Thread: Is Evander Holyfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by woodzo

for one second im not doubting evanders fighting resume because it is certainly outstanding but i do think there is a double standard when comparing one boxer to another people like Lou Savarese, i mean people are saying its a good win, fair does but tyson never gets props for destroying this guy when talking about records

same goes for Larry Holmes wasnt he past it in the tyson fight people are quick to jump in saying tyson fought nobodys but still add the same names to evanders record as some sort of great accomplishment

Alex Stewart
James Tillis
Marvis Frazier
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tubbs
Mike spinks

the on top of that mike fought people like
Trevor Berbick
Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
Frank Bruno
Carl Williams
Donovan Ruddock
Francois Botha


who are jus as if not better then a lot of the fighters on holyfields record,, i dont mean for this to sound like im hating on holyfield cos im not he is a great, i just think its a bit wrong to compare him to ali,frazier, prob even foreman & a prime tyson (not for accomplishments more on boxing strengths)

Alex Stewart was decent but he froze when anyone rushed him and he was scared to death of Tyson.

James Tillis was a journeyman pure and simple nothing else he was decent hw but he was journeyman and still gave Tyson all he could handle.

Marvin Frazier are you kidding ??

Pinklon Thomas just got out of rehab if i remember right he wasn't the same.

Tony Tubbs was well out of shape and only had 2 weeks to train.

Michael Spinks Tysons best win but Spinks only got the belt getting gift decision off fading Holmes but still was good win.

Trevor Berbick got koed in first round before he met Tyson lost every round to Holmes and alo struggled with a brain damaged 40 year old Ali.

Tony Tucker was decent hw but his only good win before meeting Tyson was Douglas who at that time was considered really nothing and Tucker was behind when Douglas just quit.

Tyrell Biggs had some good skills but he had badly weak chin and was never that good really he was sort of boxer that would give good showing but he was no world beater.

Frank Bruno was dangerous puncher but lacked survival instinct and never was quite elite but i consider this good win for Tyson because Bruno had showed good showings when he was ahead vs Bonecrusher Witherspoon and Lewis.

Carl Williams is exactly like Biggs had good skills but had badly weak chin and was never elite and would give decent showings but was never world beater.

Razor Ruddock was dangerous puncher like Bruno but his defence uhh actually he had no defence and his punches were wild swinging punches Ruddock was decent sized hw with dangerous punch but he never had no real workrate and was lazy plus never had no defence.

Botha well what can i say he was an ok fighter i suppose but thats it ok he has never beaten one good name.

Ummm Ice
Its Marvis,and he only has two losses on his record,Tyson and Holmes

And ?? what does that prove he only fought 21 times.

He also beat Smith,Tillis,and Bugner
He wouldnt have gotten wiped out by Holmes if daddy hadnt tinkered with him,trying to make him a slugger,instead of a pure boxer

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

He also beat Smith,Tillis,and Bugner
He wouldnt have gotten wiped out by Holmes if daddy hadnt tinkered with him,trying to make him a slugger,instead of a pure boxer

Buger was old and was basically always journeyman Tillis was jounreyman Bonecrusher was just decent hw with big punch who had no real boxing skills and Holmes was leagues ahead of Frazier and would always stop him quickly.

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

He also beat Smith,Tillis,and Bugner
He wouldnt have gotten wiped out by Holmes if daddy hadnt tinkered with him,trying to make him a slugger,instead of a pure boxer

Buger was old and was basically always journeyman Tillis was jounreyman Bonecrusher was just decent hw with big punch who had no real boxing skills and Holmes was leagues ahead of Frazier and would always stop him quickly.

Bugner was still winning fights 16 years later,so I dont know how old Id say he was
Frazier shouldnt have tried to come out swinging with Holmes,but Joe was convinced he needed to do that for some reason
And if Frazier was as bad as you think,your shooting yourself in the foot,because then it was a crud fight for Holmes to take

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

He also beat Smith,Tillis,and Bugner
He wouldnt have gotten wiped out by Holmes if daddy hadnt tinkered with him,trying to make him a slugger,instead of a pure boxer

Buger was old and was basically always journeyman Tillis was jounreyman Bonecrusher was just decent hw with big punch who had no real boxing skills and Holmes was leagues ahead of Frazier and would always stop him quickly.

Bugner was still winning fights 16 years later,so I dont know how old Id say he was
Frazier shouldnt have tried to come out swinging with Holmes,but Joe was convinced he needed to do that for some reason
And if Frazier was as bad as you think,your shooting yourself in the foot,because then it was a crud fight for Holmes to take

Frazier was just ok and thats it ok and yes it was bad fight for Holmes to take i never said it wasn't.

