Thread: Real worldchampions of each division?

Looks like there are perhaps 5,6 or even more worldchampions in each division of professional boxing. But what's your opinion about real champions of each division?

The Ring:

Heavyweight - Vladimir Klitschko (no doubt he or his brother)
Cruiserweight - Steve Cunningham (he might be but he has lost twice)
Light Heavyweight - Bernard Hopkins (ain't there really some fresh new one?)
Super Middleweight - Andre Ward

Now that's is a real question. They arranged so called "big six tournament" (or something like that). And do you really believe you can forget Lucian Bute? Really? It's most likely battle : Ward versus Bute.

Middleweight - Sergio Martinez (he deserved it)
Jr. Middleweight - Miguel Cotto (after painfully punished by Margarito and Pacman?)
Welterweight - Pacman (making a joke by protesting this decision?)
Jr. Welterweight - Amir Khan (very, very debatable issue)
Lightweight - Juan Manuel Marquez (another old man)
Jr. Lightweight - Mzonke Fana (after 4 defeats?)
Featherweight - Yuriorkis Gamboa (perhaps i have to accept this one)
Bantamweight - Nonito Donaire ( He really deserve it, can take Featherweight and Jr. Lightweight crown too)
Jr. Bantamweight - Omar Narvaez (haven't lost so far)
Flyweight - Pongsaklek Wonjongkam (10 years on list of The Ring)

Jr. Featherweight, Strawweight and Jr. Flyweight (no idea, no interested at all)

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As we may notice there are not many boxers who really are appreciated as real worldchampions of boxing without serious doubts. They are Manny Pacquaio, Nonito Donaire, Klitschko (Vladimir or Vitali?), Omar Narvaez (some doubts) and Sergio Martinez. All the rest have more or less some serious problems to convince the public (and media).

I'd agree with andre ward as super middleweight champ

Bute should be in third behind Froch

LEGITIMATE WORLD CHAMPIONS ARE:

Wladimir Klitschko at heavyweight
Bernard Hopkins at Light Heavyweight
winner of Ward vs Froch at Super middleweight
Marquez at lightweight

These are the Champions, The number of Titleholders is much bigger.

Originally Posted by erics44

I'd agree with andre ward as super middleweight champ

Bute should be in third behind Froch

Frog lost that Kessler-fight (Kessler is slow boxer) and actually in real life lost also that Dirrell-fight too. On the other hand Bute has destroyed more or less brutally all his opponents especially with horrible body punches. Let's put Frog to his own category as an bigmouth english mediahyped boxer.

Originally Posted by badr_hari

LEGITIMATE WORLD CHAMPIONS ARE:

Wladimir Klitschko at heavyweight
Bernard Hopkins at Light Heavyweight
winner of Ward vs Froch at Super middleweight
Marquez at lightweight

These are the Champions, The number of Titleholders is much bigger.

What about Pacman and Nonito Donaire?

Originally Posted by Matias64

Originally Posted by erics44

I'd agree with andre ward as super middleweight champ

Bute should be in third behind Froch

Frog lost that Kessler-fight (Kessler is slow boxer) and actually in real life lost also that Dirrell-fight too. On the other hand Bute has destroyed more or less brutally all his opponents especially with horrible body punches. Let's put Frog to his own category as an bigmouth english mediahyped boxer.

Frog and Bute have these common opponents - Magee and Tatevosyan.

Bute beats Tatevosyan PTS. Frog beats him KO 2. Bute beats ancient old Magee KO 10. FRog beats prime Magee KO 11.

Bute was virtually knocked out by Andrade. "Slow" Kessler beat Andrade 12 rounds to nil without breaking sweat. Bute has never faced a fighter on Kessler's level. Let alone - Taylor, Johnson, Pascal, Abraham or even Dirrell.

Bute's opposition is pathetic compared to Frog's. Fact.

Lets not get onto Bute in this discussion, he can only be discussed hypothetically in the super middle scenario and this thread should be dealing in the facts.

The legit champs at their weight classes are

BHOP - Light Heavy
WARD - Super Middle
MARTINEZ - Middleweight
PACQUIAO - Welterweight
MARQUEZ - Lightweight

If you beat one of these men you become the man.

HEAVYWEIGHTS will never be decided, you CANT say one Klit over the other.

CRUISERS I dont know enough about, no one excites me in that div, I dont really watch it.

