Thread: Views on the 140 division now?

Is Kotelnik better than most expected? Is Alexander not quite as good?

How's Khan looking at 140 in your opinion? Interesting, i was reading Richard Schaefer talking about Khan and how he was fasting when he fought Prescott, for Ramadan. I thought he was but i'd never seen it confirmed. I'm glad in a way, because i remember watching his pre-fight interview in his dressing room, and i remember looking at my old man and saying 'He looks fucked'. In your opinion, how much of an effect did this have on his already poor punch resistance?

Would Marquez be a viable opponent for anyone at 140? Would everyone beat him? How good is Tim Bradley?

Where do Maidana and Ortiz come into it for you? Is Paulie finished. It's exciting, because there are a lot of similarly talented guys.

Sorry this thread has been brought on by me watching the Kotelnik fight. He was unlucky, i'll leave it at that

For me, Maidana is the top guy at 140. I have this conspiracy theory that all the top promoters know it and they are doing their best to keep him away. Imagine if he had a top promoter and manager like Khan or the others, his career would have been guided far better than it has. His record is better than the other guys IMO, in both who he has fought and the results. He beat Ortiz when he was percieved as the next golden boy, went over to Kotelnik when many would have steered clear and beat Cayo who was unbeaten and regarded as a hot prospect. If he hadn't been screwed over I think he would be 140 king by now.

After him comes Khan, but I don't think we'll see him in any defining fights any time soon. His career is being very carefully moulded, so they are keeping him away from another loss very carefully. I can see him fighting JMM next, which might show us a little, but I fear it will be on Khans terms and give him a nice advantage.

Alexander looks behind Khan in development, so I think he should steer clear of the pack for now.

Bradley is very good, but I'm still undecided on him and how ready he is.

Kotelnik is going to turn into a very good journeyman, good fighter who will give you a workout for 12, but not spring too many suprises.

Ortiz has lost his fire and the seeds of doubt will have flourished even more since they sprung up in the Maidana fight. Another battle and he'll quit again. He's the one I'd want if I was one of the guys mentioned.

Originally Posted by ono

Is Kotelnik better than most expected? Is Alexander not quite as good?

How's Khan looking at 140 in your opinion? Interesting, i was reading Richard Schaefer talking about Khan and how he was fasting when he fought Prescott, for Ramadan. I thought he was but i'd never seen it confirmed. I'm glad in a way, because i remember watching his pre-fight interview in his dressing room, and i remember looking at my old man and saying 'He looks fucked'. In your opinion, how much of an effect did this have on his already poor punch resistance?

Would Marquez be a viable opponent for anyone at 140? Would everyone beat him? How good is Tim Bradley?

There is good possibility, but lets be honest Ono he was getting put down prior to that by the likes of Willie Limond, his chin is still a problem for me going way back the am's where he was doing a breakdance v Craig Watson.


Where do Maidana and Ortiz come into it for you? Is Paulie finished. It's exciting, because there are a lot of similarly talented guys.

Sorry this thread has been brought on by me watching the Kotelnik fight. He was unlucky, i'll leave it at that

I think the last month or so has shown the 140 division to be a bit overrated imo, Alexander is nothing special and very one dimensional for me I have watched him twice and has no plan b or c, he sticks to what he does best and on Saturday that wasn't good enough and like I have said against a bigger puncher he would of been stopped.

Personally I would like to see Alexander v Ortiz that would be a good fight and I would favour Oritz. Bradley is number 1 and Khan number 2 right now but Khan has the skills and one of the best jabs in boxing right now and can beat anyone at 140 by being disciplined and his chin will not have to come into question for me.

But we will see in the future...

Oh and for Paulie, see what I said about Kotelnik. Same applies.

I think most would beat JMM, but for eveyone of them, he is that good of a fighter you could never guarantee it. But I think his wear and tear will let him down any fight now.

Originally Posted by 0james0

For me, Maidana is the top guy at 140. I have this conspiracy theory that all the top promoters know it and they are doing their best to keep him away. Imagine if he had a top promoter and manager like Khan or the others, his career would have been guided far better than it has. His record is better than the other guys IMO, in both who he has fought and the results. He beat Ortiz when he was percieved as the next golden boy, went over to Kotelnik when many would have steered clear and beat Cayo who was unbeaten and regarded as a hot prospect. If he hadn't been screwed over I think he would be 140 king by now.

