Thread: The "Hatton was never comfortable at 147" myth..

Why are the two fights Ricky had at 147 perceived to mean that he wasn't comfortable there? He fought Luis Collazo and Floyd Mayweather, two fighters who probably would have beaten him at 140 as well. I don't see the Floyd fight going any differently if it was at 140. Floyd was still an offensive beast at 140 who wasn't afraid to let his hands go. I predict it would have ended earlier at that weight.

Collazo would have been trouble for Ricky Hatton in any weight division. Ricky will always struggle with slick, thinking boxers who aren't intimidated or bullied by him. That's just how it is. (I'm sure Philosopher can scour BoxRec to find some slick boxers like Carlos Maussa that Hatton defeated in the past but Ricky will always struggle with upper echelon slick boxers).

So where did this myth come from? Was Ricky expected to beat Collazo and Floyd with ease or something? I'm confused. These are two world class fighters we're judging him on.

I feel that he and his fans think 140 was his best weight because 1) He could bully his opponents a bit more by drying himself into the weight (inducing herpes and all sorts usually on his mouth come weigh-in time!).

2) He never fought fighters like Collazo or Floyd at 140. Kosta Tsuyu was still game when he fought Ricky and of course, that was his best performance..but on the flip side he also got brutally KO'd at 140 by Manny Pacquiao so it could easily just be said he struggled with his higher calibur opponents.

I'm trying to come at this as neutral as possible and I have the utmost respect Ricky for getting rid of Warren at the right time to pursue the toughest challenges in America (Something JC never did until his very last, meaningless fight). Never ANY shame in losing to the absolute best like he did. I just wonder whether Ricky and fans look at him with rose-tinted glasses.

What are your thoughts? Will you change your mind if Ricky puts on a performance in his comeback at 147 in November?

Ricky used to bully his opponents into submision and if he cant do that he is in for a tough night at world level but when he decides to box he is good at it, Paulie and Juan are testament to that I hope on his comback he chooses this style as at world level, at his age the young guns will have to much physicaly for him and he will get sparked again, he needs to use his boxing brain and conciderable experiance in the ring if his comeback is to be succesfull.
I am a fan Rickys and have watched over 30 fights live but am a realist and think he could turn Paulie over as for Maidana etc lets see how Rickys chin holds out, if he can still take a good shot he has a chance but I have a feeling that he cant time will tell its all ifs, buts and maybes at the moment.

Originally Posted by Dean Duke

Ricky used to bully his opponents into submision and if he cant do that he is in for a tough night at world level but when he decides to box he is good at it, Paulie and Juan are testament to that I hope on his comback he chooses this style as at world level, at his age the young guns will have to much physicaly for him and he will get sparked again, he needs to use his boxing brain and conciderable experiance in the ring if his comeback is to be succesfull.
I am a fan Rickys and have watched over 30 fights live but am a realist and think he could turn Paulie over as for Maidana etc lets see how Rickys chin holds out, if he can still take a good shot he has a chance but I have a feeling that he cant time will tell its all ifs, buts and maybes at the moment.

I agree he was an underated boxer. He had great footwork. I know he had good boxing skills before but I think that first fight under Floyd Sr's guidance was the best I've ever seen Ricky look. He was so composed, hit Paulie with counters and applied intelligent pressure..looked like a different Ricky in there. Was very pleasing to the eye.

I think a little bit like Amir Khan, he could get a bit macho and ahead of himself so you didn't always see those skills come in. He wanted to be bullish and crowd please. It definitely made him a lot of money but also cost him massively against Pacquiao

1. Hatton beat Collazo at 147 (If you think he lost? Tough. It was a close fight he won).

2. Hatton couldn't beat Floyd at any weight or at any time in history.

3. If you have a hundred fights at 140 and only two at 147 it's pretty obvious 140 was your prime weight.

4. @Althguz - have you ever made a post without mentioning Calzaghe? Weird boy, very weird

Hatton was uncomfortable at 147lb it was not his best weight. I think Hatton could have beaten Floyd at 140lb if it was in England with an English ref.

Originally Posted by Master

Hatton was uncomfortable at 147lb it was not his best weight. I think Hatton could have beaten Floyd at 140lb if it was in England with an English ref.

... and if the English ref DQ'd Floyd after he knocked Hatton out.

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Master

Hatton was uncomfortable at 147lb it was not his best weight. I think Hatton could have beaten Floyd at 140lb if it was in England with an English ref.

... and if the English ref DQ'd Floyd after he knocked Hatton out.

The ref would never have penalized Hatton and Ricky would not have lost his head mid way into the fight.

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Master

Hatton was uncomfortable at 147lb it was not his best weight. I think Hatton could have beaten Floyd at 140lb if it was in England with an English ref.

... and if the English ref DQ'd Floyd after he knocked Hatton out.

