Originally Posted by Althugz

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Fenster

Cotto abandoned his fight plan against Pac because he got the fuck beat out of him by a superior fighter. Simple as.

Cotto is a great fighter that put up a great performance against Floyd.

You can give him huge credit without making silly excuses for his previous defeats. Lets keep it real.

This makes no sense. I'd say that he "got the fuck beat out of him" BECAUSE he abandoned his fight plan, not the other way around. And since when can't we speculate on how fighter "X" would've done in a fight under other circumstances? Oh yeah, right..... 'cause it's Cotto, the fighter you love to hate.

Cotto fought a level fight for two rounds, got seriously hurt and knocked down in the 3rd, got seriously hurt and knocked down in the 4th, then fought the rest of the fight completely on the defensive trying to survive, before finally being saved from the torture.

Pac beat the shit out of Cotto. Floyd boxed the shit out of Cotto. He did well in both fights.

No excuses needed. Fact.

No excuses given. It's ok to speculate how Cotto would've done against Pacquiao with a trainer like Pedro Diaz in his corner and a gameplan like he had last night for Floyd. And from my point of view, last night was hardly "Floyd boxed the shit out of Cotto." But you're completely biased, and never accept defeat.

Fact.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. How can I be "defeated" if I'm not even competing? I've simply stated how events played out.

Pac beat the shit out of Cotto. Fact.
Floyd beat a UD into Cotto. Fact.

You are 100% entitled to speculate on what might have happened. I'm just stating what factually happened. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you were "factually" stating what happened, you would have said that Pacquiao beat the shit out of Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs and with no trainer" - As it stands, you're being selective in your so-called facts.

Here's a "fact" for you though because I know you like facts : Pacquiao refused to fight Cotto in a rematch unless it was at 145..why is this if he so handily beat the shit out of Miguel in their first fight? (Not to mention that he is the fucking WELTERWEIGHT champion of the world NOT the 145lb champion)

To follow on from that, I would love a Pac vs Cotto rematch. I fancy Cotto to take him to the cleaners at 154. Why not? Doesn't Pacquiao formerly hold at belt at Light Middle? Or was that the 150lb belt he vacantly (and fraudalently won) against Marg?

Unfortunately team Pac will continue to sell snake oil to the Pac fans all over the world. I wish Pac would fire about 85% of his retarded team and develop a brain to think for himself. Bob Arum would be first to go and Roach wouldn't be calling any shots for Pac either.

How is stating a fact being "selective?"

If you want to add to my fact that's entirely up to you.

Cotto agreed to the catchweight. If fighting at 145 was such a major handicap he should have refused. He didn't. It's impossible to prove he lost because of the weight. That is purely opinion.

What we do know for certain though is - Pac beat the shit out of him. Fact.

Cotto also went into the fight sans trainer....sooo Cotto was at a major disadvantage let's be honest about it.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

I wanted to get on the forum after the fight, but too many people watching at home… and then the post-fight cleanup. Went to sleep well into Sunday morning.

Now I’m reading all the posts about the fight and they’ve mostly been pretty spot on. I thought this was hands down one of Cotto’s best showings ever. Right up there with Cotto-Mosley and Cotto-Judah. He didn’t tire down the stretch… he put pressure on Floyd… he bloodied Floyd’s nose and made him work harder than he has in quite a while… he went to the body… and finally, he gave us fans a wonderful spectacle of a fight, just like I knew he would.

I would’ve loved for Cotto to pull off the upset, but Floyd clearly won the fight. Although I too have some misgivings about the margin of victory on the judges scorecards. I think it was closer than they scored it. I was also annoyed by Emamuel Stewart’s comments about Cotto’s performance after the fight. I thought he was too critical, pointing out what Cotto did wrong more than what he did right. I would’ve expected different from Stewart.

Cotto did me proud last night. He fought his heart out… and gave Floyd all he could handle. Props to Floyd for being up to the task. He showed why’s the world’s p4p #1. But no one in recent years has given Floyd the trouble Cotto did. Not Hatton, not Ortiz, not Mosley… not anyone.

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]And to those few posters that will now discredit Floyd rather than give credit to Cotto: C’mon…. stop it. Give credit where credit is due. This was an honest-to-goodness championship fight, between two ATG’s and future HOF’ers.

Cotto is a HOF. But he ain't no damn ATG. I mean seriously ATG? Come on now.

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by TitoFan

I wanted to get on the forum after the fight, but too many people watching at home… and then the post-fight cleanup. Went to sleep well into Sunday morning.

Now I’m reading all the posts about the fight and they’ve mostly been pretty spot on. I thought this was hands down one of Cotto’s best showings ever. Right up there with Cotto-Mosley and Cotto-Judah. He didn’t tire down the stretch… he put pressure on Floyd… he bloodied Floyd’s nose and made him work harder than he has in quite a while… he went to the body… and finally, he gave us fans a wonderful spectacle of a fight, just like I knew he would.

