Thread: No standing 8 counts in ANY championship fights. Froch - Groves related.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

WHY SHOULD GROVES HAVE GOT A STANDING 8 COUNT AND WHY SHOULD HE HAVE TAKEN A KNEE?

as far as i can see the fight hadnt got to that point

Whether he was hurt or not, he was showing signs of distress, falling back and covering up and had taken flush shots. Regardless, it was a quick stoppage but how does anyone define quick?

The refs job is to protect both fighters and it is left up to his discretion to decide when he thinks any fighter has to be protected. Yes I agree it was quick. If all fights were stopped as quick, Gatti Ward and Corralles Castillio would not have been the fghts they were.

Groves needs to learn now that he has to bluff that hes in total control. Rather than put gloves up in his face and bounce off the ropes like Bute did, grab Froch, turn him, anything to keep the ref at bay or even to get the ref to intervene and buy time.

It was stopped quick but how quick? It may have only been another shot or two but really its Groves fault for giving any reason for the ref to do what Froch and Hearn wanted him to.

yes he was going through an uncomfortable moment

not one where he was ready to go down so he didnt need a standing 8 count nor to take a knee

and he definately didnt need to be stopped

groves didnt give a reason he had his hands up and was throwing back

We will never know now but there is the possibility that when the ref grabbed George he was going to administer an 8 count but when he felt Georges weight sag in to him he decided to stop it. I still dont agree with it but because things like a fighters wellfare and scoring are a matter of opinion judges and refs are left to give their opinion and we can moan but if you look hurt a ref can stop you.

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

WHY SHOULD GROVES HAVE GOT A STANDING 8 COUNT AND WHY SHOULD HE HAVE TAKEN A KNEE?

as far as i can see the fight hadnt got to that point

Whether he was hurt or not, he was showing signs of distress, falling back and covering up and had taken flush shots. Regardless, it was a quick stoppage but how does anyone define quick?

The refs job is to protect both fighters and it is left up to his discretion to decide when he thinks any fighter has to be protected. Yes I agree it was quick. If all fights were stopped as quick, Gatti Ward and Corralles Castillio would not have been the fghts they were.

Groves needs to learn now that he has to bluff that hes in total control. Rather than put gloves up in his face and bounce off the ropes like Bute did, grab Froch, turn him, anything to keep the ref at bay or even to get the ref to intervene and buy time.

It was stopped quick but how quick? It may have only been another shot or two but really its Groves fault for giving any reason for the ref to do what Froch and Hearn wanted him to.

yes he was going through an uncomfortable moment

not one where he was ready to go down so he didnt need a standing 8 count nor to take a knee

and he definately didnt need to be stopped

groves didnt give a reason he had his hands up and was throwing back

We will never know now but there is the possibility that when the ref grabbed George he was going to administer an 8 count but when he felt Georges weight sag in to him he decided to stop it. I still dont agree with it but because things like a fighters wellfare and scoring are a matter of opinion judges and refs are left to give their opinion and we can moan but if you look hurt a ref can stop you.

yes it was a bad stoppage but it was made in a split second but a human who made a mistake, fair enough

still, why should groves have taken a knee or got an 8 count any less or any more than being stopped

he was still well in a fight that could have gone either way

i wouldnt take a knee in a fight i was winning when i wasnt in distress, nor would i expect an 8 count, nor would i expect to be stopped

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

WHY SHOULD GROVES HAVE GOT A STANDING 8 COUNT AND WHY SHOULD HE HAVE TAKEN A KNEE?

as far as i can see the fight hadnt got to that point

Whether he was hurt or not, he was showing signs of distress, falling back and covering up and had taken flush shots. Regardless, it was a quick stoppage but how does anyone define quick?

The refs job is to protect both fighters and it is left up to his discretion to decide when he thinks any fighter has to be protected. Yes I agree it was quick. If all fights were stopped as quick, Gatti Ward and Corralles Castillio would not have been the fghts they were.

Groves needs to learn now that he has to bluff that hes in total control. Rather than put gloves up in his face and bounce off the ropes like Bute did, grab Froch, turn him, anything to keep the ref at bay or even to get the ref to intervene and buy time.

