Thread: Abraham v Miranda-who won and thoughts on a rematch?

Ok,I've seen this fight 4 times,andI just want to know what you guys think.

I thought the 3 low blows were all incorrect,they were all on the beltline,and had there been 3 lowblows,isn't that a DQ?

Secondly,the fight should have been stopped because when Miranda headbutts Abraham,you can clearly see that he does NOT want to continue,the ref(one of the worst I have ever seen)forces him to or at least misinterprets what he is saying. Also,at the end of the fight when Miranda's brother comes into the ring,they together are PISSED at Arthur's corner,presumably for not stopping the fight,watch it carefully.The broken jaw was caused by punches,he did not want to continue,TKO Miranda.

Miranda landed the bigger cleaner punches and hurt Arthur a few times,although Miranda himself was buzzed the odd time too. He busted through Abrahams' tight guard,banged to the body and to be honest,I was not impressed by anything Abraham did other than his heart. His punches were WILD,wide,swings,not a great lot of thought and if you watch carefully,he missed ALOT of his punches.

In a rematch,as long as Miranda does uses his jab more and bangs to the body more,he can win this fight.He should win it!

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Ok,I've seen this fight 4 times,andI just want to know what you guys think.

I thought the 3 low blows were all incorrect,they were all on the beltline,and had there been 3 lowblows,isn't that a DQ?

Secondly,the fight should have been stopped because when Miranda headbutts Abraham,you can clearly see that he does NOT want to continue,the ref(one of the worst I have ever seen)forces him to or at least misinterprets what he is saying. Also,at the end of the fight when Miranda's brother comes into the ring,they together are PISSED at Arthur's corner,presumably for not stopping the fight,watch it carefully.The broken jaw was caused by punches,he did not want to continue,TKO Miranda.

Miranda landed the bigger cleaner punches and hurt Arthur a few times,although Miranda himself was buzzed the odd time too. He busted through Abrahams' tight guard,banged to the body and to be honest,I was not impressed by anything Abraham did other than his heart. His punches were WILD,wide,swings,not a great lot of thought and if you watch carefully,he missed ALOT of his punches.

In a rematch,as long as Miranda does uses his jab more and bangs to the body more,he can win this fight.He should win it!

We in a 100% agreement El G Cool Click El G .. first off the ref was snuff queen, and should never be allowed to ref another fight again, never seen such piss poor refereeing.... Abraham spent 80% of his time in reverse,. Miranda was doing an old fashioned tap dance on that Abraham snatch box ! Like the ole saying goes pictures are worth a thousand words ! If you take away the half a dozen bullshit point deductions and you have Miranda winning that fight by 4 5 rounds easy !

also notice all the fouls Abraham is doing during the fight, and he is never even warned much less have any points takin away... it was an ugly fight to watch.. both guys fought like assholes.

Well for me this was the most exciting fight of 2006, I winced the entire way through it.

Regarding who would win a rematch I'm completely torn.

On the one hand you could argue that Miranda's power was so strong that he busted Abrahams jaw apart and just practically killed him.

On the other hand you could argue that despite one of the worst injuries any boxer has had to overcome in the ring, and with 20% blood loss Miranda still couldnt get Abraham out of there and that in fact his power is overated.

I'm completely torn in either direction to be honest. If Abraham hadn't suffered that appalling injury would he won a much easier decision? Should Abraham have been forced to retire in the 5th round when the injury occured? Did Miranda deserve any of those point deductions? Was Abraham saved by the 5 minute rest the referee gave him in the penultimate round?

There's so many questions and so many different ways of looking at this fight that a rematch simply has to happen.

Aside from Mayweather De La Hoya, I can't think of many more intriuging and potentially fight of the year caliber fights than a rematch between these guys.

CC's back guys. Glad you agree LG. Bilbo,although I understand the variables you mention,you have to remember,Abraham was missing ALOT of punches,they were just wild,telegraphed swings,it was only due to the partisan crowd that they got any attention. I agree,it was a brutal fight but I can see Miranda busting him up again.

Originally Posted by El Gamo

CC's back guys. Glad you agree LG. Bilbo,although I understand the variables you mention,you have to remember,Abraham was missing ALOT of punches,they were just wild,telegraphed swings,it was only due to the partisan crowd that they got any attention. I agree,it was a brutal fight but I can see Miranda busting him up again.

