Thread: The Global Warming crowd is at war....with the poor

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

The problem with the Keystone pipeline is that it is meant to move oil to ports so that it can be sold abroad; it by passes US refineries.
I quit taking 'global warming' seriously when I read that buying 'carbon credits' was forecast to become a $3trillion industry.

The oil sands move from Alberta to refineries in Illinois & Oklahoma and to the Gulf Coast where it can be sold on the World Market. The United States already buys oil from Canada, we'd more than likely get a better deal for having the pipeline to the ports & refineries, but at the end of the day the oil is Canada's and they can sell it on the World Market if they so choose.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

The problem with the Keystone pipeline is that it is meant to move oil to ports so that it can be sold abroad; it by passes US refineries.
I quit taking 'global warming' seriously when I read that buying 'carbon credits' was forecast to become a $3trillion industry.

The oil sands move from Alberta to refineries in Illinois & Oklahoma and to the Gulf Coast where it can be sold on the World Market. The United States already buys oil from Canada, we'd more than likely get a better deal for having the pipeline to the ports & refineries, but at the end of the day the oil is Canada's and they can sell it on the World Market if they so choose.

Global warming is a fact guys whether suits play politics with it or not and no where is it more evident then where I live and further north. Having said that I do not see the demand of fossil fuels dying off anytime soon when India and China are bursting at the seams. Got mixed feelings about the pipe line and selling our oil to the open market and helping to fuel those that hate North America. I find myself becoming more and more of an isolationist when thinking about the generations that follow us. Another part of me wishes we would just run out.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

The problem with the Keystone pipeline is that it is meant to move oil to ports so that it can be sold abroad; it by passes US refineries.
I quit taking 'global warming' seriously when I read that buying 'carbon credits' was forecast to become a $3trillion industry.

The oil sands move from Alberta to refineries in Illinois & Oklahoma and to the Gulf Coast where it can be sold on the World Market. The United States already buys oil from Canada, we'd more than likely get a better deal for having the pipeline to the ports & refineries, but at the end of the day the oil is Canada's and they can sell it on the World Market if they so choose.

Global warming is a fact guys whether suits play politics with it or not and no where is it more evident then where I live and further north. Having said that I do not see the demand of fossil fuels dying off anytime soon when India and China are bursting at the seams. Got mixed feelings about the pipe line and selling our oil to the open market and helping to fuel those that hate North America. I find myself becoming more and more of an isolationist when thinking about the generations that follow us. Another part of me wishes we would just run out.

Nice try trying to talk some sense into the pro-oil crowd, @IamInuit . But to paraphrase Lyle from another thread, it's like pissing into the wind. You can bury your head in the sand all you want, but global warming is a fact. Would it still be occuring without human intervention? Yes. Are we making it worse to some degree by being irresponsible with the environment? Hell yes. That's all that need be said. The rest is just playing politics, as you said.

#1 The Earth's climate has never been static

#2 Climategate should have ended this farce once and for all

#3 If the sun rises tomorrow people will shout "GLOBAL WARMING!"....and they'll do the same if it doesn't

#4 The North might be losing ice, but....
Antarctic Sea Ice Sets Another Record - Forbes Anarctica seems to be adding more

#5 The Milankovich Cycles & Orbital Forcing have an impact as does the Sun

#6 Humans produce 4% of the CO2 in the atmosphere....4%. So 4% has doomed us all to death? Would 3.9% be better? Would 3% be better? Would it be enough to stop Anthropogenic Global Warming? Hell in the 1970's people thought we were headed for a new ice age, so that goes to show you what these dopey scientist know.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

#4 The North might be losing ice, but....
Antarctic Sea Ice Sets Another Record - Forbes Anarctica seems to be adding more

Ahh yes... an article from James Taylor, contributor to Forbes and author of numerous articles attacking those who believe in global warming. At least now I know where your use of the word "alarmists" comes from.

I'll just paraphrase Einstein and agree that although the world around us continues to change, the thinking of mankind does not.

There is no such thing as the global warming crowd because despite wanting to portray scientists as being dopey, the huge majority of the scientific community are not dopey and agree that global warming is a fact, and agree that mankinds reliance on fossil fuels, undoubtedly exacerbates the problem. The fact that gas and oil reserves are running out just gives huge energy companies more leverage to screw the poor with ridiculous price hikes. Poor people in rural areas are again screwed by huge price rises for fuel which they need for transport, farm machinery and generators. Becoming self sufficient and using geothermal heating, better insulation and more renewable sources of energy is a way of removing oneself from the tyranny of multinational power companies. Green energy is the future and for many it is already just a philosophy and way of life and has been for years.

