Sugar Shane has done what is apparently impossible to do. He moved down from 154 lbs to 147 lbs, late in his career, after more than 40 fights and well into his thirties and won the linear title.

As we know from recent debates on this forum as well as basic understanding of human biology it is impossible for a fighter to give up even a couple of pounds and be able to compete with a smaller guy on a fair footing and yet Sugar Shane has defied these odds and moved down AN ENTIRE WEIGHT CLASS and became the champ.

Surely he must be the best fighter of all time?

Discuss

Agreed... he got down to 147... so why stop there... He has demonstrated that he can move in the 'down' direction, logically there is no cut off point he would ever have to stop right?

I had £10 in my wallet... I just bought a CD for £9.99

Would anybody like to lend a £10?... I'll just get it out of my wallet.

GOAT NO

One of the sports greatest ever yes.....

Top 20 imo

Originally Posted by Bilbo's Mom

Surely he must be the best fighter of all time?

No.... and stop calling me Shirley.

Sugar Shane is definitely the greatest fighter that has ever lived. Sugar Shane almost 38 years old manages to be just as strong, fast, with great reflexes that he had in his late 20s. No fighter in fact no athlete in the history of sports has managed to be as physically good in their late 30s as they were in their prime years.

Sugar Ray Leonard and Robinson were shot in their late 30s, Ali was getting beat up by Holmes and Berbick, Roy Jones was getting ko by guys he would have beaten up, Whitaker was getting beat up by Tito, Joe Louis got ko by Marciano at age 37. Not with Sugar Shane.

I do agree with a bit of what Bilbo is saying though... it is a very rare feat for a fighter to move down a weight class after campaigning at another one for a long time.

I wonder why it could possibly be so rare...

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Sugar Shane is definitely the greatest fighter that has ever lived. Sugar Shane almost 38 years old manages to be just as strong, fast, with great reflexes that he had in his late 20s. No fighter in fact no athlete in the history of sports has managed to be as physically good in their late 30s as they were in their prime years.

Sugar Ray Leonard and Robinson were shot in their late 30s, Ali was getting beat up by Holmes and Berbick, Roy Jones was getting ko by guys he would have beaten up, Whitaker was getting beat up by Tito, Joe Louis got ko by Marciano at age 37. Not with Sugar Shane.

Bernard Hopkins??

Also at about the same age as Shane, SRR managed to beat Carmen Basilio in despite this coming on the back of a 150 fight career. No way is Shane as fast as he was in his prime as well, he didn't look that fast against Mayorga, who he would have blinded with speed once.

He is a great fighter and I rate Shane very highly but no.

Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Sugar Shane is definitely the greatest fighter that has ever lived. Sugar Shane almost 38 years old manages to be just as strong, fast, with great reflexes that he had in his late 20s. No fighter in fact no athlete in the history of sports has managed to be as physically good in their late 30s as they were in their prime years.

Sugar Ray Leonard and Robinson were shot in their late 30s, Ali was getting beat up by Holmes and Berbick, Roy Jones was getting ko by guys he would have beaten up, Whitaker was getting beat up by Tito, Joe Louis got ko by Marciano at age 37. Not with Sugar Shane.

Bernard Hopkins??

Also at about the same age as Shane, SRR managed to beat Carmen Basilio in despite this coming on the back of a 150 fight career. No way is Shane as fast as he was in his prime as well, he didn't look that fast against Mayorga, who he would have blinded with speed once.

Bernard Hopkins uses his ring smarts more so than his physical gifts which aren't there anymore when he was young. Hopkins is a crafty veteran.

Sugar Shane looked great against Margarito at welterweight. It looked like the Sugar Shane that fought Oscar for the 1st time in 2000. The power, speed, agility, quick reflexes were there. It was as if he never aged.

Sugar shane should share his secrets with a guy like Roy Jones or Whittaker, who here wouldn't want to see those guys return to their primes?

Defeated by Vernon Forrest and Winky takes some of the shine, and I felt he lost the second fight to ODH, but if he managed himself like Mayweather then he would have stayed at lightweight and never lost.

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Sugar Shane is definitely the greatest fighter that has ever lived. Sugar Shane almost 38 years old manages to be just as strong, fast, with great reflexes that he had in his late 20s. No fighter in fact no athlete in the history of sports has managed to be as physically good in their late 30s as they were in their prime years.

