Thread: WTF Happened with Haye?!

Originally Posted by C-Lo

First I heard he pulled out of the fight with an "undisclosed hand injury." The latest I heard it was his back that was bothering him which is why he pulled out of the fight.

Anyone know what "officially" happened to him?

It was a heart problem.

Originally Posted by hackey

BBC NEWS | Business | Setanta 'is on brink of collapse'

he wasn't gonna get paid, the back injury is bull imo. I can't blame him, but at least be honest about it.

And that's the savior of the division

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Lyle

Originally Posted by Fenster

Being the undisputed lineal cruiser champ earned him his shot (and the fact he's exciting and can sell a fight). When fighters decide to move up, after conquering a divison, they don't drop from being world-class, right? In almost ALL cases the fighter moves straight into a title shot.

Haye's situation is no different.

So stop with the "only two heavyweight fights" bollocks.

Is it bollocks I mean by your standards I guess Tyson Fury should have had his shot years ago.

Sure Haye was a cruiserweight champ but did he do anything spectacular? Not in my eyes, he beat Jean Marc Mormeck and that's just about it...Enzo Maccarinelli ain't shit, Tomaz Bonin isn't anything, and his biggest win coming vs Monte Barrett is just plain WEAK.

I'm sorry, but David Haye isn't that special yet, he's never even had back-to-back heavyweight fights, that is just lame as hell

err.. no, it's the total opposite. Tyson Fury hasn't proven himself world-class.

The example i've given you shows - the credentials of WORLD-CLASS fighters carry when moving up a division. That is a fact. I can give you a million examples - Spinks-Holmes, Leonard-Hagler, Pac-Hatton, Marquez-Casamayor, Hopkins-Tarver etc etc etc.. none of the guys stepping up PROVED themselves in the higher division, right? It didn't stop them from getting a shot. It didn't stop them from winning. You get it?

This is David Hayes situation. Simple as.

You may well believe he's crap, but the fact is he conquered the cruiserweight division. His exploits at cruiser combined with his exciting style made him a BIG draw straight away at heavyweight, hence the Klits setting up a 60,000 seat stadium for him.

I was going to attempt to say basically the same thing.

I really dont care anymore hope Haye gets his ass kicked by Wlad and be done with it hes no Holyfeild just lucky its a week divsion i guess.

An for the people saying Haye is so popular or known in America is full of shit he is on th same status as Klitschko if not worse. The heavyweight most people know here that still Active is fucking Evander Holyfeild. Honestly if the division going to get back in popular state usa better step it up or the division is going to die out and that would be sad. Considering it was always the main division and how far it has fallen since then is just un heard of all i got to say guys.

I can't IMAGINE what the build up to Tyson-Bruno would have been like or Lewis-Bruno.....if it was ANYTHING like this then I'm glad I didn't hear any of it!

Let's get our facts straight, David Haye is a top cruiserweight, not many cruiserweights go on to accomplish much in the heavyweight division. I'm not slagging or slating or whatever the fuck you want to call it David Haye, I'm saying THE CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION has produced Evander Holyfield and then a whole bunch of average fighters (at heavyweight): Al Cole BUST, Vassily Jirov Great cruiserweight BUST at heavyweight, Juan Carlos Gomez BUST, Carlos De Leon BUST, Kelvin Davis BUST, Immamu Mayfield BUST, James Toney....eh he was ok, but you get the idea...the cruiserweight division is full of guys either too big for 175 or too small for heavyweight and if they are neither it means only 1 thing....they didn't think they had the talent to cut it at heavyweight.

David Haye might end up holding 'A' title one day, but let's be real, he's only had 2 heavyweights fights, neither meant much at all, and the fights that he has had that mean something all occured at cruiserweight and there's only about 2 of those as well. For a guy who is 28 and a silver medalist in something that isn't the Olympics, he really seems inexperienced.

Originally Posted by Lyle

I can't IMAGINE what the build up to Tyson-Bruno would have been like or Lewis-Bruno.....if it was ANYTHING like this then I'm glad I didn't hear any of it!

