Thread: Is mike Tyson that great ?

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Originally Posted by BIG H

People that discredit Tyson, would not have done so after the Spinks fight. I don't remember any of the criticisms that we now have, being made back then...which means they are based on what went after that. Well that's not looking at his prime! If Tyson retired after the Spinks fight, I'd like to bet not many people would believe that Bowe, Lewis or anybody else since Tyson would've beaten him. Although people try to be objective and forget what he became and all his flaws/weaknesses, these things (that happened after hiS prime) are always (even subsconsciously) taken into consideration imo.

Fact is if he retired after the Spinks fight, everybody has him top 5 all time heavyweight!
(imo of course)

I remeber pulling Britkid up on this years ago. He said he had Tyson as number 12 all time heavyweight. I asked him where he had him on that list back in 1988 and he said top 3. To which I said, well he is still top 3 then!!

But that's how we assess EVERYONE! Looking back. The fact is had he retired after the Spinks fight everyone would have said that's the shortest, least complete heavyweight championship career we've ever seen, WTF?

Prime is prime and after Williams Tyson was damaged goods. If you are looking at peoples' prime you have to judge him between 1986 and 1989. How many world title fights did your beloved John L Sullivan have? Savaldor Sanchez was World champion for 2 years, his death did not change how good he was, so why should what happend to Tyson?

BTW being Lineal champion and that being the shortest reign ever IF he retired after the Spinks fight does not mean he wasn't great. A belt does not make you great.

Thats bullshit big h His lose to Douglas was a close to his prime and i don't give a shit what anybody says about that. You could also say that Lennox lewis never lost in his prime either because one was early and in his career and one was late. The only loses i don't count against a fighter is when they are shot and so far off prime that they are a name and not a fighter anymore.

Sanchez never got the shit kicked out of him , loads of times .

Sanchez died before he had the chance to.

I'm pretty sure Mike Tyson thought he'd wind up dead before 30 and that must of been key to his mental outlook. He was always prone to self-distruct.
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Originally Posted by Mr140

Thats bullshit big h His lose to Douglas was a close to his prime and i don't give a shit what anybody says about that. You could also say that Lennox lewis never lost in his prime either because one was early and in his career and one was late. The only loses i don't count against a fighter is when they are shot and so far off prime that they are a name and not a fighter anymore.

He was a mess going into the Douglas fight. He had just got divorced, he hadn't trained, some people claimed he was taking drugs. That was not the real Mike Tyson in that ring and imo we never saw him again. Cracks had started in his mental state as early as the Bruno fight, he had all the contract issues with King and Cayton amongst other things mentioned.

He was the last Heavyweight to make the world tune in and get excited. More so than Lewis or Vitali could ever claim to. Now, you can argue the competition he faced, but noone did more for the publicity of the sport than him in the modern era save Ali.

There is no doubt that the MIke Tyson from 1986-89 was an awesome sight to behold, like big George in 1973-74 he was almost indestructible, lifestyle, the pressures of immediate fame and fortune simply got the better of him. You cannot deny his complete domination of the division in this time, his loss to Douglas was the beginning of the end. You can only beat who they put in front of you and Tyson did that in spectacular fashion, is he a top 10 ATG Heavyweight? That remains open for debate.

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

There is no doubt that the MIke Tyson from 1986-89 was an awesome sight to behold, like big George in 1973-74 he was almost indestructible, lifestyle, the pressures of immediate fame and fortune simply got the better of him. You cannot deny his complete domination of the division in this time, his loss to Douglas was the beginning of the end. You can only beat who they put in front of you and Tyson did that in spectacular fashion, is he a top 10 ATG Heavyweight? That remains open for debate.

I think he came back relatively well after Douglas, I think the real nail in the coffin was 3 years in prison. Tyson was a high action pressure fighter, you don't come out of jail doing exactly what you were doing a third of a decade earlier and Tyson though still immensely strong and relatively quick, was clearly never the same. I don't believe Holyfield would have had much of a chance against prime Tyson, jail brought Tyson down to the level of most of the other top fighters. Before that when fully prepared he was a level above. The only person that beat him prior to jail was himself. If you don't prepare for a fight, then you don't win and by all accounts Tyson did not prepare for Douglas. Douglas was in the right place at the right time and of course lightning did not strike twice for Buster Douglas. It was a one off. Tyson came back and beat up Ruddock and showed that he was still a force.