I kind of agree but I watched a foreign broadcast and so was completely unaffected by any commentator bias and I thought Abraham did just enough to win, even had Miranda not had those 3 or 5 points deducted, however many it was.

He has Miranda hurt at times especially early in the fight.

I'm really looking forward to these two getting it on again, should be a cracker.

I don't think he hurt Miranda THAT much,just a few times here and there.Sometimes it looked like he hurt him but replays showed Miranda was either backing up dodging or the camera angle made it look as if he was landing. I think Eastman hurt Miranda more.

I was NOT impressed with Abraham at all apart from his heart/being forced to continue. His pucnhes were wild,his defence was ok but not good enough as he got his jaw broken and Miranda had ample oppertunity to bang to the body. I was actually surprised Miranda did not ko him.

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Ok,I've seen this fight 4 times,andI just want to know what you guys think.

I thought the 3 low blows were all incorrect,they were all on the beltline,and had there been 3 lowblows,isn't that a DQ?

Secondly,the fight should have been stopped because when Miranda headbutts Abraham,you can clearly see that he does NOT want to continue,the ref(one of the worst I have ever seen)forces him to or at least misinterprets what he is saying. Also,at the end of the fight when Miranda's brother comes into the ring,they together are PISSED at Arthur's corner,presumably for not stopping the fight,watch it carefully.The broken jaw was caused by punches,he did not want to continue,TKO Miranda.

Miranda landed the bigger cleaner punches and hurt Arthur a few times,although Miranda himself was buzzed the odd time too. He busted through Abrahams' tight guard,banged to the body and to be honest,I was not impressed by anything Abraham did other than his heart. His punches were WILD,wide,swings,not a great lot of thought and if you watch carefully,he missed ALOT of his punches.

In a rematch,as long as Miranda does uses his jab more and bangs to the body more,he can win this fight.He should win it!

I agree pretty much on everything, but I could go on forever with other crazy things that happened, especially since I was there.
The one thing you point out that most people did not realize is that Abraham DID miss a lot of close punches. Miranda had that nasty long hair for this fight and he jerks back to avoid punches. Many times Miranda was moving his head nicely and blocking punches, but it appears that Abraham is connecting since Miranda's hair is flopping all around.
And man, the crowd there was insane. Everytime Abraham throws a punch they went fwucking wild! Kept chanting the whole fight "Arthur, Arthur, Arthur". Very very hostle crowd. Unlike anything I have ever witnessed in the USA. I think the judges would have been shot if they gave the fight to Miranda!

As a matter of fact, when Miranda left the ring and walked back to the dressing room people were throwing things at him from the crowd. Imagine what would have happened if he KO'd Abraham!

CC back Pantera and I owe you an apology,before the fight,I thought Abraham would win EASILY and kind of dismissed Miranda and any arguments you made for him but since then,I've seen 6 of his fights and learnt more about him,I didn't know about his childhood and stuff. I am officially a fan now!

Why were they throwing things? You hear/see any racists?And indeed I agree,the jusges would have been killed,and I think Miranda was a very very brave fighter for taking the fight and he did not seemed fazed by the crowd at all! Did you fly out to see the fight?!

And dam right,Miranda needs a nice hair cut!!!

Originally Posted by El Gamo

CC back Pantera and I owe you an apology,before the fight,I thought Abraham would win EASILY and kind of dismissed Miranda and any arguments you made for him but since then,I've seen 6 of his fights and learnt more about him,I didn't know about his childhood and stuff. I am officially a fan now!

Why were they throwing things? You hear/see any racists?And indeed I agree,the jusges would have been killed,and I think Miranda was a very very brave fighter for taking the fight and he did not seemed fazed by the crowd at all! Did you fly out to see the fight?!

And dam right,Miranda needs a nice hair cut!!!

The fight was in Wetzlar, a small town that was once run by the Jews. During the War it was destroyed by the Nazi's. Like many small towns who do not have the exposure of tourism, a lot of the 'old' ways still run strong in the local's blood. So yes, I did see racism in the town when Miranda was walking the streets. Nothing direct but some strange looks. And to honest with you, I never saw another black person in Wetzlar and only a handful through most of Germany. Some of the more friendly people told us about the town and that many of the people there do not like Jews or blacks.

