Thread: The Mayweather double standard.

Mayweather-Pacquiao: The Double Standard

By Michael Herron:

The highly anticipated return of Floyd Mayweather, Jr. and Manny Pacquiao's dramatic knockout of Ricky Hatton has ignited the boxing world and sparked a great debate; fight fans are anxious to know which guy is the best, who is truly the top pound-for-pound fighter in the world? Pound-for-pound by definition was created to describe a fighter with great skill who can move up and down the scales, challenge fighters in multiple weight classes, and continue to perform and be just as successful as they would at their optimal weight. With this in mind, both fighters fit the description well, but in terms of acknowledging pound-for-pound greatness, there appears to be a double standard in favor of Manny Pacquiao.

Floyd Mayweather, Jr. has won titles in five weight classes, 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, yet none of his ring accomplishments are without criticism from the boxing media. During the Hatton-Pacquiao telecast for instance, Larry Merchant, in reference to Mayweather's return to boxing, went on a tirade accusing Floyd of cherrypicking opponents, pricing himself out of fights, and flat out ducking fighters.. Yet an obvious fact such as Pacquiao facing an opponent Mayweather has already defeated is never mentioned. It also seemed to fall under the radar that Mayweather had already defeated Pacquiao's previous opponent Oscar De La Hoya as well.

The irony is that Pacquiao's claim to being the undisputed best is largely based on these two fights. For the past few years, boxing writers, reporters, diehard fans, and media personalities have adopted an infamous view that Hatton and De La Hoya were merely cherry picked opponents, simply diversions while Mayweather avoided challenges from welterweights Miguel Cotto, Shane Mosley, and Antonio Margarito; yet these same two opponents are considered grand slam victories for Pacquiao; victories that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is pound-for-pound the best fighter in the world. How can this be if they were previously declared "cherries?"

Though Pacquiao's supporters would argue that his wins over Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, and Juan Manuel Marquez catapulted him to this status it was not sealed until Mayweather officially retired in 2008 and Pacquiao went on to defeat De La Hoya later the same year. Pacquiao certainly deserves credit for his victories over such a famous trio of Mexican warriors but in terms of a young fighter establishing himself--climbing the ladder, who can argue that Mayweather did not likewise defeat great fighters in the lighter weights? Surely no one would argue that Genaro Hernandez, Diego Corrales, Jesus Chavez, Angel Manfredy, Jose Luis Castillo, were cream puffs.

To further illustrate the double standard enter the #2 pound-for-pound fighter in the world Juan Manuel Marquez. Team Mayweather announced that Floyd will face Marquez on his July 18th return to the sport. He did not choose any old random contender as a tune-up but a multi-division world champion and in many observers opinion, two time conqueror of Manny Pacquiao. (Pacquiao scored a draw and a win against Marquez). The same media proponents that declared Hatton and De La Hoya "cherries" are now blasting Mayweather for taking a fight against proven champion Marquez. They argue that Marquez is too small or that Floyd knows he can beat him etc...Yet if Manny Pacquiao were to accept a third fight against Marquez, he'd be hailed as a true champion, a true warrior, the real pound-for-pound king.

So what is truly going on here? Is it a weight issue? Freddie Roach declared that Pacquiao's optimal weight is 140 and that is where he will be at his best. Mayweather, being a small welterweight, appears to be at his best somewhere between 140 and 147. In addition, Marquez has been moving up in weight successfully and it is he who called out Mayweather at a catchweight below 147. Is 3-4 pounds really so great a difference that Mayweather has to be persecuted for accepting a fight against Marquez? Catchweights are nothing new in boxing, why is it suddenly an issue now? Assuming Mayweather defeats Marquez, will diehard fans and media raise this same 3-4 pound argument when it is Pacquiao's turn to face Mayweather?