The ref would never have penalized Hatton and Ricky would not have lost his head mid way into the fight.

Yeah.. Hatton would have lost his head early because Floyd would have realised he could get shafted.

Originally Posted by Fenster

1. Hatton beat Collazo at 147 (If you think he lost? Tough. It was a close fight he won).

2. Hatton couldn't beat Floyd at any weight or at any time in history.

3. If you have a hundred fights at 140 and only two at 147 it's pretty obvious 140 was your prime weight.

4. @Althguz - have you ever made a post without mentioning Calzaghe? Weird boy, very weird

1) Actually I thought he won by virtue of the KD - contrary to popular opinion here. He did struggle though and would have at 140 too.

2) True

3) Definitely prime at 140 but I think too much is made of his one loss and one struggle at 147.

4) True, I start "JC Haters" rehab tomorrow. Maybe I secretly am a fan unable to express my true feelings for him. I hope not..

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Master

Hatton was uncomfortable at 147lb it was not his best weight. I think Hatton could have beaten Floyd at 140lb if it was in England with an English ref.

... and if the English ref DQ'd Floyd after he knocked Hatton out.

The ref would never have penalized Hatton and Ricky would not have lost his head mid way into the fight.

There's no place, time or dimension that Hatton could have won, Master.

I know it's cliche to say this now but it's so appropriate - "Ricky's dad could have been ref..." you know the rest.

(Actually, you never know..based on recent events Ricky's dad could have turned villain mid way and clotheslined Ricky out of his boots. Maybe even a steel chair shot..) Either way Floyd wins

Why do i get dragged into the opening post? I won't dignify u with my thoughts because u can't have a debate without telling someone u 'came' on one of there parents!

Originally Posted by Althugz

Why are the two fights Ricky had at 147 perceived to mean that he wasn't comfortable there? He fought Luis Collazo and Floyd Mayweather, two fighters who probably would have beaten him at 140 as well. I don't see the Floyd fight going any differently if it was at 140. Floyd was still an offensive beast at 140 who wasn't afraid to let his hands go. I predict it would have ended earlier at that weight.

I'm a die hard Hatton fan and always will be but I never used the weight as an excuse as to why he lost to Floyd and why he struggled against Luis. However there is no doubt in my mind that Cortez pulled a hack job in that fight. Quite possibly the worst job I have ever seen. Thats not an excuse but a fact and if the rolls were reversed I'd being saying the same thing. Would it have changed the outcome? Of course it would have and I'm not saying that Ricky would have won. Collazo as you rightly point out was/is just a bad style for Ricky and he's a southpaw to boot.

Collazo would have been trouble for Ricky Hatton in any weight division. Ricky will always struggle with slick, thinking boxers who aren't intimidated or bullied by him. That's just how it is. (I'm sure Philosopher can scour BoxRec to find some slick boxers like Carlos Maussa that Hatton defeated in the past but Ricky will always struggle with upper echelon slick boxers).

So where did this myth come from? Was Ricky expected to beat Collazo and Floyd with ease or something? I'm confused. These are two world class fighters we're judging him on.

Most people even non Hatton fans believed Hatton would beat Collazo convincingly. I don't really know any Hatton fans that suggested Ricky would beat Floyd with ease on any forum.

I feel that he and his fans think 140 was his best weight because 1) He could bully his opponents a bit more by drying himself into the weight (inducing herpes and all sorts usually on his mouth come weigh-in time!).

Again, I don't think weight is a valid excuse for his failings. One could easily argue that given his ballooning in-between fights that 147 is actually safer.

2) He never fought fighters like Collazo or Floyd at 140. Kosta Tsuyu was still game when he fought Ricky and of course, that was his best performance..but on the flip side he also got brutally KO'd at 140 by Manny Pacquiao so it could easily just be said he struggled with his higher calibur opponents.

No I cant agree with that entirely. That Manny fight was a train wreck the moment he hired Sr and fired Graham. Ricky became star struck and left the most important tool in the box back in his dressing room namely his head. In a nutshell he fought stupid and paid the ultimate price.

I'm trying to come at this as neutral as possible and I have the utmost respect Ricky for getting rid of Warren at the right time to pursue the toughest challenges in America (Something JC never did until his very last, meaningless fight). Never ANY shame in losing to the absolute best like he did. I just wonder whether Ricky and fans look at him with rose-tinted glasses.

As stated earlier the success imo effected Ricky when his appeal crossed the pond and it had a trickle down effect ending with his performance. Not sure who Calzaghe could have fought that he didn't at 168. Simply put there was really no threat to Joe when he peaked at that weight on these shores. Lacy was the best of the lot and was supposed to take Joe out but we all know what happened. Shortly after of course Lacy was given bum status. No idea how Ricky views himself. Would like to think that I can be fair and objective where he is concerned.