Let's get our facts straight, David Haye is a top cruiserweight, not many cruiserweights go on to accomplish much in the heavyweight division. I'm not slagging or slating or whatever the fuck you want to call it David Haye, I'm saying THE CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION has produced Evander Holyfield and then a whole bunch of average fighters (at heavyweight): Al Cole BUST, Vassily Jirov Great cruiserweight BUST at heavyweight, Juan Carlos Gomez BUST, Carlos De Leon BUST, Kelvin Davis BUST, Immamu Mayfield BUST, James Toney....eh he was ok, but you get the idea...the cruiserweight division is full of guys either too big for 175 or too small for heavyweight and if they are neither it means only 1 thing....they didn't think they had the talent to cut it at heavyweight.

David Haye might end up holding 'A' title one day, but let's be real, he's only had 2 heavyweights fights, neither meant much at all, and the fights that he has had that mean something all occured at cruiserweight and there's only about 2 of those as well. For a guy who is 28 and a silver medalist in something that isn't the Olympics, he really seems inexperienced.

I agree. One of the problems I have with Haye is his mouth. I got no problem with him running it. That's not it. It's what he says. "He's the savior" "He's going after everybody" "He's going to clean out the division" Ok. When is that suppose to happen? But the time he's ready to fight it'll be close to a year he's been on the sidelines. Surely the division needs more cleaning than just Monte Barrett

Originally Posted by Lyle

OK in the past 50 years how many "World Class" Cruiserweights have really gone on to be spectacular at heavyweight?

I can tell you right now without even looking it up that more light heavyweights have done better in the heavyweight division than cruiserweights.

So what?

David Haye isn't a light Heavy Weight or a Cruiserweight from the past 50 years... David Haye is David Haye.

How many Eastern Europian fighters were ruling the division 50 years ago Lyle?

Doesn't matter though does it, because both questions are irelevant to the fact that Haye secured the fight and that is that... we are not talking about how well he will do based on the law of averages... we are talking about the fact he didn't fight his way to the belt. if he'd had to fight his way to it I'm sure he would have set about that instead. But he didn't have to.

Can't see were the dicussion can go from there.

Originally Posted by Mr140

Fenster how many people have moved up to get a shot at the main man in the heavyweight division that were moving up not to many at all. Like i said before how long did it take Holyfeild to get a shot at the heavyweight champion. Not only that he had a better resume coming into the heavyweight division and still had to fight a good amount of guys and wait a few years before his shot i mean the division week but still few guys that should be in the mix.

Holyfield became world champ I think in his seventh fight as a heavyweight. If Haye fights Vitali in September it will be I think his fourth at heavyweight, in a far far weaker era.

Like Hoylfield he has come up as the unified cruiserweight champ, only the third in history.

Why do you bring up Hoylfield and not Michael Spinks? He went from lightheavyweight and immediately challenged Larry Holmes at heavyweight, not even a preperation fight, so from 175 to fighting a 221 lb Larry Holmes, one of the all time greats and he won!

Haye will be moving up from 205 lbs to (he's starting 30lbs higher than Spinks did) and was going to fight Wlad in his fourth fight as a heavy, a fighter who I believe nobody in this forum would rate as high as Larry Holmes, nor this era as being anything like as good as it was in the heavyweight division 25 years or so ago.


Haye is a unified champ, he actually has a body that looks befitting a world champ, and he has the knockouts and exciting style that a popular world champion boxer is always supposed to have.

Who else in the entire heavyweight division has the looks, the physique, the charisma, the marketability, the exciting knockout style and the brash swagger that a true champ is supposed to have more than David Haye?


THAT's why he desereved to be jumped to the front of the queue, because boxing is primariliy an entertainment business and as such needs to cater for the wants of the fans.

You people who bemoan Haye fighting for a world title clearly have no idea about running a succesful business, and taking boxing in the right direction.

The fans have all but deserted the heavyweight scene because they don't give two shits about watching some Eastern European slow boring plodders slowly jab their way to wins over faded, fat, heartless American has beens and never will be's any more.