What is clear is that an answer to who is the best pound-for-pound can not be given based on their performance against common opponents, or their careers at the lighter weights. Both guys have been dynamic and only a battle against each other can settle the matter. It can be noted however that there is a double standard at play when it comes to Mayweather and Pacquiao. The media bashes Mayweather's accomplishments but hail Pacquiao for achieving the same thing. Also, Freddie Roach has indicated that Pacquiao will not move up to 147 to face Mayweather however it was just fine to move up for De La Hoya. Mayweather is blasted for fighting Marquez but Pacquiao would be a hero if he did the same. What this all indicates is that it is ultimately not simply a case of Mayweather "handpicking" opponents but it is more likely his opponents who are careful about picking him.

You should post the link with the article piye.

The writer is wrong about P4P. You don't have to actually fight outside your optimum division to be rated

P4P means you are the best boxer around regardless of size.

Manny has beaten more current linear champs than Floyd has, infact has Floyd beaten any?

Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.

There is no denying Pacquiao has fought some very dangerous fighters, even dangerous fighters who dont draw crowds, like Marquez, right after he beat Mab, when he could have taken a soft touch, whereas Floyd has avoided all his percieved threats, like Tszyu, Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams.

Poorly supported article!

The duck test: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

'Most' People are stupid and can see through the mask. Here's a writer that writes Marquez is a tune up fight and argues that Maweather Jr deserves the same accolades as Pacquiao for similar accomplishments?

This is where a little comprehension has to come into play! because it's a natural oxymoron: "It's not what they have done, it's how they did it!"

Ha ha...when this cack was retired all people did was damn near suck his taint beggin the guy to come back, now he is and now it's back to this guy is overpaid, under fought, blah, blah. I've never seen boxers and fans so eager to see a fight involving what they claim to be one of the crappiest overratted fighters out there. I'm starting to think floyd himself writes most of these articles

Taint n. - The area between your balls and arse. It taint your balls and it taint your arse. Otherwise known as the perineum.

I think there is an obvious double standard for Mayweather, but Pacquiao rightfully deserves more credit for his wins over DLH and hatton because they were more impressive.

That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.

Originally Posted by sanchez786

That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.

Well, you can't say Pac fights the best in the division. Be all the way fair. At 135, he cherrypicked David Diaz. David Diaz So did he duck Casamayor or Campbell? These were the true tests at 135 and both were screaming for Pac. At 147, he picked DLH. Well, that is a division with Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, PBF, etc. And lets not forget that DLH had not been able to make it to 147 in many years so he wasn't even a 147 pounder. So lets not say Pac fights the best of the division he is in when in fact he doesn't. And how is JMM too small but Pac isn't? People lets not forget that PBF has always been the smaller fighter since he left 135. He walks around at 148 Pac walks around at 143. Finally PBF is the bigger fighter and now its a crime. I am not big on PBF as a person but I know what I see in talent and people hold him to a higher standard because they can't stand how good he is with a mouth like that. Every fighter cherrypicks by the way. Its still a business.

Originally Posted by ross

P4P means you are the best boxer around regardless of size.

Manny has beaten more current linear champs than Floyd has, infact has Floyd beaten any?

Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.

There is no denying Pacquiao has fought some very dangerous fighters, even dangerous fighters who dont draw crowds, like Marquez, right after he beat Mab, when he could have taken a soft touch, whereas Floyd has avoided all his percieved threats, like Tszyu, Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams.

Maybe you should check the chronological order of things. Tszyu lost weeks before Mayweather fought Gatti against Ricky Hatton, Tszyu was set to fight Hatton before Mayweather was set to fight Gatti. Mayweather always wanted to face Tszyu. Out of all the guys you mentioned only Mosley is a real threat to Mayweather because he is impossible to hurt, and he has the speed to keep MAyweather on the defensive. Cotto doesn't move quick enough, nor does he have good enough defense to stop Mayweather from pot shotting him. Margarito can't deal with movement, and Williams is terrible against a fast counter puncher.

