Thread: Lineal Champions

Can someone provide me with a list of the current lineal champs? My question really is how does a new lineage develop?

Say, for the junior middleweight division, Winky retired, and since then there hasn't been a new lineal champ. Would Cotto have to face Dzinziruk or Angulo (assuming everyone agrees they are the next top two opponents) for a new lineal champ to emerge in that division?

Is Floyd the lineal champ at welterweight because he beat Shane? Is Pacquiao the new lineal champ because he's beat every top ten fighter at welter weight other than Ortiz and Floyd is essentially retired?

How about super middleweight? If Ward beats Abraham and Froch beats Johnson, is the winner of a Ward v. Froch fight the new lineal champ? Or does the winner have to face Bute to become the lineal champ?

Appreciate any help.

Thanks.

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A new linage can develop when it has been lost through retirement or a fighter completely leaves the division. You produce the new MAN by pitting the no.1 against the no.2 (The Ring play the no.1 against the no.3 in some cases).

Floyd is the lineal welterweight champ. You can easily trace the line through Baldomir-Judah-Spinks-Mayorga-Forrest-Mosley etc...

If Ward and Froch are ranked 1st and 2nd after their next fights, then their match could start a new linage. I would be amazed if anyone, including The Ring, wasn't in agreement that these two are ranked 1st and 2nd should they win the Super Six Semi-finals.

Everyone seems to use the Ring ratings at the moment, however, their actual linage is flawed in some divisons. The magazine stopped rating fighters for a period during the 90s (it went out of business). When they restarted they IGNORED some of their own history. Which created nonsense in the lightheavy, featherweight and flyweight divisions. Hence, some lineal lines are currently disputed.

The current lineal champs, as near as I can figure, would be

Sergio Martinez who beat Pavlik who beat Jermaine who beat BHOP who had begun a new line.

JMM who beat Casamayor who beat Chico Corrales who beat JL Castillo who had arguably begun a new line when he defeated Casamyor (IIRC)

Floyd who beat Baldomir who beat Judah who beat Corey Spinks who beat Mayorga who beat Vernon Forrest who beat Shane who began a new line after Tito moved up.

Wlad who arguably began a new, post Lennox Lewis line given all he has done.

Wonjonkam who stands in an uninterrupted line going back 35 years to Miguel Canto.

Giovanni Segura who defeated Ivan Calderon who was generally thought to have done enough to begin a new line at 108.

There is also a decent argument, I'm not persuaded, but it's a decent argument Nonito has such a claim at 118.

Those are the divisions where there is a lineal guy, or one can make a plausible case anyway.

My buddy Fenster notes that Ring will recognize a new champ when #'s 1 and 2 or sometimes 1-3 meet. But I think beginning a new lineal line requires more than that. My problem is how much more is fuzzy. The simple answer is enough so there really is no question. The fighter is recognized as THE MAN by acclimation.

By that standard Wlad may not have begun a new line due to the presence of his brother (that's an odd one).

As a simple rule, the lineal championship cannot be transferred except in the ring while the existing champ is active. In other words Manny cannot be the guy at 147 as long as Floyd is active unless Manny beats him.

At 168 I think the winner of the Super Six and Bute will likely face off to become the lineal guy.

Once the WBC broke from the NBA (soon to be the WBA) in the early 60's, the ring magazine would only crown a vacant world title when the two titles were unified. Once the IBF came around in the early 80's you had to win all 3. The Ring has never recognized the WBO. Now that they have their own system again they don't care about any of the alphabet bandits and rightfully so.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/pastchp.htm

Cyber Boxing Zone has a pretty fair lineage.

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

The current lineal champs, as near as I can figure, would be

Sergio Martinez who beat Pavlik who beat Jermaine who beat BHOP who had begun a new line.

JMM who beat Casamayor who beat Chico Corrales who beat JL Castillo who had arguably begun a new line when he defeated Casamyor (IIRC)

Floyd who beat Baldomir who beat Judah who beat Corey Spinks who beat Mayorga who beat Vernon Forrest who beat Shane who began a new line after Tito moved up.