The myth of Mike Tyson was that he could beat up any HW great at their best from Ali, Lewis, Holyfield, Holmes, Foreman came from spectacularly knocking out guys like Trevor Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, 39 year old Holmes, and blownup LHW Spinks that caught Holmes at the right time.

Prime for prime and even with Rooney and D'amato in his corner I don't give him that much of a shot of beating them. Knocking out mediocre opposition is 1 thing, trying to do it against all time greats is another. Tyson wasn't prime in his fights with Holyfield and Lewis, but neither were those 2. Holyfield was considered to be a shot fighter in '96 and Lewis was 37 years old and a year from retirement when he fought Tyson.

Tyson was not on Holyfield level and would never beat him ever. Tyson had nothing to really throw Holyfeild off and i am sick od this of Tyson was not prime. Holyfeild was older then him had hart problems and i also believe hep b but he could still win fights you know why because he is a atg.

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

The myth of Mike Tyson was that he could beat up any HW great at their best from Ali, Lewis, Holyfield, Holmes, Foreman came from spectacularly knocking out guys like Trevor Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, 39 year old Holmes, and blownup LHW Spinks that caught Holmes at the right time.

Prime for prime and even with Rooney and D'amato in his corner I don't give him that much of a shot of beating them. Knocking out mediocre opposition is 1 thing, trying to do it against all time greats is another. Tyson wasn't prime in his fights with Holyfield and Lewis, but neither were those 2. Holyfield was considered to be a shot fighter in '96 and Lewis was 37 years old and a year from retirement when he fought Tyson.

The Lewis win over Tyson was pretty meaningless. The Holyfield fights were more meaningful, but considering he was facing a man who had spent 3 years in prison, it really wasn't the same Tyson by a long shot. I don't think the Holyfield or the Lewis wins mean all that much in the great scheme of things. Tyson in his own way had aged quicker than any of them and 3 years in prison would erode the skills of most people.

That's the thing with Tyson's career. There were just so many holes in it because of mentalism or jail. All you really have to go on is a period of time when his skills were on fire and he was hungry and for that time he was truly astonishing to watch. It's anyones guess how he would have fared against other greats. I think he would have hurt most of them and been too much and you probably disagree, but that's all we have on stuff like this. Personal perceptions and opinions based on how we see things.

Originally Posted by Mr140

Greynotsold that is the dumbest post i have ever seen posted ever. We in saddo are all dumber from reading let god have mercy on your soul when you die dude.

That is the funniest comeback I have ever heard. I was in tears at work reading that. You have made my world a happier place with that response and for that I am eternally grateful. Your reply could be used on his comment about Roy Jones being only an 8 round fighter and not being an ATG.

Thanks master i just don't understand his hate for the heavies and Ali for that matter as well.

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

The myth of Mike Tyson was that he could beat up any HW great at their best from Ali, Lewis, Holyfield, Holmes, Foreman came from spectacularly knocking out guys like Trevor Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, 39 year old Holmes, and blownup LHW Spinks that caught Holmes at the right time.

Prime for prime and even with Rooney and D'amato in his corner I don't give him that much of a shot of beating them. Knocking out mediocre opposition is 1 thing, trying to do it against all time greats is another. Tyson wasn't prime in his fights with Holyfield and Lewis, but neither were those 2. Holyfield was considered to be a shot fighter in '96 and Lewis was 37 years old and a year from retirement when he fought Tyson.

It's petty much fact that you can rip any boxers resume to pieces so including the 'great' names you have mentioned.

I still think the Tyson that was going to fight Holyfield before he went in prison would have just about beat Holyfield in early 1990's before he went to prison. He still had enough from what we saw of him against Rudduck.