Thread: Valuev's record BETTER? than Marciano's??

Could it be? ...Naw....ridiculous......or is it??

It's very hard to compare records of old time boxers to modern boxers
Things are very different today.
Old time fighters fought as a job. Except for a select few, Low pay per fight.
This meant that for a guy to be a professional he had to fight lots!
every month to put food on the table. On the average about
2- 3 times as much as a modern fighters.
Most guys had regular day jobs and fought on the side. Few professional trainers, no TV revenue etc.

Can any meaningful numbers crunching be done to create some kind of statistical comparison?

Part of the problem is that some of their opponents records are not available. Marciano's due to age and Valuev's due to the collapse and disorganisation in Russion sports at the start of his career.
Also.
The first fights in a fighters career are most often against easy fighters so that the fighter can develop skill and build confidence and as such are not a genuine "test" of his ability and really add nothing to his record as far as legitimacy goes.

Marciano has a couple and Valuev about 5 opponents who's records are unknown and appear as 0-0-0

Let's look at each fighters last say..25 fights..a time when they should be well into decent "real" fights

Marciano's last 25 opponents had a combined record of

1164 Wins 332 Losses 68 Draws

That gives a Win/fight ratio of 74.42%


Valuev's last 25 opponents have a combined record of

539 Wins 103 Losses and 19 Draws

For a Win/Fight ratio of 81.54%


Also as for which of the 2 groups would be/have been harder to beat and maintain a undefeated record against?

Marciano's last 25 guys had 332 losses or an average of 13.28 per fighter

Valuev's have 103 losses or an average of only 4.12 losses per fighter


For their last 10 fights?

Marciano 114 Losses 11.4 per fighter
Valuev 26 Losses 2.6 per fighter

Conclusion? The guys that Marciano built his record on DID WORSE
against the fighters of his day, than Valuev's opponents have done against modern day fighters

IE Valuev has fought a better caliber of fighers

81.5% win ratio vs 74.4% win ratio


Thoughts??
Please,...Do try and post intelligent and logical arguments and comments, not broad sweeping statements like "all fighters today suck" or other such nonsense


P.S. just for fun..
Here's a pic of Valuev vs John Ruiz who is 6'2 1/2" and weighs 240
Marciano was 5'10" and 190 and as you can see had thick legs.

Never ever compare them.....especially since Valuev hasn't fought any top teir heavyweights....EVER



Rocky fought EVERYONE in his era...he ducked no one


Valuev ducks EVERYONE

some one is really starting to sound obsess over the big guy.

I was getting bored so I started a post.
I have noticed how Google images used to have 2 pages of images under Valuev,then 4 then 10 now like 25.
Public intrest is spreading

I would like comments on the statistical analysis.....oh..oh..
Lyle gets a chubby whenever he reads that word,,It has the word anal in it

Win percentage does not mean anything. Rocky fought top tier contenders. Granted it wasn't the strongest bunch but they were the top dog's nonetheless.

Just stop.

Valuev record ain't even as good as Brian Nielsen, who also got to 49-0 before getting knocked out.

[quote=landmine950 ]
I was getting bored so I started a post.
I have noticed how Google images used to have 2 pages of images under Valuev
then 4 then 10 now like 25[quote] I bet your the only one

Originally Posted by landmine950

I was getting bored so I started a post.
I have noticed how Google images used to have 2 pages of images under Valuev,then 4 then 10 now like 25.
Public intrest is spreading

I would like comments on the statistical analysis.....oh..oh..
Lyle gets a chubby whenever he reads that word,,It has the word anal in it

Have you anything to say about the fact that Valuev has fought 23 fighters with only 10 total fights?

and the fact that only 36 of the 46 guys he fought have winning records

and the fact that 6 of the 46 guys he fought had never won a fight?





..........yeah he's a great one that big unfrozen caveman

If you list the guys that Valuev has fought.
And then the other top guys who have also fought them,
In other words they were good enough to be considered legitimate competition for other guys to build records on.
You'll end up with a list of EVERY name fighter out there.
These guys were good enough for other fighters to build records on.
But when Valuev fights them those victories become meaningless?
Explain that to me If its more than just Hater's logic!

Here's a list and who they fought

McCline Brock,Byrd,Briggs,Grant & Wlad Klitschko
Barrett Rahman,Guinn,Mesi & Wlad Klitschko
Beck Austin,Barrett
Ruiz Chagaev,Toney,Golota,Evander...everyone
Donald Austin,Evander & Vitali Klitschko
Ettienne Brock,Tyson,Botha
Levin Williams,Austin
Nobles Seldon,Fields
Vidoz Virchis
Bango Povetkin
Dominguez Moli (fought Wlad)
Ryan Briggs & Vitali Klitschko
Tisdale Clay Bey,Moorer,Guinn & Saunders (remember him?)
Mirovic Sinan Samil Sam,Okhello,Skelton,williams,Meehan


Thats the last 14! Argue those names away! I see the Klitschkos also seems to have fought quite a few of them,both "duckers" too I guess..