LIGHT MIDDLE is really open.

LIGHT WELTER needs a Bradley-Khan to decide it, until that fight there is no true champ.

And below these weights im not educated enough to comment.

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Matias64

Originally Posted by erics44

I'd agree with andre ward as super middleweight champ

Bute should be in third behind Froch

Frog lost that Kessler-fight (Kessler is slow boxer) and actually in real life lost also that Dirrell-fight too. On the other hand Bute has destroyed more or less brutally all his opponents especially with horrible body punches. Let's put Frog to his own category as an bigmouth english mediahyped boxer.

Frog and Bute have these common opponents - Magee and Tatevosyan.

Bute beats Tatevosyan PTS. Frog beats him KO 2. Bute beats ancient old Magee KO 10. FRog beats prime Magee KO 11.

Bute was virtually knocked out by Andrade. "Slow" Kessler beat Andrade 12 rounds to nil without breaking sweat. Bute has never faced a fighter on Kessler's level. Let alone - Taylor, Johnson, Pascal, Abraham or even Dirrell.

Bute's opposition is pathetic compared to Frog's. Fact.

Froch has faced much better opposition than Bute and in my opinion, arguably than Ward. Fact. To say Froch is a fraud is utterly ridiculous at this point. I 100% agree with Fenster on this. Froch is a tough hombre whose skills in my opinion are underrated. Also, he's travelled far and wide to face the best competition. I thought he beat Kessler too in a close fight and if he would have fought harder the last few rounds, he would have beat Kessler. Kessler, slow? Where does that come from?

However, Bute's first fight with Andrade has been blown a little out of proportion in my opinion given that Bute avenged the questionable win by being the first person to stop him in their second fight. And for the first 10 rounds of their first fight, he was dominating it. He also dominated Sakio Bika. It wasn't close whereas Bika kept the fight with Ward close the whole time. Sakio Bika is a tough competitor.

I disagree that the Magee wins are comparable. Bute performed better against Magee all things considered. The Magee win you refer to by Froch though was a close affair up until when Froch won (96-95, 95-94, 97-92) whereas Bute dominated Magee from piller to post when they fought. I also disagree it was a post-prime Magee. In fact, there is a solid argument Magee was better when he fought Bute. He was coming off of a 10 fight winning streak with wins over durable Aramyan and Larsen (probably his best career win). When Magee fought Froch, he had just lost to Vitali Tyspko and Robin Reid.

All this said, I think Froch v. Bute is the likely fight because I think Ward beats Froch in the finals and won't travel to Montreal where the bigger money is. Froch, having lost, will be more willing to take the fight abroad for a nice check, and he's shown in the past, that he has no fear of fighting abroad.

Heavyweight - The Klitschkos
Cruiserweight - Steve Cunningham (only other person is Huck)
Light Heavyweight - Bernard Hopkins
Super Middleweight - Andre Ward
Middleweight - Sergio Martinez
Jr. Middleweight - No clear front runner
Welterweight - Pacquiao
Jr. Welterweight - Tim Bradley but he is absent, so Amir Khan
Lightweight - Brandon Rios
Jr. Lightweight - Weak division. Broner?
Featherweight - Yuriorkis Gamboa
Jr. Featherweight - Nishioka
Bantamweight - Donaire although Mares has an argument
Jr. Bantamweight - Omar Narvaez
Flyweight - Pongsaklek Wonjongkam

Heavyweight - Wladimir Klitschko
Cruiserweight - Steve Cunningham
Light Heavyweight - Bernard Hopkins
Super Middleweight - Andre Ward
Middleweight - Sergio Martinez
Jr. Middleweight - Miguel Cotto ( More deserving than the likes of Chavez Jr and Alvarez)
Welterweight - Manny Pacquiao
Jr. Welterweight - Timothy Bradley
Lightweight - Juan Manuel Marquez
Jr. Lightweight - Adrien Broner
Featherweight - Yuriorkis Gamboa
Jr. Featherweight - Toshiaki Nishioka
Bantamweight - Nonito Donaire
Jr. Bantamweight - Omar Narvaez ( Don't really watch divisions below Bantamweight)
Flyweight - Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
Jr Flyweight - Roman Gonzalez
Minimum Weight - Nkosinathi Joyi

Frog's performance in that Kessler-fight was poor. On the other hand Kessler is pretty slow boxer while Bute is much faster and has much more dynamite punches. Dirrell-fight proved that Frog's so called fastness is partly a myth. Dirrell was actually faster and little bit better in Nottingham. No need to say that Bute's punches are devastating while Frog's flailing not.