Sugar Ray Leonard and Robinson were shot in their late 30s, Ali was getting beat up by Holmes and Berbick, Roy Jones was getting ko by guys he would have beaten up, Whitaker was getting beat up by Tito, Joe Louis got ko by Marciano at age 37. Not with Sugar Shane.

Bernard Hopkins??

Also at about the same age as Shane, SRR managed to beat Carmen Basilio in despite this coming on the back of a 150 fight career. No way is Shane as fast as he was in his prime as well, he didn't look that fast against Mayorga, who he would have blinded with speed once.

Bernard Hopkins uses his ring smarts more so than his physical gifts which aren't there anymore when he was young. Hopkins is a crafty veteran.

Sugar Shane looked great against Margarito at welterweight. It looked like the Sugar Shane that fought Oscar for the 1st time in 2000. The power, speed, agility, quick reflexes were there. It was as if he never aged.

Sugar shane should share his secrets with a guy like Roy Jones or Whittaker, who here wouldn't want to see those guys return to their primes?

Shane uses his ring smarts as well, & I think the lack of speed on Margarito's behalf made Shane look quicker than he still is. That win was all about ring smarts for me.

Mosely is a great fighter ....... greates ever to step between the ropes ..... I'm not sure.

Robinson went nearly 100 fights undefeated, lost, then went nearly another hundred undefeated (when fighters actually fought the best around), Duran cleaned out the lightweights, took over at Welter and was fiercely competitive for the next 25 years.

I think the point of this thread is to defend Pacquiaos actions in some way. To say that if a fighter boiled down in weight and is sucessful then he must be great .. . . . . cuz Oscar , Hatton , Cotto are all weight drained and stand no chance pre fight whereas Shane has proven he can still win

The topic has come from a pacfan so in a round about way they are trying to make a point of defending Pacs actions about catchweights.

Great fighter.Nice guy.Tremendous ahtlete and nothing but respect for him but not the best ever.No way.As Master mentioned I think his two losses to Forrest reduce it.And he did not always fight a smart fight.....the Mayorga fight for example.Think that was all about sending a message to Margarito.....he bombed with a very physical Mayorga.Also wish he would have cleaned up lightweight prior to leaping to Welter.

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Sugar Shane is definitely the greatest fighter that has ever lived. Sugar Shane almost 38 years old manages to be just as strong, fast, with great reflexes that he had in his late 20s. No fighter in fact no athlete in the history of sports has managed to be as physically good in their late 30s as they were in their prime years.

Sugar Ray Leonard and Robinson were shot in their late 30s, Ali was getting beat up by Holmes and Berbick, Roy Jones was getting ko by guys he would have beaten up, Whitaker was getting beat up by Tito, Joe Louis got ko by Marciano at age 37. Not with Sugar Shane.

Bernard Hopkins??

Also at about the same age as Shane, SRR managed to beat Carmen Basilio in despite this coming on the back of a 150 fight career. No way is Shane as fast as he was in his prime as well, he didn't look that fast against Mayorga, who he would have blinded with speed once.

Bernard Hopkins uses his ring smarts more so than his physical gifts which aren't there anymore when he was young. Hopkins is a crafty veteran.

Sugar Shane looked great against Margarito at welterweight. It looked like the Sugar Shane that fought Oscar for the 1st time in 2000. The power, speed, agility, quick reflexes were there. It was as if he never aged.

Sugar shane should share his secrets with a guy like Roy Jones or Whittaker, who here wouldn't want to see those guys return to their primes?

Hopkins still has his speed, and that was evident in the Pavlik fight, and it was against a guy 17 yrs younger than him, he still has his reflexes and can put his combo's together, IMO B-Hop should be ranked higher on the ATG list than Mosley, Shane is an ATG for sure, but no way the greatest fighter ever, not by a long shot, he had an ugly period in his career and honestly i didn't think he won a fight from his first lost against Forrest all the way till he fought Estrada (both Forrest fights, a NC with Raul Marquez, IMO DLH won the rematch, and the two losses to Wright), so thats 2 losses back to back followed by a no contest, then followed by 3 more losses , so technically he didn't win a fight in 3 yrs, what he's managed to do since then has been amazing (win over Collazo, close fight with Cotto, and the Margarito fight) but all the other bit combined makes him fall short