It was stopped quick but how quick? It may have only been another shot or two but really its Groves fault for giving any reason for the ref to do what Froch and Hearn wanted him to.

yes he was going through an uncomfortable moment

not one where he was ready to go down so he didnt need a standing 8 count nor to take a knee

and he definately didnt need to be stopped

groves didnt give a reason he had his hands up and was throwing back

We will never know now but there is the possibility that when the ref grabbed George he was going to administer an 8 count but when he felt Georges weight sag in to him he decided to stop it. I still dont agree with it but because things like a fighters wellfare and scoring are a matter of opinion judges and refs are left to give their opinion and we can moan but if you look hurt a ref can stop you.

yes it was a bad stoppage but it was made in a split second but a human who made a mistake, fair enough

still, why should groves have taken a knee or got an 8 count any less or any more than being stopped

he was still well in a fight that could have gone either way

i wouldnt take a knee in a fight i was winning when i wasnt in distress, nor would i expect an 8 count, nor would i expect to be stopped

Then you wouldnt have been taught boxing very well by your coach or manager. They will tell you, defend yourself at all times, dont give the ref the opportunity to step in, especially against a big name.

Groves looked as though he stumbled just as Foster was stepping in.

Foster had watch a sure footed Groves skip out of danger most of the night and all of a sudden he looked vulnerable and as he has admitted himself he bacame a victim of both fighters reps.

Until judging a reffing has a proper points system in the pros rather than open to differing opinions fighters will need to learn to impose the impression that they are in control and dominating.

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

WHY SHOULD GROVES HAVE GOT A STANDING 8 COUNT AND WHY SHOULD HE HAVE TAKEN A KNEE?

as far as i can see the fight hadnt got to that point

Whether he was hurt or not, he was showing signs of distress, falling back and covering up and had taken flush shots. Regardless, it was a quick stoppage but how does anyone define quick?

The refs job is to protect both fighters and it is left up to his discretion to decide when he thinks any fighter has to be protected. Yes I agree it was quick. If all fights were stopped as quick, Gatti Ward and Corralles Castillio would not have been the fghts they were.

Groves needs to learn now that he has to bluff that hes in total control. Rather than put gloves up in his face and bounce off the ropes like Bute did, grab Froch, turn him, anything to keep the ref at bay or even to get the ref to intervene and buy time.

It was stopped quick but how quick? It may have only been another shot or two but really its Groves fault for giving any reason for the ref to do what Froch and Hearn wanted him to.

yes he was going through an uncomfortable moment

not one where he was ready to go down so he didnt need a standing 8 count nor to take a knee

and he definately didnt need to be stopped

groves didnt give a reason he had his hands up and was throwing back

We will never know now but there is the possibility that when the ref grabbed George he was going to administer an 8 count but when he felt Georges weight sag in to him he decided to stop it. I still dont agree with it but because things like a fighters wellfare and scoring are a matter of opinion judges and refs are left to give their opinion and we can moan but if you look hurt a ref can stop you.

yes it was a bad stoppage but it was made in a split second but a human who made a mistake, fair enough

still, why should groves have taken a knee or got an 8 count any less or any more than being stopped

he was still well in a fight that could have gone either way

i wouldnt take a knee in a fight i was winning when i wasnt in distress, nor would i expect an 8 count, nor would i expect to be stopped

Then you wouldnt have been taught boxing very well by your coach or manager. They will tell you, defend yourself at all times, dont give the ref the opportunity to step in, especially against a big name.

Groves looked as though he stumbled just as Foster was stepping in.

Foster had watch a sure footed Groves skip out of danger most of the night and all of a sudden he looked vulnerable and as he has admitted himself he bacame a victim of both fighters reps.

Until judging a reffing has a proper points system in the pros rather than open to differing opinions fighters will need to learn to impose the impression that they are in control and dominating.

i wouldnt want my coach/manager/best mate to tell me to take a knee when im not hurt, would you?

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by erics44

WHY SHOULD GROVES HAVE GOT A STANDING 8 COUNT AND WHY SHOULD HE HAVE TAKEN A KNEE?

as far as i can see the fight hadnt got to that point

Whether he was hurt or not, he was showing signs of distress, falling back and covering up and had taken flush shots. Regardless, it was a quick stoppage but how does anyone define quick?