After him comes Khan, but I don't think we'll see him in any defining fights any time soon. His career is being very carefully moulded, so they are keeping him away from another loss very carefully. I can see him fighting JMM next, which might show us a little, but I fear it will be on Khans terms and give him a nice advantage.

Alexander looks behind Khan in development, so I think he should steer clear of the pack for now.

Bradley is very good, but I'm still undecided on him and how ready he is.

Kotelnik is going to turn into a very good journeyman, good fighter who will give you a workout for 12, but not spring too many suprises.

Ortiz has lost his fire and the seeds of doubt will have flourished even more since they sprung up in the Maidana fight. Another battle and he'll quit again. He's the one I'd want if I was one of the guys mentioned.

I think Maidana is average, well average is a bit harsh not average but for me no where near number 1, v Ortiz he was getting beat well until Ortiz for me showed he had no bottle, the Kotelnik fight was very close no way was that a robbery imo.

I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.

I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.

It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.

Originally Posted by 0james0

I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.

I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.

It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.

he's really not that fast, but I agree Khan still has enough defensive liabilities that Maidana could still catch him if Khan didn't have a really good night. I think this leaves TImothy Bradley as the best guy in the division. I think he outboxes Maidana all night.

Bradley may have troubles with Khan because like Pacquiao he has physical abilities and a coach who implements those abilities to near perfection against each guy he faces, but I think Bradley is by far the most well rounded fighter in the pack, its unfortunate that he is the least gifted.

Yea, I'm surprised people are sold on Khan. I think Bradley is the top guy and then everyone else has questions to answer after him. Kotelnik is DEFINITELY better then what I gave him credit for though, I am going to have to rewatch his fight with Khan. Khan though wasn't that impressive versus Paulie, he overwhelmed him with firepower but his defense is still porous imo. They are putting him in the same situation over and over again and then I guess just going to hope he does well against someone who can actually exploit his defensive woes.

Alexander, well he needs work but he already had the Bradley U Next shirt printed I guess. I still think he's on equal footing with Khan if not over Khan. ``

Originally Posted by amat

Yea, I'm surprised people are sold on Khan. I think Bradley is the top guy and then everyone else has questions to answer after him. Kotelnik is DEFINITELY better then what I gave him credit for though, I am going to have to rewatch his fight with Khan. Khan though wasn't that impressive versus Paulie, he overwhelmed him with firepower but his defense is still porous imo. They are putting him in the same situation over and over again and then I guess just going to hope he does well against someone who can actually exploit his defensive woes.

Alexander, well he needs work but he already had the Bradley U Next shirt printed I guess. I still think he's on equal footing with Khan if not over Khan. ``

I think Khan did very well against Malignaggi, and he was really the first guy to hit Paulie at will, even Hatton didn't dominate him in the same way and I think Hatton was an incredible 140 pounder even when he came back down.

I just watched the Khan-Kotelnik fight today, and obviously there are flaws with Khan, and he wasn't really able to get through Kotelnik's guard, but it reminded me a lot of Pacquiao-Clottey. He really used angles, movement, and combinations quite effectively to subdue maybe a more accurate, but less active opponent. I also think he did a nice job of going to the body and keeping Kotelnik off balance by constantly throwing something at him. The big advantage Khan and Pacquiao have are speed and endurance. Not many guys are going to be able to deal with their speed for a whole fight, in order to do so would require an enormous amount of concentration which in turn takes a lot of energy. I didn't see that from Alexander, I think the height desparity with the fact that Khan is more technical than him, and he has a coach who will implement the right strategy makes me believe he will outbox Alexander easier than many people might suspect. Bradley however, is constantly changing heights, keeping his feet moving, using angles and keeping busy himself. He is also relatively slick which is sometimes the only way to circumvent blinding speed. The thing that I worry about with Bradley is a fast counterpuncher like Holt or Judah. Bradley can use the fact that Khan is a front runner to nullify that speed by setting traps, but against guys like Judah and when he faced Holt, Bradley had to close the gap, which he sometimes does quite wildly, and that sets him up for being countered by a big shot. Luckily both Judah and Holt don't have mental fortitude to fight at their sharpest for 12 rounds or I would consider them favorites against Bradley. But there is a certain guy 7 pounds up that I think would beat Bradley everytime because he does everything better than Tim, and he has every physical advantage.

140 is one of the most exciting divisions in the sport.