Originally Posted by blegit

Originally Posted by sanchez786

That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.

Well, you can't say Pac fights the best in the division. Be all the way fair. At 135, he cherrypicked David Diaz. David Diaz So did he duck Casamayor or Campbell? These were the true tests at 135 and both were screaming for Pac. At 147, he picked DLH. Well, that is a division with Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, PBF, etc. And lets not forget that DLH had not been able to make it to 147 in many years so he wasn't even a 147 pounder. So lets not say Pac fights the best of the division he is in when in fact he doesn't. And how is JMM too small but Pac isn't? People lets not forget that PBF has always been the smaller fighter since he left 135. He walks around at 148 Pac walks around at 143. Finally PBF is the bigger fighter and now its a crime. I am not big on PBF as a person but I know what I see in talent and people hold him to a higher standard because they can't stand how good he is with a mouth like that. Every fighter cherrypicks by the way. Its still a business.

Pacman doesn't walk around at 143 if he is coming into the ring at 148. I guarantee he walks around at roughly the same weight as Mayweather does which is 160. The thing I don't get is how come size is never brought into the equation when Pacquiao fights MArquez, I mean he weighed 3 pounds more in their last fight, I can't see MAyweather having anymore of a weight advantage over Marquez. Also I don't think Marquez will have that much difficulty putting on a little bit of weight, JCC did it fine, Duran did it fine. I think he will retain 95% of his speed, and dramatically increase his strength and power.

Originally Posted by ross

P4P means you are the best boxer around regardless of size.

Manny has beaten more current linear champs than Floyd has, infact has Floyd beaten any?

Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.

There is no denying Pacquiao has fought some very dangerous fighters, even dangerous fighters who dont draw crowds, like Marquez, right after he beat Mab, when he could have taken a soft touch, whereas Floyd has avoided all his percieved threats, like Tszyu, Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams.

Lets be fair and get and use the facts straight let not just spew words because you don't like a fighter. Lineal champs mean crap nowadays. The belts are ran by corrupt organizations. And yes, PBF has beaten lineal champs. Remember he got crap for taking on the lineal champ in Baldomir for the most money. And for his debut at 135 he took on the lineal champ in Castillo then did it again. As for Tszyu, PBF wanted Tsyzu and even went to negotiations. Tsyzu's plan was to go at Hatton first. PBF called out Mosley twice when Mosley was a fearsome lightweight knocking everyone out. Both times Mosley flat out refused with excuses. Remember when Mosley went from 135 to 147? Did he do that to avoid Tsyzu? When PBF fought the cash cow DLH he was accused of ducking the real threats. Mosley skipped an entire division to get at DLH and so did Pac. But I think neither ducked anyone. Its called cherrypicking and every fighter does it. Boxing is a business and you must use smart marketing, crafty management, and make intelligent business decisions.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by blegit

Originally Posted by sanchez786

That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.

Well, you can't say Pac fights the best in the division. Be all the way fair. At 135, he cherrypicked David Diaz. David Diaz So did he duck Casamayor or Campbell? These were the true tests at 135 and both were screaming for Pac. At 147, he picked DLH. Well, that is a division with Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, PBF, etc. And lets not forget that DLH had not been able to make it to 147 in many years so he wasn't even a 147 pounder. So lets not say Pac fights the best of the division he is in when in fact he doesn't. And how is JMM too small but Pac isn't? People lets not forget that PBF has always been the smaller fighter since he left 135. He walks around at 148 Pac walks around at 143. Finally PBF is the bigger fighter and now its a crime. I am not big on PBF as a person but I know what I see in talent and people hold him to a higher standard because they can't stand how good he is with a mouth like that. Every fighter cherrypicks by the way. Its still a business.

