Thread: When

Originally Posted by Scrap

Sean It may seem that way, but a lot has to do with psyhcodynamics plus muscle memory. There comes a time when youre not what you think you are, and sometimes it happens when you least expect it and the motor units dont respond you stop motoring, its there to see. But we dont see the wood for the trees.

CC scrap ! enjoyed that immensely ! I agree , the truth has a bit of sting to it ! It helps if you carry a punch as well as take one . , you can still make some things happen on plain resolve alone as long as you can bring the hammer down at some point in the match , and as long as the tires you have on the vehicle match the terrain your going up against. ,

Such an honor to read your post and get your insight mate , ! ,

Originally Posted by Fenster

Does your physical peak and mental peak go hand in hand?

No, generally it doesn't, not just in boxing but in all sports.

And this is always one of the great things about watching sports. Watching an old athlete who can't physically do the things he used to, but can get by with all the tricks of the trade that's he's learned over the years.

Fens and sweet What youre touching on is psyhcodynamics which will control the central nervous system through memory. Bad memory less desire, the body works all or nothing through the messages sent through and from the oral cavity hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Scrap

Sean It may seem that way, but a lot has to do with psyhcodynamics plus muscle memory. There comes a time when youre not what you think you are, and sometimes it happens when you least expect it and the motor units dont respond you stop motoring, its there to see. But we dont see the wood for the trees.

Are you disagreeing that I fighter can take a loss in the middle of their prime or that fighters give compelling/great performances after they are a bit past it? Clearly, there comes a point when the mind is willing but the body just won't respond at all

Of course, often we can't see the forest for the trees. Two recent fights come to mind - Toney-Peter 2 and Moralles-Pac 3. I'm not equating most compelling performances with best/most complete performances. Like SweetPea was saying, sometimes, what makes a performance memorable/great/classic in fan's eyes is seeing a fighter pushed to the brink and overcoming. Seeing flashes of the old brilliance or using better mental strategy to win - Ali-Foreman for example. Duran was way, way past it against Barkley, but it sure was a great, compelling win. It wasn't Duran at his peak, but it was a significant win, and to me, fights like that, when a guy beats a good fighter when they are way past it, are one indicator that a guy is an alltime great.

Originally Posted by Scrap

Fens and sweet What youre touching on is psyhcodynamics which will control the central nervous system through memory. Bad memory less desire, the body works all or nothing through the messages sent through and from the oral cavity hope this helps.

excellent

sean good point but the good days get less even with good camps and the bad ones get more.As you mention it seems to happen with great fighters way past there best and we love it. Thats why we love them its called spirit attitude, they understand there own dynamic self something us mere mortals dream about they are a different breed, but eventually no matter what theres a price to pay.

Originally Posted by Lords Gym

Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Apply this to Mike Tyson and you might just

Did he ever have a greatest win?

I think its easy for people to discredit Mike Tyson now days because a lot of the younger generation don’t remember the Mike Tyson that counted. Tyson peaked very early because of circumstance he created himself. I would say that Mike peaked out vs Trevor Burbick fight. 1986 . He would continue to win impressive fights for several years thereafter but something was starting to happen.. A fighter like Mike needs to fight often and be in the gym a lot. In 1986 Mike fought roughly 13 fights that year ! Tyson was working out religiously and spending every moment training . He enjoyed the family environment around him , something that he had never had as a kid . Mike benefited from the discipline of the father figure Cuz.. And after his death in 85 a trend would start taking place.

In 87 Mike had 5 fights and in 88 he had 3 fights, and so on.. Less activity and no discipline equals loss. but you go back and take that quality Mike of 86 and put him in with anyone of the all time greats . and he could come out on top just as easy as anyone in history matched up against him in their prime . Guaranteed !

disagree you do forget his fights with tillis and tucker tyson was good but your seriously telling me he would beat ali prime foreman prime holmes and all others ?? i very much doubt that yea i may have not been in tyson era but from what i gathered tyson was good fighter but is so overrated to the point where it gets unreal

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Lords Gym

Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Apply this to Mike Tyson and you might just

Did he ever have a greatest win?

I think its easy for people to discredit Mike Tyson now days because a lot of the younger generation don’t remember the Mike Tyson that counted. Tyson peaked very early because of circumstance he created himself. I would say that Mike peaked out vs Trevor Burbick fight. 1986 . He would continue to win impressive fights for several years thereafter but something was starting to happen.. A fighter like Mike needs to fight often and be in the gym a lot. In 1986 Mike fought roughly 13 fights that year ! Tyson was working out religiously and spending every moment training . He enjoyed the family environment around him , something that he had never had as a kid . Mike benefited from the discipline of the father figure Cuz.. And after his death in 85 a trend would start taking place.

