5g per lb of bodyweight to adequetly supply your energy needs and ensure your not working in a deficit (promoting weight loss instead of gain).
This is a common diet approach

*crash weight gain: more commonly called a bulking diet in bodybuilding, i've been on this before... jacking up the calories to 5000 a day, 400g protein a day, not carb counting and just gorging on heavy carb meals. 7 meals a day to ease the strain on the digestive system.
I gained the most amount of muscle in my life using this diet for 8 months due to my diet allowing a 100% growth environment but i also gained a lot of fat Its all part and parcel of bodybuilding...
long term diet for 6-12+ months depending on goals

* crash weight loss: after my bulking phase and 230lbs later i wanted to shed the fat to reveal what was under the whale blubber.
dropping the carbs by certain levels, raising them to trick the metabolism, lowering them and then finding a maintenance phase...
http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/duncan2.htm good example
You need to keep the protein intake high to stop the body going into a catabolic state and devouring muscle fibre for a energy source... muscle is easier to assimiltae for energy than bodyfat :P

these diets usually last for 8-12 weeks

*slow steady weight loss whilst gaining muscle This is called clean bulking, its hard to achieve as your in effect telling your body to reduce its bodyfat stores to shed the weight whilst tyring to use the energy stores to gain weight muscle wise...
YOU CANT TURN FAT CELLS INTO MUSCLE FIBRE AND VISA VERSA... ignore mother dearest when she chimes up with this

The calories are around 3000-3500 but from cleaner sources than just grabbing food of the supermarket shelf. The carbs are kept steady and the protein high, aiming for a slow and steady fat loss whilst slowly building up muscle mass.

To help out what food are good sources for muscle mass and keeping the gut, in check here is a list to help you out....

Proteins:

Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
Tuna
Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut)
Shrimp
Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)
Egg Whites or Eggs
Ribeye Steaks or Roast
Top Round Steaks or Roast (aka Stew Meat, London Broil, Stir Fry)
Top Sirloin (aka Sirloin Top Butt)
Beef Tenderloin (aka Filet, Filet Mignon)
Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
Flank Steak (Sir Fry, Fajita)
Eye of Round (Cube Meat, Stew Meat, Bottom Round , 96% LeandGround Round)
Ground turkey, Turkey Breast Slices or cutlets (fresh meat, not deli cuts)
Low-Fat or Fat-Free Cottage Cheese
Low-Fat or Fat-Free Milk
Protein Powder

Complex Carbs:

Oatmeal (Old Fashioned or Quick Oats)
Sweet Potatoes, Yams
Beans (pinto, black, kidney)
Brown Rice
Potatoes (red, new)

Fibrous Carbs:

Green Leafy Lettuce (Green Leaf, Red Leaf, Romaine)
Broccoli
Asparagus
String Beans
Spinach
Bell Peppers
Brussels Sprouts
Cauliflower
Celery
fiber one cereal

Other Produce & Fruits:

Cucumber
Green or Red Pepper
Onions
Garlic
Tomatoes
Zucchini
Fruit (if acceptable on diet): bananas, apples, grapefruit, peaches, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries
Lemons or Limes

Healthy Fats:

Olive Oil or Safflower Oil
Nuts (peanuts, almonds)
Flaxseed Oil
Fish Oil Caps

[md]

Some of you on here say that working out/training and eating lots of proteins will make you lose weight, then another time, someone will ask how to gain some weight and you say the same thing. Can someone clarify this up for me? Thanks.

Some experts agree that protein can decrease the secretion of insulin into the bloodstream. Insulin is responsible for turning excess carbs into fat. So if you don't exercise, eating a high protein diet can in theory help you lose weight (fat). If you exercise, protein is broken down and used to repair and build muscle tissue, therefore, helping you to gain weight (lean tissue).

[lightweight132]

In my anatomy class i take (my major is neurosurgeon) ive learned that your body only uses a certain amount of protein, therefore, only needs a certain amount of protein. The only way to build bigger muscles is to excercise them. All these companies selling proten shakes to people the consume 200g (example) of protein daily are making money off a misconception. As a matter of fact its not even recommended you take vitamins often those pills give you too big of a dose to consume on a daily basis. The only vitamins that are safe to take daily are water soluble ones because excess amounts are lost in urine, these include vitamin C and all vitamin B

[AdamGB]

My poinds exactly ^ you've got to be clued up about whats going in and out... other wise you either end up develping defiencys because certian nutrients require others to be metabolised etc or health problesm from excesses.

[lightweight132]

It has been proved that a high carbohydrate low fat diet can give you more stamina. Carbs are actually better for you because thay dont sit in the stomach a long time like fatty foods. They pass through your system much faster causing you to eat more which is excellent for your metabalism. Most carbs ae low in fat

[md]

It has been proved that a high carbohydrate low fat diet can give you more stamina. Carbs are actually better for you because thay dont sit in the stomach a long time like fatty foods. They pass through your system much faster causing you to eat more which is excellent for your metabalism. Most carbs ae low in fat

Yes most carbs are low in fat but it doesn't mean to say you go and eat more carbs. If you do, the excess will be converted into fat. As for a high carb low fat diet giving you more stamina, it's probably true, but not necessarily. Ultra marathon runners in cold climates eat plenty of fat because there is more energy to be had from fat. A balanced diet is the key with nutrients coming from plenty of sources.

It's true, there is a threshold in the amount of protein the body absorbs and stores but when the muscle tissue is under severe stress i.e. exercise, more amino acids are required in the diet for optimal reconstruction to occur.

Lightweight you wrote "my major is neurosurgeon" , is that for real?

[lightweight132]

It does mean for you to go out and eat more carbs and your body shouldnt get use to running off fat it should primarily run off carbs fat is a last resort.

What i suggested may not be the best and fastest way to "lose weight" but it is the best way to stay healthy and give the body what it needs.

To keep your matabolism running you shouldnt let 3 hours go by without eating something and i would recommend fruit.

Yes that is my real major

[md]

I hate nit-picking and forgive me if I'm wrong but is neurosurgery not a post-grad qualification once you've already qualified and had experience as a medic i.e. a medical doctor.

It's just, you don't write like a medic.

[lightweight132]

I not sure i understand your question


Im not a medic im still in school thats just what my goal is

[md]

Cool Lightweight, sorry we've got different terms over here in Britain for things. Good luck, I hope you make it.

[JohnnyTinx]

lightweight is probably most likely in his undergraduate studies and going for pre-med, thereafter focusing on neurosurgery, correct? Here in the states, you do 4 years of college, get an undergraduate degree, then apply for medical school, another 4 years, then you specifically study and concentrate in an area ( example: neurosurgery).

What anatomy class are you taking? human anatomy I and II? with physiology?
I'm about to graduate with a 4 year undergraduate degree in Biomedical Science, I've taken anatomy and physiology I and II, and medical physiology. I plan on going to pharmacy school if my boxing career doesn't turn up any good!