Haye offers something exciting, he's the Terminator Salvation or the new Star Trek blockbuster movie that everybody wants to see, and no reputable cinema would refuse to screen those movies on account of them not having the artistic merit of a fine melodrama and instead choose to rescreen The Hours or Chigaco instead.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Mr140

Fenster how many people have moved up to get a shot at the main man in the heavyweight division that were moving up not to many at all. Like i said before how long did it take Holyfeild to get a shot at the heavyweight champion. Not only that he had a better resume coming into the heavyweight division and still had to fight a good amount of guys and wait a few years before his shot i mean the division week but still few guys that should be in the mix.

Holyfield became world champ I think in his seventh fight as a heavyweight. If Haye fights Vitali in September it will be I think his fourth at heavyweight, in a far far weaker era.

Like Hoylfield he has come up as the unified cruiserweight champ, only the third in history.

Why do you bring up Hoylfield and not Michael Spinks? He went from lightheavyweight and immediately challenged Larry Holmes at heavyweight, not even a preperation fight, so from 175 to fighting a 221 lb Larry Holmes, one of the all time greats and he won!

Haye will be moving up from 205 lbs to (he's starting 30lbs higher than Spinks did) and was going to fight Wlad in his fourth fight as a heavy, a fighter who I believe nobody in this forum would rate as high as Larry Holmes, nor this era as being anything like as good as it was in the heavyweight division 25 years or so ago.


Haye is a unified champ, he actually has a body that looks befitting a world champ, and he has the knockouts and exciting style that a popular world champion boxer is always supposed to have.

Who else in the entire heavyweight division has the looks, the physique, the charisma, the marketability, the exciting knockout style and the brash swagger that a true champ is supposed to have more than David Haye?


THAT's why he desereved to be jumped to the front of the queue, because boxing is primariliy an entertainment business and as such needs to cater for the wants of the fans.

You people who bemoan Haye fighting for a world title clearly have no idea about running a succesful business, and taking boxing in the right direction.

The fans have all but deserted the heavyweight scene because they don't give two shits about watching some Eastern European slow boring plodders slowly jab their way to wins over faded, fat, heartless American has beens and never will be's any more.

Haye offers something exciting, he's the Terminator Salvation or the new Star Trek blockbuster movie that everybody wants to see, and no reputable cinema would refuse to screen those movies on account of them not having the artistic merit of a fine melodrama and instead choose to rescreen The Hours or Chigaco instead.

unless they cancel the show.

Originally Posted by AdamGB

So what?

David Haye isn't a light Heavy Weight or a Cruiserweight from the past 50 years... David Haye is David Haye.

How many Eastern Europian fighters were ruling the division 50 years ago Lyle?

Doesn't matter though does it, because both questions are irelevant to the fact that Haye secured the fight and that is that... we are not talking about how well he will do based on the law of averages... we are talking about the fact he didn't fight his way to the belt. if he'd had to fight his way to it I'm sure he would have set about that instead. But he didn't have to.

Can't see were the dicussion can go from there.

Up until the 1990's the Eastern Europeans were in something called Communism and therefore only allowed to box amateur....so that's a moot point.

If you want to see Haye get his ass whupped then fine, I just find it amusing that the same people that said "Wlad isn't ready" are the exact same people that are saying "David Haye deserves a title shot"...such a double standard.

It doesn't matter how weak you percieve the division to be David Haye isn't ready AND if you were a true FAN you would be worried and rightfully so. With David Haye's style 1 big beat down at heavyweight could ruin him forever.....but I guess he's ready for it, I mean he already has achieved sooooo much fighting the likes of an Old Jean Marc Mormeck, Tomaz Bonin, and Monte Barrett.....oh wait, I left out Enzo Maccarinelli! Man Enzo has been on a hot streak lately huh? He certainly turned out to be an awesome force in the cruiserweight division

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Mr140

Fenster how many people have moved up to get a shot at the main man in the heavyweight division that were moving up not to many at all. Like i said before how long did it take Holyfeild to get a shot at the heavyweight champion. Not only that he had a better resume coming into the heavyweight division and still had to fight a good amount of guys and wait a few years before his shot i mean the division week but still few guys that should be in the mix.

Holyfield became world champ I think in his seventh fight as a heavyweight. If Haye fights Vitali in September it will be I think his fourth at heavyweight, in a far far weaker era.

Like Hoylfield he has come up as the unified cruiserweight champ, only the third in history.