I think Bradley is clearly the best, and if I had to rank the top fighters in the division it would probably look something like this:

1. Bradley
2. Alexander/Khan
4. Maidana
5. Kotelnik (or JMM if he chooses to fight at 140)

However, any of the top 4 could turn out to be the best fighter in the long-run. I'm less sold on Maidana than most people are though.

A few facts on Amir Khan.

-He once sparred a round with Pacquiao without throwing a punch and Pacquiao was still hurt badly.

-He taught a prime iron Mike Tyson how to give off an aura of invincibility when he was still in his mother's womb.

-Money Mayweather avoids being in the same US state as Amir because he knows he can get his first loss even without being in the same boxing ring.

-Muhammad Ali has been considering dropping "the greatest" moniker ever since Amir was born in '86 feeling that only Amir was worthy of that title.

-Amir has his boxing moments even when he's not boxing.

-Roach's damaged brain is healing at 1% everyday just by hearing Amir's words being spoken.

-Oscar De La Hoya rallied in the 12th to give a great boxing round against Quartey because Amir willed it from his home in the UK when Amir was 12.

-George Foreman beat Michael Moorer because Amir was his inspiration not God.

-Sugar Ray Robinson on his deathbed lamented that he never got the chance to meet Amir to learn a few tricks from Amir on boxing.

- B-Hop said he lasted this long in the fight game just by picking up 3 of Amir's moves in the ring.

-The real reason the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight was delayed was because May and Pac didn't want to overshadow any of Amir's fights that were close to the proposed dated and both didn't have permission by Amir to fight.

-Amir's legend precedes him, the way lightning precedes thunder.

Amir is the greatest boxer in the world.

It's amazing how perceptions of Khan have changed. A year ago there were only a handful of people who supported him on this forum.

Originally Posted by amat

Yea, I'm surprised people are sold on Khan. I think Bradley is the top guy and then everyone else has questions to answer after him. Kotelnik is DEFINITELY better then what I gave him credit for though, I am going to have to rewatch his fight with Khan. Khan though wasn't that impressive versus Paulie, he overwhelmed him with firepower but his defense is still porous imo. They are putting him in the same situation over and over again and then I guess just going to hope he does well against someone who can actually exploit his defensive woes.

Alexander, well he needs work but he already had the Bradley U Next shirt printed I guess. I still think he's on equal footing with Khan if not over Khan. ``

I disagree mate. I think he simply wasn't bothered about being hit by Paulie. I think he dominated him more than Hatton and probably even Cotto did. Cotto beat him up, but Paulie was still in the fight for the most part. I agree with Bradley being the top guy. He's improved an awful lot over the last 2 years.

I was impressed by Alexander against Witter, because even though i've never really rated Witter, he does have a difficult style to look good against. I was less impressed with him against Urango, although the uppercut was spectacular. I wasn't impressed with him at all on Saturday. Could be a case of over-looking Kotelnik, but the fact that Urango was running him close prior to being ko'd should tell us that he isn't quite at that level yet. I think Khan is too busy for him. He might not hurt Alexander, but like Taeth said, they aren't many who can beat that style, mainly because of the angles and the speed and the output. Same with Pacquiao, and to an extent even Calzaghe.

With that in mind, i still think Bradley beats Khan.

How do people think Marquez would go on against Alexander and Bradley? I think he'd beat Alexander fairly handily.

Originally Posted by ono

How do people think Marquez would go on against Alexander and Bradley? I think he'd beat Alexander fairly handily.

And me. I think experience vs inexperience would show

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by 0james0

I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.

I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.

It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.

he's really not that fast, but I agree Khan still has enough defensive liabilities that Maidana could still catch him if Khan didn't have a really good night. I think this leaves TImothy Bradley as the best guy in the division. I think he outboxes Maidana all night.

Bradley may have troubles with Khan because like Pacquiao he has physical abilities and a coach who implements those abilities to near perfection against each guy he faces, but I think Bradley is by far the most well rounded fighter in the pack, its unfortunate that he is the least gifted.

When I say speed, I don't mean in the Khan/ Malinagi 100 punches a second mould, more of the speed he throws his power shots. He has such snap on them and they come from different angles.

I'm still not convinced on Khans power, I think it's more the volume of punches that overwhelms fighters.I don't think Kotlenik got hurt once by Khan, haven't seen the fight for a while, but I remember lots of punches to the gloves by Khan.