First off I believe Pac-man should face Cotto at 147, like he did Oscar. However the rumours seem to be pointing at a 145 pound mark. Cotto in his last fight came in at 146, his lowest ever (rest dead on 147 or 146.5). Should removing this single pound take away the Pac-mans win or just be a footnote. Obviously it will depend on Cotto's performance but what do you think now?

Any fighter should get credit for beating another fighter 5+ pounds heavier than him at fight night.

Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

Any fighter should get credit for beating another fighter 5+ pounds heavier than him at fight night.

Chagaev must have recived major props then for beating Valuev

Of course he should!

Cotto weighed in at 146 lb EVEN against Clottey. Here watch the video of the weigh in here. He weighed 146.0 lbs

So you think if he has to lose a single freaking pound it means he's drained and done and is just a shell?

Originally Posted by GAME

Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

Any fighter should get credit for beating another fighter 5+ pounds heavier than him at fight night.

Chagaev must have recived major props then for beating Valuev

This is really so simply to understand.....

If two fighters are of equal ability but one is bigger than because all other factors are even the bigger guy will win.

However if one fighter is vastly better than the other fighter but the other fighter is bigger then the smaller but better fighter will still likely win because he better everywhere else.

It's a simple equation.

Manny beating Cotto is a much much much bigger deal than Chagaev beating Valuev because Valuev is inferior in every single regard to Cotto other than size.

Manny would be beating a bigger and also elite fighter.

Chagaev beat a bigger but mediocre fighter.

How is that hard to understand?

Agree with Bilbo. Manny should get full credit for beating Cotto at 145.

i grasped the catchweight idea from the very first time bilbo explained it.



wrong board this should be at the pac thread or is the pac thread made for spam only? no really?

Everything to do with Pac should be on that other forum theyve had to make on here to keep the idiots away from discusiing boxing with real boxing fans

No, he should not recieve full credit. Now if he was to fight Cotto at 147 with none of these phoney strings attached I would give him full credit for the win. Manny is looking for big money fights whilst trying to avoid risk by bringing WW's down from their optimum fighting weights. There are no more big money fights at 140 for him so he is trying on this tactic.

I refuse to give him much credit for that kind of carry on.

Originally Posted by miles

No, he should not recieve full credit. Now if he was to fight Cotto at 147 with none of these phoney strings attached I would give him full credit for the win. Manny is looking for big money fights whilst trying to avoid risk by bringing WW's down from their optimum fighting weights. There are no more big money fights at 140 for him so he is trying on this tactic.

I refuse to give him much credit for that kind of carry on.

Miles you are simply wrong mate.

Had Oscar beaten Hopkins you wouldn't have credited him with that win?

As he lost, does that mean he's fucking useless as Hopkins must surely have been weight drained at 158 lbs and Oscar still got knocked out?

What about Hopkins win over Tarver? Tarver had just dropped down from heavyweight, Hopkins just beat a shell?

What about Pavlik losing to Hopkins? That fight was at a catchweight of 170 lbs. Pavlik was dominated by a weight drained Hopkins who gave up double the amount of weight than the two pounds Cotto might have to.

What about Joe Calzaghe's win over Hopkins? That was fought at 173 lbs so again Hopkins was weight drained. Why didn't they fight at the full 175 limit, does Calzaghe get no credit for that win?

I honestly think you guys are just letting your hate overtake your common sense.

Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

Originally Posted by miles

No, he should not recieve full credit. Now if he was to fight Cotto at 147 with none of these phoney strings attached I would give him full credit for the win. Manny is looking for big money fights whilst trying to avoid risk by bringing WW's down from their optimum fighting weights. There are no more big money fights at 140 for him so he is trying on this tactic.

I refuse to give him much credit for that kind of carry on.

Miles you are simply wrong mate.

Had Oscar beaten Hopkins you wouldn't have credited him with that win?

As he lost, does that mean he's fucking useless as Hopkins must surely have been weight drained at 158 lbs and Oscar still got knocked out?

What about Hopkins win over Tarver? Tarver had just dropped down from heavyweight, Hopkins just beat a shell?

What about Pavlik losing to Hopkins? That fight was at a catchweight of 170 lbs. Pavlik was dominated by a weight drained Hopkins who gave up double the amount of weight than the two pounds Cotto might have to.

What about Joe Calzaghe's win over Hopkins? That was fought at 173 lbs so again Hopkins was weight drained. Why didn't they fight at the full 175 limit, does Calzaghe get no credit for that win?

I honestly think you guys are just letting your hate overtake your common sense.

