Thread: B Hop is Overrated

Originally Posted by blegit

When I read this title I thought I had come from the bar and drank too much. But then I remembered...I don't drink! WTF! Bernard Hopkins overrated?! Really Well, we know who on this forum doesn't watch boxing. Outside of the RJJ fight name one fight in Bernard's career where he was beat without controversy? YOU CAN'T!!! I am no BHop fan at all! But I know what the truth is and I know Bernard is definitely not overrated. That is just stupid. Who is the only man to beat Kelly Pavlik and with ease at that? Who is the only man to KO Felix Trinidad? Who is the only man to KO, not TKO, Oscar De la Hoya? Who is the only man to KO Glen Johnson? Who is the only man in boxing history to go defend his middleweight title 20 times successfully? Who gave Joe Calzaghe his closest and only controversial fight at 44 years old? Anybody who thinks Calzaghe won that fight convincingly is drunk off hatred. He may have won but that fight was razor thin either way. What is overrated about Bernard Hopkins Anybody can break down any fighter with bullcrap hating stats and in attempts to lessen his status. But how do you take away the accomplishments? I challenge anyone who thinks BHop is overrated to name a fighter who they think is better at middleweight and I will show how that fighter is overrated. That game is too easy to do when you don't have to show their accomplishments and belittle "all" of them with facts. Tarver was the undisputed light heavweight champ, Winky was the most avoided fighter in the game, Pavlik was the undefeated KO steamrolling middleweight champ, and BHop was over 40 years old beating all these guys. Name one guy who you think is better than BHop and its an easy picking to belittle their status just as well. RJJ, PBF, Pac, they all can be belittle but the argument will sound just as stupid as...Bernard Hopkins is overrated.

There is no denying that Hopkins has been an excellent fighter over the years. I really do think that for the last half a decade he has been less and less impressive and more and more about trying to seek size advantages over his opponents.

Taylor gave him fits. That's a fact, Taylor as we all know isn't all that good.

Tarver was indeed "the man", but he was somewhat of a one trick pony. He got Jones Jr at the right time, and hardly has the most fascinating of resumes.

Winky was somewhat flabby at MW, fighting as a LHW was just disgusting. Winky was huffing all over the place with that tire around his waist.

Pavlik too, was way beyond what he should have been fighting at. But regardless, Hopkins did look very good doing what he did.

Calzaghe too was going up in weight. And it was a relatively close fight but Calzaghe clearly beat a fighter whose only strategy was to pot shot, hold and try to cheat down the stretch. It was convincing enough, but closer than most of Calzaghe's fights so Hopkins deserves some credit there.

I liked Hopkins a lot, but the last few years have been a case of manipulating the weight game. Tarver was the only opponent where Hopkins didn't try to do it.

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

................

Is there a punchline to this thread?

I'm waiting for it also..

One of the points was "he's a dull fighter".. well sorry he doesn't entertain you, but he still wins.. Exciting has nothing to do with being overrated/underrated..

Same goes for being a "whiner" and being a "dirty fighter"..

Gatti was an exciting fighter, but he's on no P4P list.

Hopkins was by no means in his prime against Jones, and Jones still said it was one of his hardest fights.

He floored Calzaghe early and many believe he won that fight.. If he had won two more rounds, where some rounds could have gone eithe rway, down the stretch he would have won the fight.. Against the undefeated Joe Calzaghe, i wouldn't say that is overrated.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by blegit