At the fight, there was not one fan of Miranda. People were yelling and screaming things, but being all in German I understood nothing. I can only assume they threw things since the ref made Miranda look so dirty in the fight and they probably blamed that on why their Abraham hero got so destroyed. And you really have to understand Edison to know why he was so unfazed. I really do not think the fear that most people have exists in his body. He has been through so much in his life and has a strong belief in God. He feels that God has a purpose for him and there is nothing that he will ever do that will give him a feeling of fear. Even right after the fight, Miranda had a big smile on his face and pointed to the sky as if to say, "Don't be upset. God has a purpose for me." He really is a good person. He just has a great sense of humor and likes to speak. Sometimes after the interpretation, he comes off sounding too strong. But he really is just trying to have fun and sell the fight!

Here is a pic of Miranda right after the fight with Abraham. You can see the big smile on his face. You would never guess he just got the Middle weight belt stolen away from him! Oh, and yea. He got a haircut right after the fight as you can see against Gibbs.

...............

Personally...I thought that Abraham won the fight.

I watched this fight 4 times & saw it 6 different ways from Sunday regarding the points loss & the lowblows...the headbutt was clearly out of frustration & I was disgusted with the ref...mainly that he did not DQ Miranda...but more over the 5 minutes (I think it was actually 2 on Abraham's account) after the headbutt & broken jaw.

Abraham hurt Miranda...I'm sorry...he did. Miranda was on queer street twice...but recovered & Abraham was almost out & broken apart...but went on.

Not sure how a rematch goes...I just aint.

It depends on what's mentally there for Abraham.

If Abraham comes in scared, Miranda TKO's him.

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Personally...I thought that Abraham won the fight.

I watched this fight 4 times & saw it 6 different ways from Sunday regarding the points loss & the lowblows...the headbutt was clearly out of frustration & I was disgusted with the ref...mainly that he did not DQ Miranda...but more over the 5 minutes (I think it was actually 2 on Abraham's account) after the headbutt & broken jaw.

Abraham hurt Miranda...I'm sorry...he did. Miranda was on queer street twice...but recovered & Abraham was almost out & broken apart...but went on.

Not sure how a rematch goes...I just aint.

It depends on what's mentally there for Abraham.

If Abraham comes in scared, Miranda TKO's him.

You make a good point ! I favor Miranda in a rematch , I feel he won it the first time . but your right about that head butt.. it didn’t do anything to Abraham , but it was flagrant non the less. And that kind of of B.S. is no good for boxing. CC#2537

Originally Posted by Lords Gym

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Personally...I thought that Abraham won the fight.

I watched this fight 4 times & saw it 6 different ways from Sunday regarding the points loss & the lowblows...the headbutt was clearly out of frustration & I was disgusted with the ref...mainly that he did not DQ Miranda...but more over the 5 minutes (I think it was actually 2 on Abraham's account) after the headbutt & broken jaw.

Abraham hurt Miranda...I'm sorry...he did. Miranda was on queer street twice...but recovered & Abraham was almost out & broken apart...but went on.

Not sure how a rematch goes...I just aint.

It depends on what's mentally there for Abraham.

If Abraham comes in scared, Miranda TKO's him.

You make a good point ! I favor Miranda in a rematch , I feel he won it the first time . but your right about that head butt.. it didn’t do anything to Abraham , but it was flagrant non the less. And that kind of of B.S. is no good for boxing. CC#2537

right back.

I still aint sure who I'd pick for the rematch.

Originally Posted by Lords Gym

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Personally...I thought that Abraham won the fight.

I watched this fight 4 times & saw it 6 different ways from Sunday regarding the points loss & the lowblows...the headbutt was clearly out of frustration & I was disgusted with the ref...mainly that he did not DQ Miranda...but more over the 5 minutes (I think it was actually 2 on Abraham's account) after the headbutt & broken jaw.

Abraham hurt Miranda...I'm sorry...he did. Miranda was on queer street twice...but recovered & Abraham was almost out & broken apart...but went on.

Not sure how a rematch goes...I just aint.

It depends on what's mentally there for Abraham.

If Abraham comes in scared, Miranda TKO's him.

You make a good point ! I favor Miranda in a rematch , I feel he won it the first time . but your right about that head butt.. it didn’t do anything to Abraham , but it was flagrant non the less. And that kind of of B.S. is no good for boxing. CC#2537

It was a stupid move. But it was by no means hard or meant to hurt Abraham. It was purely out of frustration that Abraham kept clinching and the ref would let him get away with it. He was just trying to give him a little "get the fuck off of me already" tap!