Why do you bring up Hoylfield and not Michael Spinks? He went from lightheavyweight and immediately challenged Larry Holmes at heavyweight, not even a preperation fight, so from 175 to fighting a 221 lb Larry Holmes, one of the all time greats and he won!

Haye will be moving up from 205 lbs to (he's starting 30lbs higher than Spinks did) and was going to fight Wlad in his fourth fight as a heavy, a fighter who I believe nobody in this forum would rate as high as Larry Holmes, nor this era as being anything like as good as it was in the heavyweight division 25 years or so ago.


Haye is a unified champ, he actually has a body that looks befitting a world champ, and he has the knockouts and exciting style that a popular world champion boxer is always supposed to have.

Who else in the entire heavyweight division has the looks, the physique, the charisma, the marketability, the exciting knockout style and the brash swagger that a true champ is supposed to have more than David Haye?


THAT's why he desereved to be jumped to the front of the queue, because boxing is primariliy an entertainment business and as such needs to cater for the wants of the fans.

You people who bemoan Haye fighting for a world title clearly have no idea about running a succesful business, and taking boxing in the right direction.

The fans have all but deserted the heavyweight scene because they don't give two shits about watching some Eastern European slow boring plodders slowly jab their way to wins over faded, fat, heartless American has beens and never will be's any more.

Haye offers something exciting, he's the Terminator Salvation or the new Star Trek blockbuster movie that everybody wants to see, and no reputable cinema would refuse to screen those movies on account of them not having the artistic merit of a fine melodrama and instead choose to rescreen The Hours or Chigaco instead.

I don't care if Haye gets his title shot against one of the brothers. All the sooner I get to see him knocked out.

Haye isn't half the fighter Michael Spinks was in his prime. Michael Spinks would have made Haye look like an amateur and Holmes would have battered him silly. Heck, the Larry Holmes that lost to Tyson would have battered Haye.

Originally Posted by Lyle

OK so fine since cruiserweight started who has moved up and done things at heavyweight? And yes this is relevant because either you're saying "This happens all the time, cruiserweights routinely move up and become champions" OR you're saying "David Haye is skilled like no other cruiserweight bar Evander Holyfield"....and I think either way you look at it that's pretty damn stupid.

The TRUTH of the matter is that light heavyweights who move up to heavyweight have done better than cruiserweights....that's a FACT.

Do you think Tomaz Adamek could hang with any halfway decent heavyweight How about Steve Cunningham? Hell Vassily Jirov was one of the best cruiserweights around and he moved up to heavyweight, had a decent fight vs Joe Mesi (a very average fighter) and then ended up getting beat down by the likes of an old Michael Moorer and he ended up fighting to a draw with ORLIN NORRIS!!!!

Yeah but that has no relevance whatsoever as none of them are David Haye.

Originally Posted by Lyle

Originally Posted by AdamGB

So what?

David Haye isn't a light Heavy Weight or a Cruiserweight from the past 50 years... David Haye is David Haye.

How many Eastern Europian fighters were ruling the division 50 years ago Lyle?

Doesn't matter though does it, because both questions are irelevant to the fact that Haye secured the fight and that is that... we are not talking about how well he will do based on the law of averages... we are talking about the fact he didn't fight his way to the belt. if he'd had to fight his way to it I'm sure he would have set about that instead. But he didn't have to.

Can't see were the dicussion can go from there.

Up until the 1990's the Eastern Europeans were in something called Communism and therefore only allowed to box amateur....so that's a moot point.

Finally mate!! you're getting it!

If you want to see Haye get his ass whupped then fine, I just find it amusing that the same people that said "Wlad isn't ready" are the exact same people that are saying "David Haye deserves a title shot"...such a double standard.

Which people said that I want names and quotes mate... it sounds like mild paranioa, do you think everybody who likes Haye has always been out to get Wlad or something? What does that have to do with Haye not being able to get a shot at the title... despite the fact that he did?

It doesn't matter how weak you percieve the division to be David Haye isn't ready AND if you were a true FAN you would be worried and rightfully so.

I don't consider myself of 'fan' of David Haye, or only other boxer per se... I've told you this before, I'm not in Hayes corner just because you're in Wlad's.