When I read this title I thought I had come from the bar and drank too much. But then I remembered...I don't drink! WTF! Bernard Hopkins overrated?! Really Well, we know who on this forum doesn't watch boxing. Outside of the RJJ fight name one fight in Bernard's career where he was beat without controversy? YOU CAN'T!!! I am no BHop fan at all! But I know what the truth is and I know Bernard is definitely not overrated. That is just stupid. Who is the only man to beat Kelly Pavlik and with ease at that? Who is the only man to KO Felix Trinidad? Who is the only man to KO, not TKO, Oscar De la Hoya? Who is the only man to KO Glen Johnson? Who is the only man in boxing history to go defend his middleweight title 20 times successfully? Who gave Joe Calzaghe his closest and only controversial fight at 44 years old? Anybody who thinks Calzaghe won that fight convincingly is drunk off hatred. He may have won but that fight was razor thin either way. What is overrated about Bernard Hopkins Anybody can break down any fighter with bullcrap hating stats and in attempts to lessen his status. But how do you take away the accomplishments? I challenge anyone who thinks BHop is overrated to name a fighter who they think is better at middleweight and I will show how that fighter is overrated. That game is too easy to do when you don't have to show their accomplishments and belittle "all" of them with facts. Tarver was the undisputed light heavweight champ, Winky was the most avoided fighter in the game, Pavlik was the undefeated KO steamrolling middleweight champ, and BHop was over 40 years old beating all these guys. Name one guy who you think is better than BHop and its an easy picking to belittle their status just as well. RJJ, PBF, Pac, they all can be belittle but the argument will sound just as stupid as...Bernard Hopkins is overrated.

There is no denying that Hopkins has been an excellent fighter over the years. I really do think that for the last half a decade he has been less and less impressive and more and more about trying to seek size advantages over his opponents.

Taylor gave him fits. That's a fact, Taylor as we all know isn't all that good.

Tarver was indeed "the man", but he was somewhat of a one trick pony. He got Jones Jr at the right time, and hardly has the most fascinating of resumes.

Winky was somewhat flabby at MW, fighting as a LHW was just disgusting. Winky was huffing all over the place with that tire around his waist.

Pavlik too, was way beyond what he should have been fighting at. But regardless, Hopkins did look very good doing what he did.

Calzaghe too was going up in weight. And it was a relatively close fight but Calzaghe clearly beat a fighter whose only strategy was to pot shot, hold and try to cheat down the stretch. It was convincing enough, but closer than most of Calzaghe's fights so Hopkins deserves some credit there.

I liked Hopkins a lot, but the last few years have been a case of manipulating the weight game. Tarver was the only opponent where Hopkins didn't try to do it.

Thing is had Trinidad,Pavlik,De La Hoya,Winky Wright all beaten Hopkins nobody would mention the weight thing. While ever Pacquiao is winning the weight thing won't be an issue but soon as he gets his head weaved into the canvas it won't be he just werent good enough it will be the weight he werent a true light welter or welter this is just a example.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...eally-won.html

Just not worth it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwTGG...eature=related

Originally Posted by Truth

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

Originally Posted by Truth

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

Can we say LUCKY punch? he was getting worked.

Forrest could whoop anyone's ass almost. Jermaine may just be known down the road as the man who could only beat one man.

Yes, he LOST the decision. If he didn't hug the last 4 rounds and fake all those low blows, we could have actually had a fight on our hands. But he just wanted to make it out of the fight.

He is a neat boxer... sort of. But not P4P #1 by any means at all. One win over a MW at a catchweight does not merit this status. Dawson win KO him, Tarvoris Cloud will KO him, Kessler, Glen Johnson, Abraham, all guys who would beat him today..

I can see both sides to this. I don't think he is overrated, I think he is/was awesome and every bit as good as the majority make him out to be..BUT..... I do think that his reign at Middleweight saw him fight really average opposition. The only guy he was ever expected to have any trouble with was Jones who beat him. I give him credit for beating Johnson, who was unbeaten at the time, but lets face it Johnson is no ATG. His losses against Taylor also tarnish his legacy imo

Much like Cazlaghe and Jones I think HE is great, but his RESUME is not

I Love people bringing up guys who could beat Bernard today Duh, he's 44 he needs the right type of fight to win one where he can fight at his pace

Dude, you can say what you want, you can pick apart all his fights and opponents, say he's dull, boring, a dirty fighter, ect ect ect. You can say whatever you want.

The bottom line is, this guy is 45 years old and he's whipping top class opposition.

Bernard is the picture of what a great prizefighter should be. He was not blessed with great athletic ability, he's not super fast and he was never a big puncher. He got a late start in boxing. But he showed what hard work, dedication, and DISCIPLINE can do for you.