The refs job is to protect both fighters and it is left up to his discretion to decide when he thinks any fighter has to be protected. Yes I agree it was quick. If all fights were stopped as quick, Gatti Ward and Corralles Castillio would not have been the fghts they were.

Groves needs to learn now that he has to bluff that hes in total control. Rather than put gloves up in his face and bounce off the ropes like Bute did, grab Froch, turn him, anything to keep the ref at bay or even to get the ref to intervene and buy time.

It was stopped quick but how quick? It may have only been another shot or two but really its Groves fault for giving any reason for the ref to do what Froch and Hearn wanted him to.

yes he was going through an uncomfortable moment

not one where he was ready to go down so he didnt need a standing 8 count nor to take a knee

and he definately didnt need to be stopped

groves didnt give a reason he had his hands up and was throwing back

We will never know now but there is the possibility that when the ref grabbed George he was going to administer an 8 count but when he felt Georges weight sag in to him he decided to stop it. I still dont agree with it but because things like a fighters wellfare and scoring are a matter of opinion judges and refs are left to give their opinion and we can moan but if you look hurt a ref can stop you.

yes it was a bad stoppage but it was made in a split second but a human who made a mistake, fair enough

still, why should groves have taken a knee or got an 8 count any less or any more than being stopped

he was still well in a fight that could have gone either way

i wouldnt take a knee in a fight i was winning when i wasnt in distress, nor would i expect an 8 count, nor would i expect to be stopped

Then you wouldnt have been taught boxing very well by your coach or manager. They will tell you, defend yourself at all times, dont give the ref the opportunity to step in, especially against a big name.

Groves looked as though he stumbled just as Foster was stepping in.

Foster had watch a sure footed Groves skip out of danger most of the night and all of a sudden he looked vulnerable and as he has admitted himself he bacame a victim of both fighters reps.

Until judging a reffing has a proper points system in the pros rather than open to differing opinions fighters will need to learn to impose the impression that they are in control and dominating.

i wouldnt want my coach/manager/best mate to tell me to take a knee when im not hurt, would you?

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

He didnt have to. He shouldn't have allowed Carl to tee off and just cover up. He should have held, tied up. He did it a few times during the fight too. When Carl would press, he wouldn't move out the way just stand in front and put his gloves up while looking at the floor. He has talent for sure but the way he deals with pressure needs to develop. Its cost him a fight already.

Originally Posted by ross

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

He didnt have to. He shouldn't have allowed Carl to tee off and just cover up. He should have held, tied up. He did it a few times during the fight too. When Carl would press, he wouldn't move out the way just stand in front and put his gloves up while looking at the floor. He has talent for sure but the way he deals with pressure needs to develop. Its cost him a fight already.

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

George Groves was not hurt enough to take a knee or do anything he wouldnt have done throughout the rest of the fight

when foster grabbed him he had just ducked under a punch with his hands up

the first time your oppononent landed a puch would you change your tactics?

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

He didnt have to. He shouldn't have allowed Carl to tee off and just cover up. He should have held, tied up. He did it a few times during the fight too. When Carl would press, he wouldn't move out the way just stand in front and put his gloves up while looking at the floor. He has talent for sure but the way he deals with pressure needs to develop. Its cost him a fight already.

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

George Groves was not hurt enough to take a knee or do anything he wouldnt have done throughout the rest of the fight

when foster grabbed him he had just ducked under a punch with his hands up

the first time your oppononent landed a puch would you change your tactics?

He was hurt and an experienced ref whos witnessed first hand probably hundreds of boxers will know the signs better than ourselves.

How hurt he was is another matter but he was hurt. Groves didnt go as far as admit he was hurt, he wouldnt, no one would. He did admit he got caught by some good shots. Its then up to him to bluff his way through it and make the ref believe hes fine. As it was there is an argument the ref did do his job. He saw Groves take a few clean shots and trying to punch back rather than show the capacity and wherewithal to move his head or get out the way and his head snap back he then saw groves stumble forward. Like I said, I think he could have got through it, if Carl stopped catching him but he wasnt able to stop him at that point and fell in to the ref. It was possibly on its way as Groves was slowing.