It's relatively easy to find that "super 6 tournament" is arranged to keep alive the myth of Froch as a potential rival for Andre Ward. He isn't. That tournament smells to much "western", making so called "UK-USA-dreamfight".

Originally Posted by J_C

Lets not get onto Bute in this discussion, he can only be discussed hypothetically in the super middle scenario and this thread should be dealing in the facts.

The legit champs at their weight classes are

BHOP - Light Heavy
WARD - Super Middle
MARTINEZ - Middleweight
PACQUIAO - Welterweight
MARQUEZ - Lightweight

If you beat one of these men you become the man.

HEAVYWEIGHTS will never be decided, you CANT say one Klit over the other.

CRUISERS I dont know enough about, no one excites me in that div, I dont really watch it.

LIGHT MIDDLE is really open.

LIGHT WELTER needs a Bradley-Khan to decide it, until that fight there is no true champ.

And below these weights im not educated enough to comment.

Really amazing you didn't mention Nonito Donaire at all though even The Ring put him 3rd on that P4P-list. I should put it even better: Manny is 1st, Donaire 2nd.

The real Ring champs are:

Heavy - Wladimir Klitschko
Cruiser - vacant. Need Cunningham to fight Huck or maybe Wlodarczyk would qualify.
Light-Heavy - Hopkins
Super-Middle - Ward/ Froch winner
Middle - Martinez
Jr. Middle - vacant. Need Cotto to fight Angulo or maybe Alvarez would qualify.
Welter - vacant. Need Pacquiao to fight Mayweather.
Jr. Welter - vacant. Need Khan to fight Bradley
Light - Marquez
Jr. Light - vacant. Not sure here, Fana should be gone due to inactivity & Burns moving up. Maybe Uchiyama/ Salgado rematch.
Feather - vacant. Need Gamboa to fight John.
Jr. Feather - vacant. Need Nishioka to fight Ramos.
Bantam - vacant. Need Donaire to fight Moreno or maybe Mares/ Agbeko 2 winner.
Jr. Bantam - vacant. Need Narvaez if he stays at 115 to fight Shimizu or a Shimizu/ Cazares rematch.
Fly - Wonjongkam
Jr. Fly - vacant. Need Hernandez to rematch Keb Baas or fight Nino
Straw - vacant. Need Joyi to fight Ioka.

Believe it or not and in some cases not liking it, the facts you put up front can't be denied but give Marquez his due because he is a really hard worker. Cool Click for you though.

I won't give much hope for Kessler or Frog against Bute. First: Kessler is slow, his technic and punchpower is good but not superb at all. Frog can run but his punch power is surprisingly weak. His style is flinging. But coz he's from Britain he's mediahyped. As we saw in that Kessler-fight Frog can't take much punches. With Bute he would run to field full of mines and ammunitions. Bute is fast too so Frog might not have that advantage. His cards in that poker ain't good enough. Bute's punch power is propably the best of all divisions and he's southpaw which makes live more dangerous to his opponents. And what's more dangerous for others, opponents many times can't even see where they are coming from.

But Andre Ward is different. His technic is excellent. He is the only one in supermiddleweight to unarm Bute. Just like Mayweather is the only in welterweight unarming Pacman.

About heavyweight it might be Vitali as the best. Wladimir's chin is weak, he can't defend very well against confident furioush attacker (remember Brewster I and Corrie Sanders). Vitali is much better defender and he can take punches, he is better in though situation. Wladimir sometimes use his jab so much his tank is empty very soon. That hardly happens to Vitali. Wladimir confuses easily in though situation.

I won't give Amir Khan much respect so far in light welterweight. He defends quite well and his technic looks now better but it seems he can't put some pressure. His punch power ain't impressive. All in all from bantam to light division is dominated nowadays by Donaire if he move to lighterweight. From light welterweight to junior middleweight it's totally Pacman-Mayweather domination. Martinez take the middleweight and supermiddleweight is Ward vs. Bute. From lightheavyweight to cruiser division is lack of excitement - lots of loosers top ranking these divisions.