Bhop is one of the greatest of all time, no question. Bernard has forgotten more than most boxers will ever know about the sweet science.

Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

Are my eyes playing tricks on me or did the title say OVERRATED??


This guy is W49 L5 D1 Never been stopped

He lost his first world title bid on points to Roy Jones this is when every fighter Roy faced was getting sparked yet bernard made an argument of it and lost on points.

He then fought for his second chance at the IBF middleweight crown against Sergundo Mecado he was dropped twice once in the 5th and in the 7th yet fought hard enough to get the draw. In the rematch Bernard won to become IBF middleweight champion Mecado was no mug

John David jackson

Glenn Johnson We all know what Glenn has gone on to achieve Bernard is the only man to stop him.

Simon brown
Antwun Echols
Robert Allen
Syd Vanderpool
Carl Daniels
William Joppy
Howard Eastman

None of these guys were mugs and some were former world champs


He unified the middleweight division by beating

Keith Holmes WBC

Felix Trinidad WBA

Oscar De La Hoya WBO


He became the Light-heavyweight Kingpin by beating Antonio Tarver he also beat Winky Wright

He lost a close SD12 to Joe Calzaghe many think Bernard did enough to win me included

He then went on to totally outbox the next unbeaten big thing who was KTFO everything in his path Kelly Pavlik

Lets not forget alot of his big wins have come in his 40's he's now 44 soon to be 45

So OVERRATED i think not my friend

John David jackson - never the same after the beating he took from Castro... What a KO!!

Glen Johnson was never hurt in their fight.. Also he was not nearly as good as he got when he aged. He learned how to fight IN the ring.

All of Hopkins other big wins are from little guys moving up. Tito, DLH, Pavlik

He never liked to face big punchers after his brushes with KD early in his career. He cherry picks quite a bit. But, hey, I keep thinking he's at the end of his rope and he pulls off another win here and there.

My point is.. RIGHT NOW he is overrated... Past 4 years anyway.

I think he definitely will be HOF and deserves so. But he was never better than Calzaghge, Jones, Hagler, Lamotta, SRR..

We should really have some sort of code as to how to judge a boxer by.. You can play devil's advocate on any type of situation, whether it be the fact that he lost TWICE to Jermain Taylor, and then JT gets knocked out by Pavlik and loses a decision to him the second time.. and then BHOP puts on a masterclass vs Pavlik.. So anyone could say that because he beat Pavlik, the guy who beat Taylor twice, one by KO, the same guy that beat BHOP that it was just a stylistic difference in Bhop vs JT that was why Bhop lost.. or you could say that Pavlik was tailor-made for Bhop..

Depends on which side of the fence you're coming from..

You can say that DLH was beating Bhop but that Bhop landed a "lucky" shot and KO'd him.. There are plenty of Great boxers who were bailed out by "lucky" punches for a KO later in the fight..

It's a 10-12 round fight, just because you lost X amount of rounds and then landed a "lucky" punch doesn't make the win any less of a win. When talking about legacies and resume's records you look at the win/loss column..

In comparison to the Froch/Taylor fight, JT had it on the cards then got KO'd.. I never said Froch didn't deserve to win, but if we're going to discuss the fight, i felt Froch was beatable and that JT COULD beat him in the future.. but i'm not going to take anything away from Froch for boxing 12 full rounds even though he lost a number of them.

Lay off the haterade!

This is funny...BHOP isn't overrated unless someone rates him higher than Jones..

He should be rated higher than Jones.

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Originally Posted by Truth

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

Can we say LUCKY punch? he was getting worked.

Forrest could whoop anyone's ass almost. Jermaine may just be known down the road as the man who could only beat one man.

Yes, he LOST the decision. If he didn't hug the last 4 rounds and fake all those low blows, we could have actually had a fight on our hands. But he just wanted to make it out of the fight.

He is a neat boxer... sort of. But not P4P #1 by any means at all. One win over a MW at a catchweight does not merit this status. Dawson win KO him, Tarvoris Cloud will KO him, Kessler, Glen Johnson, Abraham, all guys who would beat him today..

The first part of this (the yellow part) has to be a wind up right?