I'm not clouded by hate in the slightest. I just happen to like the divisions we have and don't see the purpose nor point in having fighters not fighting at the given weights. If a 140 fighter is unable to get up to 147 then why should another fighter come down to a catchweight just to give the other guy more of a shot at pulling out the win. It's a lame move and I fail to see any merit in it.

Anyway, this thread is talking about Pac against Cotto, so in this situation I see NO reason why Manny couldn't find Cotto at 147 pounds. Why even bother having negotiations trying to buy Manny a more favourable weight deal? If he can't deal with the weight then piss off and fight a 140 fighter.

It's a simple logic.

Neither of the two will fight in their natural weightclass. So who ever wins will earn credit. Same thing with JMM-PBF.

if Manny and Roach have so much faith in his abilities why not make the jump to 147? you wanna claim you're the best, you fight the best, at their best

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

Originally Posted by miles

No, he should not recieve full credit. Now if he was to fight Cotto at 147 with none of these phoney strings attached I would give him full credit for the win. Manny is looking for big money fights whilst trying to avoid risk by bringing WW's down from their optimum fighting weights. There are no more big money fights at 140 for him so he is trying on this tactic.

I refuse to give him much credit for that kind of carry on.

Miles you are simply wrong mate.

Had Oscar beaten Hopkins you wouldn't have credited him with that win?

As he lost, does that mean he's fucking useless as Hopkins must surely have been weight drained at 158 lbs and Oscar still got knocked out?

What about Hopkins win over Tarver? Tarver had just dropped down from heavyweight, Hopkins just beat a shell?

What about Pavlik losing to Hopkins? That fight was at a catchweight of 170 lbs. Pavlik was dominated by a weight drained Hopkins who gave up double the amount of weight than the two pounds Cotto might have to.

What about Joe Calzaghe's win over Hopkins? That was fought at 173 lbs so again Hopkins was weight drained. Why didn't they fight at the full 175 limit, does Calzaghe get no credit for that win?

I honestly think you guys are just letting your hate overtake your common sense.

I'm not clouded by hate in the slightest. I just happen to like the divisions we have and don't see the purpose nor point in having fighters not fighting at the given weights. If a 140 fighter is unable to get up to 147 then why should another fighter come down to a catchweight just to give the other guy more of a shot at pulling out the win. It's a lame move and I fail to see any merit in it.

Anyway, this thread is talking about Pac against Cotto, so in this situation I see NO reason why Manny couldn't find Cotto at 147 pounds. Why even bother having negotiations trying to buy Manny a more favourable weight deal? If he can't deal with the weight then piss off and fight a 140 fighter.

It's a simple logic.

You are completely missing the point. The weight classes and belts exist for fighters to fight and get recognition as being the best in that weight class.

When you reach the level of elite p4p fighter you transcend the weight classes and belts and move onto being an elite fighter.

Then the challenge is to fight other elite fighters who also have proved themselves the best in their weight class.

The whole world then wants to see these elite fighters fight each other, they become megafights.

You are just putting obstacles in the way of great fights how can you not see that?

If Cotto was still fighting at 140 you'd have no problem, you'd just be psyched because you were going to see a great fight.

But because he's moved to 147 you willingly submit yourself to some strange rules bondage and can no longer enjoy any fight between them unless it takes place at 147 lbs exactly and meets all the terms and requirements as laid down by the WBO Boxing Organisation.

Why does it matter about a weight class or a belt? Is the WBO strap really that important to you?

Manny is the 140 lb champ and Cotto is the 147 lb champ. It's not about Manny moving up to become the 147 lb champ he doesn't care about the WBO belt or the weight class, he want to beat Cotto.

So they fight at a catchweight agreeable to both fighters. If heaven forbid, there's no WBO belt on the line I think we can cope with that.

Think of all the great fights in history? How many do you look back on and can think ah yes this was for the WBC and IBF belts, and this took place in the junior lightweight division?

When we are talking about elite fighters who fight in many weight classes and win many belts it's not the belts and weight classes that are important, it's the fights.

Cotto is one of the 10 best fighters PFP in the world. Anytime you beat a Top 10 PFP fighter, you deserve credit for it.

Cotto will likely weigh 160+ on fight night. Pacquiao will likely weigh in the high 140s. Anytime you can beat a Top 10 PFP fighter who outweighs you by 10 pounds on fight night, you deserve a lot of credit for it.

If Pacquiao beats Cotto, he deserves a lot of credit for it. I don't see how anyone could suggest otherwise.