They cant tax the air we breathe, so they tax our farts n emissions instead.

The idea that we are on the cusp of running out of oil, natural gas or coal is not really true. Growing markets such as China and India are increasing the demand for the resources and the western world is experiencing a bottle-necking when it comes to refining but there is a whole lot of fossil fuels yet to be tapped.

Why We'll Never Run Out of Oil - Reason.com

Common sense says and nature points to everything having a reason.

I wonder if science has thrown enough millions at the question; to prove that oil isnt down there for some reason other than for us? So that now some pratt in a suit and someone who thinks they know best from a university who has been taught what to think, can tell us all it isnt there for a natural lubricant or barrier maybe both.

And here we are on the surface of a rock that moves around on a bed of molten lava.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

The problem with the Keystone pipeline is that it is meant to move oil to ports so that it can be sold abroad; it by passes US refineries.
I quit taking 'global warming' seriously when I read that buying 'carbon credits' was forecast to become a $3trillion industry.

The oil sands move from Alberta to refineries in Illinois & Oklahoma and to the Gulf Coast where it can be sold on the World Market. The United States already buys oil from Canada, we'd more than likely get a better deal for having the pipeline to the ports & refineries, but at the end of the day the oil is Canada's and they can sell it on the World Market if they so choose.

Global warming is a fact guys whether suits play politics with it or not and no where is it more evident then where I live and further north. Having said that I do not see the demand of fossil fuels dying off anytime soon when India and China are bursting at the seams. Got mixed feelings about the pipe line and selling our oil to the open market and helping to fuel those that hate North America. I find myself becoming more and more of an isolationist when thinking about the generations that follow us. Another part of me wishes we would just run out.

Nice try trying to talk some sense into the pro-oil crowd, @IamInuit . But to paraphrase Lyle from another thread, it's like pissing into the wind. You can bury your head in the sand all you want, but global warming is a fact. Would it still be occuring without human intervention? Yes. Are we making it worse to some degree by being irresponsible with the environment? Hell yes. That's all that need be said. The rest is just playing politics, as you said.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone credible is arguing against global warming. The earth has been warming since the last ice age ended. The question is how much do humans affect the warming and specifically the use of fossil fuels. Doom and gloom science is not something that is new. Overpopulation, worldwide starvation and the ozone layer were all supposed to end the Earth decades ago. Amazingly we keep on going around the sun day after day.

At this moment in time people are de baiting, do they want Wind Turbines in parts of Wales, why not
it's not as if they make you glow in the dark.

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

The idea that we are on the cusp of running out of oil, natural gas or coal is not really true. Growing markets such as China and India are increasing the demand for the resources and the western world is experiencing a bottle-necking when it comes to refining but there is a whole lot of fossil fuels yet to be tapped.

Why We'll Never Run Out of Oil - Reason.com

For every pro-drilling article you can post saying we'll never run out of oil, I can probably post one that says we're depleting the world's supplies. Depends on who's writing, and what their personal interests are.

Saying we'll "never" run out of oil, on the weight of the words alone, seems a bit ludicrous. Oil is a finite resource, which is consumed at a far higher rate than it will ever be replenished. Add to that the still to be established demand from developing giants such as China, as you yourself mentioned, and you have a huge increase in daily demand.

Economists can play games all day long with talks of bottlenecks and "turning down the faucets" in order to raise prices, all tied to the usual greedy, shitty politics we humans like to play with everything. But fact of the matter is..... demand is demand. We're still consuming at an alarming rate. And we're constantly under pressure to find new oil fields, and come up with viable technology to squeeze oil from previously ignored sources. In the end, we're still pumping gas.... whether at $4 a gallon, or $15 a gallon.

It's very convenient for those who don't give a shit about the environment or finite oil resources to lump everyone else into "cute-named" groups, such as "alarmists" and "doomsdayers". It's also lazy and irresponsible.

Tito,

I get the feeling you didn't read the article b/c the title is a bit tongue in cheek furthermore Reason internally source's all their documents. In short Libertarians deal with facts and logic unlike the other two major parties. They do a pretty good job of showing how we have allegedly been about to run out of oil multiple times only to find new deposits and new technologies to get resources previously believed out of reach. The bottlenecking is not some political game it is a real result of refineries being closed in the last 12 months for a variety of reasons which is slowing the supply side and causing the current spike in prices. I'm not sure if your last bit is pointed at me or not but I probably spend more time in the woods than most on this board and have a real vested interest in the environment and conservation. I don't worry about reports on dwindling oil reserves b/c it is an attempt to manufacture a false crisis. So yeah there is a certain level of doomsday proponents and alarmists out there beating the drum not altruistically but to further their own interests.