I've kind of had enough of this debate. Groves was hurt and Froch post-fight has not helped by over egging everything in post-fight interviews. Both of them are getting on my tits now to be honest. The bottom line (as smashup has said previously said on this forum) is that it was Grove's inexperience that has cost him this fight and it started in round one when he landed that crackerjack right and he should have jumped on Froch then. BUT he couldn't put him away could he? And Carl fought his way back in into the fight as good champs do. If Groves had got through round 9 by taking a knee or going down 'cos he was hurt... then we had a fight with about a point in it going into the championship rounds. Froch was favourite from then on in my book. Have a re-match boys and settle it. It was a belter so I could watch it again.... I back Groves to win the rematch.

Carl Froch: George Groves has blown his chance | Boxing News | ESPN.co.uk

I actually don't know if Froch will rematch Groves or not, he really wants to fight ward again.

World Boxing News - Hearn and HBO set to discuss Froch fights with Ward, Chavez and Golovkin

Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

World Boxing News - Hearn and HBO set to discuss Froch fights with Ward, Chavez and Golovkin

whats fair is a rematch but a lot of fighters have won controvertial fights before not given a rematch

ill be honest, i would really like to see a rematch but i think straight away is the wrong move for both and i think id rather see froch fight chavez

and if froch retired after chavez and the rematch never happened it wouldnt be a terrible thing

froch has had such a fantastic career i wouldnt like to see it end with a KO loss to groves

Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Carl Froch: George Groves has blown his chance | Boxing News | ESPN.co.uk

I actually don't know if Froch will rematch Groves or not, he really wants to fight ward again.

What an arrogant hypocritical dick.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

He didnt have to. He shouldn't have allowed Carl to tee off and just cover up. He should have held, tied up. He did it a few times during the fight too. When Carl would press, he wouldn't move out the way just stand in front and put his gloves up while looking at the floor. He has talent for sure but the way he deals with pressure needs to develop. Its cost him a fight already.

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

George Groves was not hurt enough to take a knee or do anything he wouldnt have done throughout the rest of the fight

when foster grabbed him he had just ducked under a punch with his hands up

the first time your oppononent landed a puch would you change your tactics?

He spent the majority of the 9th round being hurt/holding on/tying up. People are forgetting this.

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

He didnt have to. He shouldn't have allowed Carl to tee off and just cover up. He should have held, tied up. He did it a few times during the fight too. When Carl would press, he wouldn't move out the way just stand in front and put his gloves up while looking at the floor. He has talent for sure but the way he deals with pressure needs to develop. Its cost him a fight already.

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

George Groves was not hurt enough to take a knee or do anything he wouldnt have done throughout the rest of the fight

when foster grabbed him he had just ducked under a punch with his hands up

the first time your oppononent landed a puch would you change your tactics?

He spent the majority of the 9th round being hurt/holding on/tying up. People are forgetting this.

Not really, people like Froch are forgetting the previous 8 rounds or quite how empty it sounds when you have to declare yourself to be an ironman warrior, after getting your arse kicked by somebody who you were previously insisting should kiss your boots for the right to fight you.

Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by ross

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

He didnt have to. He shouldn't have allowed Carl to tee off and just cover up. He should have held, tied up. He did it a few times during the fight too. When Carl would press, he wouldn't move out the way just stand in front and put his gloves up while looking at the floor. He has talent for sure but the way he deals with pressure needs to develop. Its cost him a fight already.

Your not understanding or choosing not to understand.

George Groves was not hurt enough to take a knee or do anything he wouldnt have done throughout the rest of the fight

when foster grabbed him he had just ducked under a punch with his hands up

the first time your oppononent landed a puch would you change your tactics?

He spent the majority of the 9th round being hurt/holding on/tying up. People are forgetting this.

Not really, people like Froch are forgetting the previous 8 rounds or quite how empty it sounds when you have to declare yourself to be an ironman warrior, after getting your arse kicked by somebody who you were previously insisting should kiss your boots for the right to fight you.

They're not. Nearly everyone on here agrees that Groves destroyed him for the majority of the fight. But he was hurt more than once in round 9.