Id also point out that Marvis was one of the top ranked amateurs with 50 wins,including wins against Witherspoon,Mitch Green,and Smith again
Nice article on him
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing...is-Frazier.php
Please note,I didnt put up anything but the link
(mumbles darkly about a certain geek from another site)

Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

<snip>
.. And do you guys notice how robotic Vlad is compared to Lennox? Lennox was just more versatile and a better fighter than Vlad. He would have stopped Brewster in 2 rounds. Vlad is big and strong and no one can walk in without getting hammered. Good strategy which will only work for so long.

Agree - an apt comparison because they both box and are of similar size. Wlad is like a student of the science, whereas though we know Lewis also learned and improved, it's as if he were in that process discovering what lay inside him as a native sense of what boxing is about. Wladimir does it by the book; Lewis does it more from within, and with a grace and style Klitschko will never achieve.

I think Klitschko could have been more aggressive, but he was being very cautious, needing this win more than wanting to put on a bonecrusher display. He did a superb job of controlling the fight. Amazing work with the jab. Maybe as he gains some confidence he'll also feel more comfortable taking the fight to his opponent in future bouts. But if not, and if he continues to win in this manner, can't take anything away from him on that account.

Originally Posted by NuthaPug

Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

<snip>
.. And do you guys notice how robotic Vlad is compared to Lennox? Lennox was just more versatile and a better fighter than Vlad. He would have stopped Brewster in 2 rounds. Vlad is big and strong and no one can walk in without getting hammered. Good strategy which will only work for so long.

Agree - an apt comparison because they both box and are of similar size. Wlad is like a student of the science, whereas though we know Lewis also learned and improved, it's as if he were in that process discovering what lay inside him as a native sense of what boxing is about. Wladimir does it by the book; Lewis does it more from within, and with a grace and style Klitschko will never achieve.

I think Klitschko could have been more aggressive, but he was being very cautious, needing this win more than wanting to put on a bonecrusher display. He did a superb job of controlling the fight. Amazing work with the jab. Maybe as he gains some confidence he'll also feel more comfortable taking the fight to his opponent in future bouts. But if not, and if he continues to win in this manner, can't take anything away from him on that account.

cautious what? He was on pace to break the compubox all time record for landed jabs.... he beat brewster mercilessly for 6 rounds.. he took it to him vicously what did you all want him to do beat the record x2

If brewster wouldnt have had a granite chin he would have been ko'd in the 3rd.... ive watched the fight three times... and he looks more dominate each time i watch it...

wlad robot? again is that your opinion or do you just hear stuff like that and repeat it because you thikn it makes you look smart..

wlad has a very fluid, beautiful style of boxing... throws crisp, straight pulverizing jabs, and works it into the left hook, he just added his lead straight right, he throws 3 to 5 jab bursts as good as ANY HW EVER, and that leads to the bone crushing straight right, he has great ring generalship... i dont see how anyone that knows about boxing could say he is robotic...

Originally Posted by Fire

Originally Posted by NuthaPug

Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

<snip>
.. And do you guys notice how robotic Vlad is compared to Lennox? Lennox was just more versatile and a better fighter than Vlad. He would have stopped Brewster in 2 rounds. Vlad is big and strong and no one can walk in without getting hammered. Good strategy which will only work for so long.

Agree - an apt comparison because they both box and are of similar size. Wlad is like a student of the science, whereas though we know Lewis also learned and improved, it's as if he were in that process discovering what lay inside him as a native sense of what boxing is about. Wladimir does it by the book; Lewis does it more from within, and with a grace and style Klitschko will never achieve.

I think Klitschko could have been more aggressive, but he was being very cautious, needing this win more than wanting to put on a bonecrusher display. He did a superb job of controlling the fight. Amazing work with the jab. Maybe as he gains some confidence he'll also feel more comfortable taking the fight to his opponent in future bouts. But if not, and if he continues to win in this manner, can't take anything away from him on that account.

cautious what? He was on pace to break the compubox all time record for landed jabs.... he beat brewster mercilessly for 6 rounds.. he took it to him vicously what did you all want him to do beat the record x2

If brewster wouldnt have had a granite chin he would have been ko'd in the 3rd.... ive watched the fight three times... and he looks more dominate each time i watch it...

wlad robot? again is that your opinion or do you just hear stuff like that and repeat it because you thikn it makes you look smart..

wlad has a very fluid, beautiful style of boxing... throws crisp, straight pulverizing jabs, and works it into the left hook, he just added his lead straight right, he throws 3 to 5 jab bursts as good as ANY HW EVER, and that leads to the bone crushing straight right, he has great ring generalship... i dont see how anyone that knows about boxing could say he is robotic...

Yea cause he fights in one of the most Terribly untalented Heavyweight era.. The fight lastnite was so brutally boring to watch it was unbearable...

Wlad is a big fish in a small pond and would be forced to fight and get backed up by Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Foreman. etc Wlad is missing something about him