Thread: Cassius Clay vs Sonny Liston

Ali fought top contenders like Cooper in London. If Floyd could fight an amateur fighting his first professional fight then the bar was not high to be a top contender.

Remember seeing Patterson v Liston 2 and they introduced the number 1 contender which was Ali and he walked into the ring and acknowledged Floyd but not Liston.

~ The Avoid List ~

Presented to you, by the people {The Louisville Sponsoring Group} who brought you Cassius Clay.

~ 1962 and 1963 ~

* A rematch with over-blown Light-Heavyweight - Alonzo Johnson, slated for Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. {No way, no how}.

* A rematch with 'lanky string-bean' - Billy 'The Barber' Daniels. {That won't happen}

* Avoid at all costs ....... Eddie Machen {This would be a foolish choice for now. Eddie is still too slick.}

* Stay away from Ernie 'The Tentacle' Terrell, who 'lumped up' Cassius in a 1962 sparring-session. {No Chance}

* Take no chances with Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams. {Too big a Risk with that left-hook.}

* Zora Folley, is too dangerous to take a chance on. {Let's wait until he gets real old.}

* Canadian-Hammer ....... Robert CleRoux ........... {Too rough a guy for now.}

* Tony Alongi ........ Too crafty, and little reward for the 'high-risk'. {Dangerous left-jab.}

* A rematch with Doug Jones .......... What, are we 'Fucking Crazy'

* A rematch with Henry Cooper ....... What are we 'Fucking Crazy'

* Ingemar Johansson....... No way will we fight him in Sweden. {Not enough 'kronors' in Stockholm to get us to go to Sweden.}

* George Chuvalo ........... 'Cassius Clay' signed for a December 1963 bout, then pulled out. {Chicken Shit}

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by Lineal

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by Lineal

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by Master

Do not listen to bill's bull. The fight was real. Ali at his best.

In your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.

It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.

Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.

Ali legally changed his name. Sure it was Clay then but it is Ali now. Check yourself. Don't correct others when you are continuously erroneous.

Hold on, you pulled 'a boner' there Mr. Lineal.

Cassius Clay started calling himself 'Cassius X' first. Stealing that moniker from Malcolm X.

He never legally changed his name at first.

Make a note of it.

Did Ali legally change his name or not? I think you'll find the answer is yes.

His Mother,

Who brought Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. into this World, never accepted it.

That's good enough for me.

Odessa Grady Clay >
"Oh, Cassius has been calling himself all sorts of names since he was little. He wanted to be
Mickey Mantle, then Willie Mays. But he couldn't really play Baseball. He wasn't that good in
Sports, other than Boxing."

"He wanted to be Jack Johnson. Sometimes he wanted to be Jack Dempsey, and other
times it was Floyd Patterson. He always wrote those names on his sweatshirt when he
went to the boxing matches."

"For a while, he was calling himself 'Young Jack Johnson'. I thought that was funny,
because Jack Johnson was really flamboyant, and my son was so reserved and shy."

"But this name changing stuff. Oh it's just a phase to get some publicity. If it doesn't work,
he will come up with another name. But, no matter what, he will always be Cassius to me."

You must have all the books on him, by him, and for him by his family,thats really nice,we all like him too.

Andre,

Are you aware that John Astin was a horrible 'Riddler'.

It would be as if .......... Cassius Clay played 'Gomez'

John really did love Carolyn Jones but alas.

Originally Posted by Andre

John really did love Carolyn Jones but alas.

Not True,

They were just good friends. Nothing ever happened ..... sexually.

After 'The Addams Family' was cancelled, John Astin 'back-stabbed' Frank Gorshin
and accepted the role of 'The Riddler' in the Batman series.

Frank Gorshin was in contract talks for {Series 2} in late-1966. When the contract talks stalled,
John Astin said he could play 'The Riddler'.

He did, but played it badly in one 'double' Episode {February 8th and 9th, 1967}. The producer
of Batman {William Dozier} cancelled the remaining '3' episodes for The Riddler in Season 2.

He was so bad as The Riddler, that Producer - William Dozier 'begged' Frank Gorshin to come back
for Season 3.

William Dozier >
"I made a few mistakes in 'The Batman' series for sure. But the biggest mistake, was in not locking
up Frank Gorshin as 'The Riddler' for Season 2."

"John Astin was no Riddler. He told me he could play the part, but John was 'horrible'. John was too
slow, and did not have the 'quick response' of Frank Gorhsin. He was too laid back, and his actions
were forced, where Frank Gorshin's were more natural."

"John Astin was not for our series. He was just a 'fill-in'. A mistake for sure."

I didnt say he slept with her or anything of the sort.
She was happily married and John respected that, I said he loved her.

Originally Posted by Andre

I didnt say he slept with her or anything of the sort.
She was happily married and John respected that, I said he loved her.

Carolyn Jones ....{ Morticia Adams }

I never thought much of John other than a comedic actor. When I started on 'The Addams Family',
I was going though a divorce.

John thought that he could move in on me, but I laid down 'the law' right away, and I told him 'hands off the merchandise'.

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by Master

Bill, you only see the worst in Ali, so there is no talking to you.

You shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.

How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.

Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.

That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.

Have you ever met him Bill?, Have you ever shaken his hand?? Have you ever been in a room that suddenly went silent The Reason ?? The Greatest has arrived

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by Master

Bill, you only see the worst in Ali, so there is no talking to you.

You shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.

How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.

Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.

That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.

Have you ever met him Bill?, Have you ever shaken his hand?? Have you ever been in a room that suddenly went silent The Reason ?? The Greatest has arrived

Question 1 ......... Yes ........ Many times.
Question 2 ......... Yes ........ Several times.
Question 3 ......... No room ever went silent.

Muhammad Ali was no Joe DiMaggio.

Went 'Joltin Joe' arrived in a room, everyone was 'awestruck'.

There was a big difference between 'a class act' in a gentleman as {Joe DiMaggio},
and an 'entertainer' as in Cassius Clay.

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by Master

Bill, you only see the worst in Ali, so there is no talking to you.

You shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.

How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.

Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.

That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.

Have you ever met him Bill?, Have you ever shaken his hand?? Have you ever been in a room that suddenly went silent The Reason ?? The Greatest has arrived

Question 1 ......... Yes ........ Many times.
Question 2 ......... Yes ........ Several times.
Question 3 ......... No room ever went silent.

Muhammad Ali was no Joe DiMaggio.

Went 'Joltin Joe' arrived in a room, everyone was 'awestruck'.

There was a big difference between 'a class act' in a gentleman as {Joe DiMaggio},
and an 'entertainer' as in Cassius Clay.

Ali will be long remembered. He is an iconic legend that transcended boxing, sport and entertainment. There are reasons why he is a living legend written about long past his pro career.

Why are you trying to debate with him about Muhammad Ali? For all the sense you will get, you may as well debate Islam with a guy from ISIS!

Originally Posted by X

Why are you trying to debate with him about Muhammad Ali? For all the sense you will get, you may as well debate Islam with a guy from ISIS!

I am hoping Bill will forget the day Ali did not sign his autograph and left him unhappy, bitter and twisted full on vengeful hate and bile.

Charles 'Sonny' Liston

Was more of a gentleman then Cassius Clay.

Sonny was gracious and cheerful, while Cassius was sullen and more concerned
about his own self.

When I went to one of the N.O.I chapter meetings in Chicago where Cassius was speaking.
He as very mean-spirited, and chastised you if you had a different view or opinion of an issue
that was not like his.

He was very 'thick' that way.

Look at the 'meanness' here.