With David Haye's style 1 big beat down at heavyweight could ruin him forever.....but I guess he's ready for it, I mean he already has achieved sooooo much fighting the likes of an Old Jean Marc Mormeck, Tomaz Bonin, and Monte Barrett.....oh wait, I left out Enzo Maccarinelli! Man Enzo has been on a hot streak lately huh? He certainly turned out to be an awesome force in the cruiserweight division

You've sort of went off on a bit of a tangent there haven't you mate... all I've talked about is the fact that you're upset because Haye did what every other fighter does (even when they're are not an undisputed champion at ANY weight) which is call out the best fighters, don't get all butt hurt just because Wlad took the fight.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Mr140

Fenster how many people have moved up to get a shot at the main man in the heavyweight division that were moving up not to many at all. Like i said before how long did it take Holyfeild to get a shot at the heavyweight champion. Not only that he had a better resume coming into the heavyweight division and still had to fight a good amount of guys and wait a few years before his shot i mean the division week but still few guys that should be in the mix.

Holyfield became world champ I think in his seventh fight as a heavyweight. If Haye fights Vitali in September it will be I think his fourth at heavyweight, in a far far weaker era.

Like Hoylfield he has come up as the unified cruiserweight champ, only the third in history.

Why do you bring up Hoylfield and not Michael Spinks? He went from lightheavyweight and immediately challenged Larry Holmes at heavyweight, not even a preperation fight, so from 175 to fighting a 221 lb Larry Holmes, one of the all time greats and he won!

Haye will be moving up from 205 lbs to (he's starting 30lbs higher than Spinks did) and was going to fight Wlad in his fourth fight as a heavy, a fighter who I believe nobody in this forum would rate as high as Larry Holmes, nor this era as being anything like as good as it was in the heavyweight division 25 years or so ago.


Haye is a unified champ, he actually has a body that looks befitting a world champ, and he has the knockouts and exciting style that a popular world champion boxer is always supposed to have.

Who else in the entire heavyweight division has the looks, the physique, the charisma, the marketability, the exciting knockout style and the brash swagger that a true champ is supposed to have more than David Haye?


THAT's why he desereved to be jumped to the front of the queue, because boxing is primariliy an entertainment business and as such needs to cater for the wants of the fans.

You people who bemoan Haye fighting for a world title clearly have no idea about running a succesful business, and taking boxing in the right direction.

The fans have all but deserted the heavyweight scene because they don't give two shits about watching some Eastern European slow boring plodders slowly jab their way to wins over faded, fat, heartless American has beens and never will be's any more.

Haye offers something exciting, he's the Terminator Salvation or the new Star Trek blockbuster movie that everybody wants to see, and no reputable cinema would refuse to screen those movies on account of them not having the artistic merit of a fine melodrama and instead choose to rescreen The Hours or Chigaco instead.

Bilbo speaketh the truth!!

It has feck all to do with whether Haye deserves the shot or not, since when has the boxing business EVER been about what's right and just deserves?

Boxing is about money, always has been! For the reasons pointed out by Biilbo David Haye was the biggest fight financially out there for Wlad. Wlad knew it so he took the fight and he'll take the fight again whether Haye deserves it or not.

If boxing was only about money then why this bullshit with the back "injury" If all this was just about money then why won't Valuev fight anyone who can KO him People don't pay to watch HIM fight, they WOULD pay to see him get KO'd!

AdamGB, I didn't go off on a tagent, I explained that without proper experience in the division David Haye WILL get mauled in the ring and his career WILL be ended. Numerous cruiserweights whom I might add are better/more experienced than David Haye have tried this very thing and once they get into the deep water that is the heavyweight division they are drowned out by the guys we(and by we I mean you guys) view as "bums". Do you honestly think that David Haye is the best of the heavyweight division? Do you think he's top 10? Top 20? What can you base that on? A win vs an old Mormeck AFTER getting knocked silly Or maybe wins over heavyweight powers Bonin and Barrett

If people want to hype a fight up I am fine with it, but damn it you all know this is a hype job....this would have been worse than Mayweather Jr.-Gatti!! People would pay for it expecting a battle and then end up watching a murder get committed in the ring.