Pacman doesn't walk around at 143 if he is coming into the ring at 148. I guarantee he walks around at roughly the same weight as Mayweather does which is 160. The thing I don't get is how come size is never brought into the equation when Pacquiao fights MArquez, I mean he weighed 3 pounds more in their last fight, I can't see MAyweather having anymore of a weight advantage over Marquez. Also I don't think Marquez will have that much difficulty putting on a little bit of weight, JCC did it fine, Duran did it fine. I think he will retain 95% of his speed, and dramatically increase his strength and power.

You are correct. Freddie Roach was quoted as saying 143 is the comfortable walk around weight for Pac. But coming into his last two fights he weighed more than that. Maybe Pac focused on bulk. I just gave him the benefit of the doubt. And PBF does not walk around at 160. He is not tall enough to look skinny weighing 160. I know its tough to get the truth on fighter's natural weight but my guess is he still has a few pounds on Pac but people act like it is a great difference. Their excuse that JMM is too small is just plain hypocrisy and another double standard. PBF/JMM size difference is much smaller than PBF/Williams, PBF/Margarito, PBF/Mosley size difference! Where is their criticism? Remember when Cotto fought Corley at 140 and he weighed 17 pounds more than him? There wasn't a peep of Cotto criticism.

Originally Posted by Fenster

You should post the link with the article piye.

The writer is wrong about P4P. You don't have to actually fight outside your optimum division to be rated

you are correct to a point. But having success in more than one division should only work in your favour as to how high you are ranked, don't you agree? Dominating two or more divisions should count for more than dominating one.

Originally Posted by CGM

Originally Posted by Fenster

You should post the link with the article piye.

The writer is wrong about P4P. You don't have to actually fight outside your optimum division to be rated

you are correct to a point. But having success in more than one division should only work in your favour as to how high you are ranked, don't you agree? Dominating two or more divisions should count for more than dominating one.

But how many fighters actually dominate more than one division?

P4P is based on a fighters best fighting weight. Normally that is a division the fighter is having great success in. Hence a fighter like Hopkins was king without leaving the middleweight division.

There are realistically more divisons for a guy that is naturally 5'8, 154 than a fighter that is 6'1, 185.

Originally Posted by ross

Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.

If you are gonna bash Floyd at least get it right.

Tszyu Hatton was signed before Mayweather and Gatti. And Tszyu lost before Mayweather even beat Gatti so I don't know how Mayweather was ducking someone who was already obligated to fight and then lost. Mayweather then beat the guy who beat Tszyu by knocking him out. And the weight excuse really doesn't come into factor as Mayweather isn't a guy who imposes his will on you and tries to over power you, he lays back lets you come forward and counters you and he would have knocked out Hatton the same way at 140 as he did at 147 because him beating Hatton had to do with Hattons style, how Floyd adjusted to it and timed him. All that would have happened at 140 was Floyd would have been quicker slicker and hit harder so Mayweather beat Hatton no matter how many ways you wanna twist and turn it. and no one gives Hatton shit for beating the natural lightweight and past his prime Castillo did they? No, not a single thing of hate was said. Mayweather also beat Corralez, Genaro Hernandez whose only lost was when he moved up in weight and got beat by Oscar De La hoya, he beat Judah and Baldomir the number 1 and two guys at welterweight, beat Hatton who was the number one guy in the class Floyd "ducked" Tszyu in and he moved up to De La Hoya's weight, in De La Hoya's ring, under De La Hoya's promotion using De La Hoya's gloves and he still won, he didn't make Oscar move down in weight and be "drained" as some call it, he gave Oscar every advantage and still won the fight. People complain about who Floyd ducks and how its wrong he gets a shot, tell me how its right that Erik Morales gets a third fight with Pacquiao and why Pacquiao didn't fight Raheem? Raheem may not have been someone to beat Pacquiao but still if people want to say Mayweather ducked who by beating someone then we can use that same logic and say pacquiao ducked Raheem for an easier fight against an obviously on the slide Erik Morales couldn't we.

Mayweather double standard is true, but the person who wrote the article could have done a better job