I would’ve loved for Cotto to pull off the upset, but Floyd clearly won the fight. Although I too have some misgivings about the margin of victory on the judges scorecards. I think it was closer than they scored it. I was also annoyed by Emamuel Stewart’s comments about Cotto’s performance after the fight. I thought he was too critical, pointing out what Cotto did wrong more than what he did right. I would’ve expected different from Stewart.

Cotto did me proud last night. He fought his heart out… and gave Floyd all he could handle. Props to Floyd for being up to the task. He showed why’s the world’s p4p #1. But no one in recent years has given Floyd the trouble Cotto did. Not Hatton, not Ortiz, not Mosley… not anyone.

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]And to those few posters that will now discredit Floyd rather than give credit to Cotto: C’mon…. stop it. Give credit where credit is due. This was an honest-to-goodness championship fight, between two ATG’s and future HOF’ers.

Cotto is a HOF. But he ain't no damn ATG. I mean seriously ATG? Come on now.

Ok, ok.... I've caught a little flak for that. HOF and ATG are both subjective, but admittedly, ATG is usually reserved for a select few throughout history. It's hard to be objective with your favorite fighters, so I suppose my "Cotto fan-ism" got the best of me. I'm glad to see you readily concur about his credentials for HOF, though.

honest question though how would one know that somebody has transcended the ATG or HOF? what's the criterion?

[QUOTE=Fenster;1070730][QUOTE=Althugz;1070669][QUOTE=Fenster;1070364]

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Fenster

Cotto abandoned his fight plan against Pac because he got the fuck beat out of him by a superior fighter. Simple as.

Cotto is a great fighter that put up a great performance against Floyd.

You can give him huge credit without making silly excuses for his previous defeats. Lets keep it real.

This makes no sense. I'd say that he "got the fuck beat out of him" BECAUSE he abandoned his fight plan, not the other way around. And since when can't we speculate on how fighter "X" would've done in a fight under other circumstances? Oh yeah, right..... 'cause it's Cotto, the fighter you love to hate.

Cotto fought a level fight for two rounds, got seriously hurt and knocked down in the 3rd, got seriously hurt and knocked down in the 4th, then fought the rest of the fight completely on the defensive trying to survive, before finally being saved from the torture.

Pac beat the shit out of Cotto. Floyd boxed the shit out of Cotto. He did well in both fights.

No excuses needed. Fact.

How is stating a fact being "selective?"

If you want to add to my fact that's entirely up to you.

Cotto agreed to the catchweight. If fighting at 145 was such a major handicap he should have refused. He didn't. It's impossible to prove he lost because of the weight. That is purely opinion.

What we do know for certain though is - Pac beat the shit out of him. Fact.

I already gave you an example of how you were being selective so I'm not going to repeat myself. You stated "a" fact but chose to omit others. Hence you were selective (Hopefully you now understand the word "selective"..you're welcome)

More facts :- Team Pac have been known to say things like "We knew he'd be weaker at xxx lbs"

Or when Mosley wanted to fight Pac before Floyd signed to fight him "We'll only fight you at 142..you're not the same as Oscar"

I like this "Fact" game...do you have any facts for me about why they wanted Miguel again at 145 despite beating the crap out of him last time for the 147 title?


If we have no proof that the weight was the deciding factor, then neither do Team Pac. So it would have made sense, especially now, to rematch Miguel at a comfortable weight and outshine Floyd..also pick up a nice payday and some high ppv numbers.

I have a feeling they know what's up..

1. If Pacman beat Bradley, who's left for him to fight? I'll rather see Pac vs Cotto 2 more then Pac vs JMM 2.

2. Matrinez got a date with Jcc Jr! So he's out!

3. I GOT IT!!!
TwinBill/Co - Main Events
Alvarez vs Kirkland(WBC Title)
Cotto vs Williams or Bundrage(IBF Title)

Originally Posted by Ant Live

1. If Pacman beat Bradley, who's left for him to fight? I'll rather see Pac vs Cotto 2 more then Pac vs JMM 2.

2. Matrinez got a date with Jcc Jr! So he's out!

3. I GOT IT!!!
TwinBill/Co - Main Events
Alvarez vs Kirkland(WBC Title)
Cotto vs Williams or Bundrage(IBF Title)

of course you would, seeing how you can watch Pac vs JMM 2 anytime you please, all you have to do is give it a download or youtube it, I'm pretty sure you mean Pac vs JMM 4

I say Cotto should call out Pacquiao again but only to see if Pac is willing to fight at 154.

Given the changing perception of Cotto as a fighter it would be a popular fight and very easy to sell plus Pacquiao really should believe that the extra weight on Cotto is no problem.