In 87 Mike had 5 fights and in 88 he had 3 fights, and so on.. Less activity and no discipline equals loss. but you go back and take that quality Mike of 86 and put him in with anyone of the all time greats . and he could come out on top just as easy as anyone in history matched up against him in their prime . Guaranteed !

disagree you do forget his fights with tillis and tucker tyson was good but your seriously telling me he would beat ali prime foreman prime holmes and all others ?? i very much doubt that yea i may have not been in tyson era but from what i gathered tyson was good fighter but is so overrated to the point where it gets unreal

Not saying he would mate , I am saying he could ! He could win just as easy as those guys . Tyson at this point in time. 85- 86.. He had a support system in place that gave him that confidence and determination to win and see it through to the end . The support system and desire to train religiously. yeah Mike was fucking GREAT once upon a time ! go back and watch his fights back in85 and in 86 13 fights that year ! that’s amazing in itself , that kind of work rate was what was needed to keep him sharp, because he had lazy tendencies and needed people around him that would jump his ass, in 86 Mike had cat like reflexes, look at the leverage with which he throws punches, his feet and balance, his awareness was amazing . and most importantly the family environment in his camp ! after that was dismantled he turned to shit no doubt ! If you look around you still have lots of people that think Tyson was still at his peak when he fought Douglas.. he was so far removed from his prime its unreal !

Originally Posted by Lords Gym

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Lords Gym

Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Apply this to Mike Tyson and you might just

Did he ever have a greatest win?

I think its easy for people to discredit Mike Tyson now days because a lot of the younger generation don’t remember the Mike Tyson that counted. Tyson peaked very early because of circumstance he created himself. I would say that Mike peaked out vs Trevor Burbick fight. 1986 . He would continue to win impressive fights for several years thereafter but something was starting to happen.. A fighter like Mike needs to fight often and be in the gym a lot. In 1986 Mike fought roughly 13 fights that year ! Tyson was working out religiously and spending every moment training . He enjoyed the family environment around him , something that he had never had as a kid . Mike benefited from the discipline of the father figure Cuz.. And after his death in 85 a trend would start taking place.

In 87 Mike had 5 fights and in 88 he had 3 fights, and so on.. Less activity and no discipline equals loss. but you go back and take that quality Mike of 86 and put him in with anyone of the all time greats . and he could come out on top just as easy as anyone in history matched up against him in their prime . Guaranteed !

disagree you do forget his fights with tillis and tucker tyson was good but your seriously telling me he would beat ali prime foreman prime holmes and all others ?? i very much doubt that yea i may have not been in tyson era but from what i gathered tyson was good fighter but is so overrated to the point where it gets unreal

Not saying he would mate , I am saying he could ! He could win just as easy as those guys . Tyson at this point in time. 85- 86.. He had a support system in place that gave him that confidence and determination to win and see it through to the end . The support system and desire to train religiously. yeah Mike was F****** GREAT once upon a time ! go back and watch his fights back in 85 and in 86 13 fights that year ! that’s amazing in itself , that kind of work rate was what was needed to keep him sharp, because he had lazy tendencies and needed people around him that would jump his a**, in 86 Mike had cat like reflexes, look at the leverage with which he throws punches, his feet and balance, his awareness was amazing . and most importantly the family environment in his camp ! after that was dismantled he turned to S*** no doubt ! If you look around you still have lots of people that think Tyson was still at his peak when he fought Douglas.. he was so far removed from his prime its unreal !

good statement cc

Originally Posted by SweetPea

Originally Posted by Fenster

Does your physical peak and mental peak go hand in hand?

No, generally it doesn't, not just in boxing but in all sports.

And this is always one of the great things about watching sports. Watching an old athlete who can't physically do the things he used to, but can get by with all the tricks of the trade that's he's learned over the years.

As I read this SweetPea I sware I picture Kirk Gibby limping to the mount.....
(And I'm a A's fan )
Very well said SweetPea....

cc # 857 Ice Cold . the funny thing is, and I am guilty of saying this statement. " I have benefited for the time off, away from boxing" the truth is, That statement is a LIE...the only benefit from time off is healing an injury, but that the only benefit ! in reality time off hurts your boxing career, I don't care who you are , activity is the key to success. having a fight always scheduled keeps you focused, keeps you maintaining good habits, and give you something to look forward too, it keeps you razor sharp skill wise, keeps you in the gym . Time off dulls the blade tremendously, and as the years go by that blade gets harder and harder to sharpen.

When I first saw Mike Tyson Id been in the game 30 years Ive never been excited as much seeing a fighter for the first time before or since, True what Lords says about the history if hed have gone with the good guys.A mate of mine is doing Tysons official Biograthey he tells me its the truth the whole truth should be intereting, its out May I think cc Lords

Originally Posted by Scrap

When I first saw Mike Tyson Id been in the game 30 years Ive never been excited as much seeing a fighter for the first time before or since, True what Lords says about the history if hed have gone with the good guys.A mate of mine is doing Tysons official Biograthey he tells me its the truth the whole truth should be intereting, its out May I think cc Lords

sounds like a great read ! I look forward to it ! cc in 24

Sean another one came to mind, Archie Moor was well past his prime having his best wins, But the fighters later were not as good as the ones he boxed at his peak

So Scrap

you're saying

ALL fighters are in their prime at a certain age. At this age GOOD MATCHMAKING keeps them unbeaten. When beaten they are CLEARLY past their prime. But will continue to pull off BIG wins if matched with the right opponents...

So you might as well say PRIME is irrelevant, no? All that matters is matching the right fighters at the right time?