Hey Kids! get used to the MARCIANO comparisons..
a couple more wins and it's all everyone will be talking about!

valuevs good but not great, maybe he can be great if he knocks out the klitchko brothers and if lewis comes back and valuevs knocks him out too...

too bad though the heavyweight division don't have much great fighters, so its a slim chance valuev reaches greatness due to lack of great oppenents.

if he gets to 50-0...without fighting either of the klichko brothers, then its a bigger let down.

Originally Posted by BoxingGod

valuevs good but not great, maybe he can be great if he knocks out the klitchko brothers and if lewis comes back and valuevs knocks him out too...

too bad though the heavyweight division don't have much great fighters, so its a slim chance valuev reaches greatness due to lack of great oppenents.

if he gets to 50-0...without fighting either of the klichko brothers, then its a bigger let down.

not bad when your even speaking about the ape.....he should be fighting gorilas in the jungle...he aint even good AT ALL

How about fighting one of the Klitschkos for the 49-0?
Big hype, Big interest and a no lose for boxing either way.
Maybe get one of the other titles before and Klitschko does the same to make a 4 belt unification belt as well!!!
I wouldn't care who wins! It would be sweeeettt!!!

Originally Posted by landmine950

Could it be? ...Naw....ridiculous......or is it??

It's very hard to compare records of old time boxers to modern boxers
Things are very different today.
Old time fighters fought as a job. Except for a select few, Low pay per fight.
This meant that for a guy to be a professional he had to fight lots!
every month to put food on the table. On the average about
2- 3 times as much as a modern fighters.
Most guys had regular day jobs and fought on the side. Few professional trainers, no TV revenue etc.

Can any meaningful numbers crunching be done to create some kind of statistical comparison?

Part of the problem is that some of their opponents records are not available. Marciano's due to age and Valuev's due to the collapse and disorganisation in Russion sports at the start of his career.
Also.
The first fights in a fighters career are most often against easy fighters so that the fighter can develop skill and build confidence and as such are not a genuine "test" of his ability and really add nothing to his record as far as legitimacy goes.

Marciano has a couple and Valuev about 5 opponents who's records are unknown and appear as 0-0-0

Let's look at each fighters last say..25 fights..a time when they should be well into decent "real" fights

Marciano's last 25 opponents had a combined record of

1164 Wins 332 Losses 68 Draws

That gives a Win/fight ratio of 74.42%


Valuev's last 25 opponents have a combined record of

539 Wins 103 Losses and 19 Draws

For a Win/Fight ratio of 81.54%


Also as for which of the 2 groups would be/have been harder to beat and maintain a undefeated record against?

Marciano's last 25 guys had 332 losses or an average of 13.28 per fighter

Valuev's have 103 losses or an average of only 4.12 losses per fighter


For their last 10 fights?

Marciano 114 Losses 11.4 per fighter
Valuev 26 Losses 2.6 per fighter

Conclusion? The guys that Marciano built his record on DID WORSE
against the fighters of his day, than Valuev's opponents have done against modern day fighters

IE Valuev has fought a better caliber of fighers

81.5% win ratio vs 74.4% win ratio


Thoughts??
Please,...Do try and post intelligent and logical arguments and comments, not broad sweeping statements like "all fighters today suck" or other such nonsense


P.S. just for fun..
Here's a pic of Valuev vs John Ruiz who is 6'2 1/2" and weighs 240
Marciano was 5'10" and 190 and as you can see had thick legs.

For the statistical analysis, which is interesting in and of itself. However, these stats are a bit deceptive. Almost all of Valuev's fights have taken place overseas in Germany and Russia. Many of the fighters on his resume are suspect just because they fought in protected environments and have been shielded from proper high-tier competition.
That being said, Marciano fought and beat American fighters with much more ring experience. Even in light of their losses, Valuev's career has been mainly bolstered by fighting relatively inexperienced Euro-Bums. The fact of the matter is that he hasn't impressed thusfar and making a comparison between him and Marciano is a bit of a stretch to say the least. Statistical analysis doesn't always show the entire story.

I agree with the stats part..I do it cuz I find it interesting.

Of course the guy will have had most of his fights in his home country.
And at first he wouldn't be out looking for world beaters, and germany is a hot spot for boxing in Europe as well.
BUT the guy has been around, thats one of the things i kinda liked about him.
Not as bad as like the Argentinian guys at 30-0 who only fought Argentinians in Argentina

Take a look!
Russia 16
germany 14
Australia 4
USA 3
japan 2
england 2
Czech republic 2
Ukraine 1
Korea 1
Switzerland 1
Belarus 1


As for the bums? what about the last 14 guys I listed? All bums?
if they are then thats what EVERYONE in the div is fighting!