What are your thoughts? Will you change your mind if Ricky puts on a performance in his comeback at 147 in November?

I wanted him to stay retired and I think he will definitely show some ring rust. I'm not expecting to much but hoping for the best.

Those are my thoughts.

Hatton had great success until he became involved in this p4p crap and was left crumpled in a corner in one fight and stretched out like a board in another. Kicking ass at 140 didn't appeal to him anymore so he thought he'd broaden his horizons and was beaten by the best.
I'm not pissed that Hatten needed to test himself against Floyd or Manny, and I'm not pissed at Floyd and Manny for doing what they do. I do think Hatton would have been a hell of a lot better off if he had stayed at 140. I'm just giving my opinion that he should stay at 140.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Originally Posted by Althugz

Why are the two fights Ricky had at 147 perceived to mean that he wasn't comfortable there? He fought Luis Collazo and Floyd Mayweather, two fighters who probably would have beaten him at 140 as well. I don't see the Floyd fight going any differently if it was at 140. Floyd was still an offensive beast at 140 who wasn't afraid to let his hands go. I predict it would have ended earlier at that weight.

I'm a die hard Hatton fan and always will be but I never used the weight as an excuse as to why he lost to Floyd and why he struggled against Luis. However there is no doubt in my mind that Cortez pulled a hack job in that fight. Quite possibly the worst job I have ever seen. Thats not an excuse but a fact and if the rolls were reversed I'd being saying the same thing. Would it have changed the outcome? Of course it would have and I'm not saying that Ricky would have won. Collazo as you rightly point out was/is just a bad style for Ricky and he's a southpaw to boot.

Collazo would have been trouble for Ricky Hatton in any weight division. Ricky will always struggle with slick, thinking boxers who aren't intimidated or bullied by him. That's just how it is. (I'm sure Philosopher can scour BoxRec to find some slick boxers like Carlos Maussa that Hatton defeated in the past but Ricky will always struggle with upper echelon slick boxers).

So where did this myth come from? Was Ricky expected to beat Collazo and Floyd with ease or something? I'm confused. These are two world class fighters we're judging him on.

Most people even non Hatton fans believed Hatton would beat Collazo convincingly. I don't really know any Hatton fans that suggested Ricky would beat Floyd with ease on any forum.

I feel that he and his fans think 140 was his best weight because 1) He could bully his opponents a bit more by drying himself into the weight (inducing herpes and all sorts usually on his mouth come weigh-in time!).

Again, I don't think weight is a valid excuse for his failings. One could easily argue that given his ballooning in-between fights that 147 is actually safer.

2) He never fought fighters like Collazo or Floyd at 140. Kosta Tsuyu was still game when he fought Ricky and of course, that was his best performance..but on the flip side he also got brutally KO'd at 140 by Manny Pacquiao so it could easily just be said he struggled with his higher calibur opponents.

No I cant agree with that entirely. That Manny fight was a train wreck the moment he hired Sr and fired Graham. Ricky became star struck and left the most important tool in the box back in his dressing room namely his head. In a nutshell he fought stupid and paid the ultimate price.

I'm trying to come at this as neutral as possible and I have the utmost respect Ricky for getting rid of Warren at the right time to pursue the toughest challenges in America (Something JC never did until his very last, meaningless fight). Never ANY shame in losing to the absolute best like he did. I just wonder whether Ricky and fans look at him with rose-tinted glasses.

As stated earlier the success imo effected Ricky when his appeal crossed the pond and it had a trickle down effect ending with his performance. Not sure who Calzaghe could have fought that he didn't at 168. Simply put there was really no threat to Joe when he peaked at that weight on these shores. Lacy was the best of the lot and was supposed to take Joe out but we all know what happened. Shortly after of course Lacy was given bum status. No idea how Ricky views himself. Would like to think that I can be fair and objective where he is concerned.

What are your thoughts? Will you change your mind if Ricky puts on a performance in his comeback at 147 in November?

I wanted him to stay retired and I think he will definitely show some ring rust. I'm not expecting to much but hoping for the best.

Those are my thoughts.

Thanks!

Only part I'm not convinced about is that the hiring of Floyd Sr was a bad thing..because his first fight under Floyd Sr he fought Malignagi and looked the best I've ever seen him. Head movement, foot movements, composure, defence, countering..it all came together.

I know it's documented that his camp for Pacquiao was a troubled one but I highly doubt Floyd Sr would ever have sent Ricky out against Manny with the strategy that he did and Ricky should take responsibility for that. It was a really bad judgement call by Hatton in that fight.

Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Why do i get dragged into the opening post? I won't dignify u with my thoughts because u can't have a debate without telling someone u 'came' on one of there parents!

Oh don't cry because I countered your irrelevant insult about me wearing "woodstain" with an equally irrelevant jibe back at you.