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I say Cotto should call out Pacquiao again but only to see if Pac is willing to fight at 154.

Given the changing perception of Cotto as a fighter it would be a popular fight and very easy to sell plus Pacquiao really should believe that the extra weight on Cotto is no problem.

Of course it should be no problem. Didn't Pacquiao fight Margarito, who's a naturally bigger guy than Cotto? I'm sure Margarito rehydrated back to at least 165 by fight time. Cotto wouldn't carry that much weight into the ring, even if he weighed in at 154.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I say Cotto should call out Pacquiao again but only to see if Pac is willing to fight at 154.

Given the changing perception of Cotto as a fighter it would be a popular fight and very easy to sell plus Pacquiao really should believe that the extra weight on Cotto is no problem.

Of course it should be no problem. Didn't Pacquiao fight Margarito, who's a naturally bigger guy than Cotto? I'm sure Margarito rehydrated back to at least 165 by fight time. Cotto wouldn't carry that much weight into the ring, even if he weighed in at 154.

This fight hurts me regardless of the outcome

Originally Posted by Pavlik

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I say Cotto should call out Pacquiao again but only to see if Pac is willing to fight at 154.

Given the changing perception of Cotto as a fighter it would be a popular fight and very easy to sell plus Pacquiao really should believe that the extra weight on Cotto is no problem.

Of course it should be no problem. Didn't Pacquiao fight Margarito, who's a naturally bigger guy than Cotto? I'm sure Margarito rehydrated back to at least 165 by fight time. Cotto wouldn't carry that much weight into the ring, even if he weighed in at 154.

This fight hurts me regardless of the outcome

I know bro. You're a big Pacquiao fan, I know. I like Pacquiao too. Unfortunately, I'd have to be rooting for Cotto if they were to rematch. I honestly think it'd be a much better and more competitive fight than the first one.

I want it again..I want the playing field levelled. No excuses, no nothing. Cotto deserves it..and you know what? So does Pac because his team have done him a lot of discredit in the latter part of his career.

Cotto vs Pac 2 - get it signed (coz we know that "other" fight isn't going to happen)

I wouldn't mind seeing Pac/ Cotto 2 at 154

[QUOTE=Althugz;1070782][QUOTE=Fenster;1070730][QUOTE=Althugz;1070669]

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Fenster

Cotto abandoned his fight plan against Pac because he got the fuck beat out of him by a superior fighter. Simple as.

Cotto is a great fighter that put up a great performance against Floyd.

You can give him huge credit without making silly excuses for his previous defeats. Lets keep it real.

This makes no sense. I'd say that he "got the fuck beat out of him" BECAUSE he abandoned his fight plan, not the other way around. And since when can't we speculate on how fighter "X" would've done in a fight under other circumstances? Oh yeah, right..... 'cause it's Cotto, the fighter you love to hate.

Cotto fought a level fight for two rounds, got seriously hurt and knocked down in the 3rd, got seriously hurt and knocked down in the 4th, then fought the rest of the fight completely on the defensive trying to survive, before finally being saved from the torture.

Pac beat the shit out of Cotto. Floyd boxed the shit out of Cotto. He did well in both fights.

No excuses needed. Fact.

How is stating a fact being "selective?"

If you want to add to my fact that's entirely up to you.

Cotto agreed to the catchweight. If fighting at 145 was such a major handicap he should have refused. He didn't. It's impossible to prove he lost because of the weight. That is purely opinion.

What we do know for certain though is - Pac beat the shit out of him. Fact.

I already gave you an example of how you were being selective so I'm not going to repeat myself. You stated "a" fact but chose to omit others. Hence you were selective (Hopefully you now understand the word "selective"..you're welcome)

More facts :- Team Pac have been known to say things like "We knew he'd be weaker at xxx lbs"

Or when Mosley wanted to fight Pac before Floyd signed to fight him "We'll only fight you at 142..you're not the same as Oscar"

I like this "Fact" game...do you have any facts for me about why they wanted Miguel again at 145 despite beating the crap out of him last time for the 147 title?


If we have no proof that the weight was the deciding factor, then neither do Team Pac. So it would have made sense, especially now, to rematch Miguel at a comfortable weight and outshine Floyd..also pick up a nice payday and some high ppv numbers.

I have a feeling they know what's up..

Your interpretation of the word "selective" is a bit odd.

A fact is a fact. Whatever the weight was it will never change the fact Cotto was stopped by Pac. And that is the only fact I am reporting.

I honestly have no idea whether Cotto got the shit beat out of him because of the weight. That's impossible to prove. Even if Cotto beat Pac at 154 it still wouldn't prove it. There are a multitude of excuses available to fighters for every contest.

I'm not interested in excuses.