Thread: Youth culture - Race etc etc - David Starkey debate!

Quite an interesting debate here and I think a lot of people will agree with David Starkey. Personally, I think he makes some relevant points, but in the main, what he says is very dangerous, divisive and counterproductive. Saying David Lammy ‘Sounds White’ I mean WTF does that mean or insinuate!!

My take on it is that is ‘Youth’ thing not a ‘Black’ thing, but I think there is a reason why a certain group of black kids are rioting, looting etc. It’s because they have no sense of pride for being British and no feeling that there is any hope for them or that working hard and being a good person will actually allow them to have the opportunities they deserve. And I think they probably have a right to feel this way. We need to find a way to get people feeling like a community and being proud of their community and wanting to improve it not destroy it. We need for black kids from Peckham, to have the same opportunities as White kids from Oxford.

I’ve been out of work for a while and I know how easy it is to feel detached and that nobody gives a shit or wants to help you (because they don’t) As long as kids feel there is no hope and they have no respect (i.e. from the police who constantly harass them) etc, why we would we expect them to act any differently? It’s very easy for people to sit in their Ivory towers casting judgement on people, but they don’t live in the neighbourhoods that these kids do and have to wake up every day thinking ‘what’s the point!’

I’m not saying what is going on in our society isn’t completely wrong and that anybody found guilty needs to be dealt with, ‘m just saying we need to actually think a bit more about why this is happening!!

179 views and not single comment - some irony in that taking into context the subject.

I haven't watched the video, but I'll try to comment when I have.

I will say that most people are pretty hesitant to discuss issues like race in the current, overly PC climate. It seems to me that many people are afraid of being labeled as bigoted or something just for speaking their mind.

I'm not from the UK, but I'm fairly familiar with racial conflict and rioting. The area I grew up, the West End of the Inland Empire, of Southern California, has seen riots and race related violence for 40 years. When I was young, 1970, thereabouts it was white vs mexican, then, a few years later, it was the 'cholo' mexicans against the 'white' mexicans. I was in 3rd grade the first time i got 'jumped', by 3 mexican kids.
In the late 70s my neighborhood changed and became, probably, 80% black and this was not the horizon expanding celebration of diversity that one might expect. It was no fun at all, but when you are 14, 15, 16 and like to fight...to quote Richie Giachetti, a good fight is a good fight. But I have friends that are still in prison over things that happened then. For many years I dealt with a lot of animosity, racially oriented, that grew out of that time and I can't and won't apologize for that: it was black guys and there actions that created that.
In Fontana, which was the next town east of where I lived, there was organized KKK activity, a march up Sierra Ave, as late as 1981. I'd guess that 3/4ths of the white guys I grew up with went to the penitentiary, and they came back Nazi Low Riders, with swastika tattoos. South Ontario is home to a very strong mexican gang, and Ralston st has been sending black guys to the pen since the 1950s, that I know of. I know a mexican guy with "Brown Pride" on his arms and a swastika on his chest.
The one thing everybody had in common was nothing: that was all most thought they had. That makes you angry, and I don't think it matters if you listen to rap, heavy metal or whatever, if nothing is all you think you have.
I find it interesting now, looking back, that there is race conflict among poor people on the streets and in the jails, and that we blame each other for our problems. And that the only time we can seem to get along and work together is in a rich man's army fighting some trumped up war.

where i live if you are black you are likely to get stared at a lot in public because most here are not used to seeing that particular darker shade of skin. you won't likely be called any names or treated badly because of the color of your skin, instead people will probably go out of their way to try and be friends with you before even getting to know your character. which might in a way speak a bit in itself. one thing for sure though, you'll be stared at.

now if you are a lighter shade of dark skin, but still more brown then white, and of native indian heritage, you will often be labelled lazy, dirty, a drain upon society and many other things by people from many age groups, and few will give you the benefit of any doubt about character, and will judge you on skin tone alone.

Different groups of humans have different cultural mindsets in terms of education, values, hard work, etc. You don't need a sociologist to tell you this, just observe everyday life if you're living in a multi-racial and multi-cultural society. Hell, just take a look at the various nations and their cultural values placed on this. Of course as someone said, uttering these in public can bring dire consequences and one will be labeled something they're not. But those peer reviewed academic journals I have read when doing reports when I was still in school have all confirmed this. While some political correctness is good, an over abundance of it stifles any reasonable solution or discussion to the problem for fear of being labeled a bigot for pointing out the obvious reasons. It is what it is.

You have four people sitting around trying to make this a race issue. Not one of them fully understands the problem, nor where to find the answers.

I havent watched the video yet but thought I'd just repost this as its pretty much on the money.

Originally Posted by AdamGB

Fuck no... nobody in Manchester gives a fuck about a gang leader in London (or all the places a Northerner couldn't give a fuck about, London is number one.) and you don't go straight for the 48 inch HD TVs, Bluray players, PS3s, XBOXs, Designer Sportswear etc if you're angry at the establishment.