Wlad who arguably began a new, post Lennox Lewis line given all he has done.

Wonjonkam who stands in an uninterrupted line going back 35 years to Miguel Canto.

Giovanni Segura who defeated Ivan Calderon who was generally thought to have done enough to begin a new line at 108.

There is also a decent argument, I'm not persuaded, but it's a decent argument Nonito has such a claim at 118.

Those are the divisions where there is a lineal guy, or one can make a plausible case anyway.

My buddy Fenster notes that Ring will recognize a new champ when #'s 1 and 2 or sometimes 1-3 meet. But I think beginning a new lineal line requires more than that. My problem is how much more is fuzzy. The simple answer is enough so there really is no question. The fighter is recognized as THE MAN by acclimation.

By that standard Wlad may not have begun a new line due to the presence of his brother (that's an odd one).

As a simple rule, the lineal championship cannot be transferred except in the ring while the existing champ is active. In other words Manny cannot be the guy at 147 as long as Floyd is active unless Manny beats him.

At 168 I think the winner of the Super Six and Bute will likely face off to become the lineal guy.

I know you are big on the original divisions, but, that said, is there a lineal champ at 140? Is Bradley the lineal champ when he beat Alexander? Or does he have to beat Khan? At 168, Froch and Bute are #1 and #2, I believe that that would create a lineage. I guess beating Bute would make someone the man though.

How many lineal titles has Nonito Donaire held so far?

Jaz and Galaxy were running the Saddoboxing ratings, I think it's a little out of date right now, but it contained lineal champs, in a more contemporary way than the Ring. worth a peek if you haven't seen them already.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...l-ratings.html

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

The current lineal champs, as near as I can figure, would be

Sergio Martinez who beat Pavlik who beat Jermaine who beat BHOP who had begun a new line.

JMM who beat Casamayor who beat Chico Corrales who beat JL Castillo who had arguably begun a new line when he defeated Casamyor (IIRC)

Floyd who beat Baldomir who beat Judah who beat Corey Spinks who beat Mayorga who beat Vernon Forrest who beat Shane who began a new line after Tito moved up.

Wlad who arguably began a new, post Lennox Lewis line given all he has done.

Wonjonkam who stands in an uninterrupted line going back 35 years to Miguel Canto.

Giovanni Segura who defeated Ivan Calderon who was generally thought to have done enough to begin a new line at 108.

There is also a decent argument, I'm not persuaded, but it's a decent argument Nonito has such a claim at 118.

Those are the divisions where there is a lineal guy, or one can make a plausible case anyway.

My buddy Fenster notes that Ring will recognize a new champ when #'s 1 and 2 or sometimes 1-3 meet. But I think beginning a new lineal line requires more than that. My problem is how much more is fuzzy. The simple answer is enough so there really is no question. The fighter is recognized as THE MAN by acclimation.

By that standard Wlad may not have begun a new line due to the presence of his brother (that's an odd one).

As a simple rule, the lineal championship cannot be transferred except in the ring while the existing champ is active. In other words Manny cannot be the guy at 147 as long as Floyd is active unless Manny beats him.

At 168 I think the winner of the Super Six and Bute will likely face off to become the lineal guy.

I know you are big on the original divisions, but, that said, is there a lineal champ at 140? Is Bradley the lineal champ when he beat Alexander? Or does he have to beat Khan? At 168, Froch and Bute are #1 and #2, I believe that that would create a lineage. I guess beating Bute would make someone the man though.

In my view there clearly is NOT a lineal guy at 140 unless it is Manny. The winner of Bradley-Kahn would probably do it. Bute and the winner of the super six definately has done enough in my view. 1 vs 2 creates a RING champ. I'm not sure that's always enough for a new lineage to begin.

Originally Posted by killersheep

Jaz and Galaxy were running the Saddoboxing ratings, I think it's a little out of date right now, but it contained lineal champs, in a more contemporary way than the Ring. worth a peek if you haven't seen them already.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...l-ratings.html

Pretty good I think. Thanks!