The shooting may have been the catalyst that set all of this off, but it quickly degraded in to monkey see monkey do and opportunism from a bunch of ignorant, egotistical charvers who have an over inflated sense of entitlement and the exact opposite in the IQ department.

If our society wasn't fucked and so full of idiotic cunts who all think they should live like a premiership footballer without lifting a finger for it and who think that they are something special thanks to the shit media feeds them (see 'Geordie shore' etc) then this wouldn't be going on... regardless of the police dropping the ball and shooting some scumbag.

Only in the UK would people use £400 smart phones whilst wearing £100 tracksuits to organise riots because they 'live in poverty'... and only in the UK would people smash up businesses and set the economy back months or years because they can't get a job.

Drop them in the middle east for 6 months and see what they think.

The economy is hanging on by a thread... lets destroy small businesses and homes! Fucking clowns.

They also think that they're getting at the police... what?! by giving them 1000s in overtime and by increasing their job security by showing that deep budget cuts to the police force would be a bad idea? Idiots... they can lie to themselves and try to justify what they're doing all they want... but they're fooling nobody... and that includes themselves.

Bottom line is that these riots aren't a sudden reaction to anything... just a symptom of the fucked up attitude and ignorance that has infected most of this shitty generation.

Originally Posted by Memphis

I havent watched the video yet but thought I'd just repost this as its pretty much on the money.

Originally Posted by AdamGB

Fuck no... nobody in Manchester gives a fuck about a gang leader in London (or all the places a Northerner couldn't give a fuck about, London is number one.) and you don't go straight for the 48 inch HD TVs, Bluray players, PS3s, XBOXs, Designer Sportswear etc if you're angry at the establishment.

The shooting may have been the catalyst that set all of this off, but it quickly degraded in to monkey see monkey do and opportunism from a bunch of ignorant, egotistical charvers who have an over inflated sense of entitlement and the exact opposite in the IQ department.

If our society wasn't fucked and so full of idiotic cunts who all think they should live like a premiership footballer without lifting a finger for it and who think that they are something special thanks to the shit media feeds them (see 'Geordie shore' etc) then this wouldn't be going on... regardless of the police dropping the ball and shooting some scumbag.

Only in the UK would people use £400 smart phones whilst wearing £100 tracksuits to organise riots because they 'live in poverty'... and only in the UK would people smash up businesses and set the economy back months or years because they can't get a job.

Drop them in the middle east for 6 months and see what they think.

The economy is hanging on by a thread... lets destroy small businesses and homes! Fucking clowns.

They also think that they're getting at the police... what?! by giving them 1000s in overtime and by increasing their job security by showing that deep budget cuts to the police force would be a bad idea? Idiots... they can lie to themselves and try to justify what they're doing all they want... but they're fooling nobody... and that includes themselves.

Bottom line is that these riots aren't a sudden reaction to anything... just a symptom of the fucked up attitude and ignorance that has infected most of this shitty generation.

Yep - but what I'm saying is that the way to solve it is to find out why everything is so fucked.

Not a race thing, not a youth thing but a disaffected group of people who do not care and willing to take a chance to steal material things that they have been socialised to believe they need. Sad people.

Its a lot of their parents who should be hauled before the courts and made to co pay (they let them loose).

Originally Posted by Andre

Its a lot of their parents who should be hauled before the courts and made to co pay (they let them loose).

Some of them do not have parents, and the ones that do cannot control them in the first place.

I hated sociology classes in college, totally opposed to my major for the most part. Sociology blames society entirely to much, sure society influences you, but in the end you have free will to decide. I came from a war torn country, was a refugee in germany, we lived off whatever menial wage job the parents could get, yet I never stole, murdered, or did anything worse than gettin behind the wheel a bit intoxicated. Sure it sucks not being able to get a job in the field you want, or a job at all for that matter, but that gives you no right to go out and behave like these fools gave, just creates more problems. They're opportunistic jackasses

Okay, so my first post was before I watched the vid, and just a description of how I view racism and how that applies to the place where I live.

Now that I've watched the vid (well, I tried to but was also DLin porn so obv distracted ), I get a distinct disconnect between the words under that vid, and the actual vid itself. I can understand the words and maybe even in some context agree with them, but when I watch the vid I just hear a bitter old man going on and on about how it's all the black man's fault because they are black, and even how they Jedi Mind Tricked the stupid young white chavs to trying to be like them, so therefor it is all societies fault! But mostly the black mans.

Am I way off here? What is the consensus?

I'll watch it again later and pay better attention and maybe can make better sense of it. But got stuff to do right now. Bye!

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Andre

Its a lot of their parents who should be hauled before the courts and made to co pay (they let them loose).

Some of them do not have parents, and the ones that do cannot control them in the first place.

So like Andre said - they should be punished too for being pathetic.