Thread: are we forgetting what the point of boxing is?

i feel like i have read on this board too many times about fighters being boring and that they deserve to lose because they arent crowd pleasing fighters. are we forgetting that it doesnt matter how you win as long as you win? and this thread is for supposed boxing fans, not casual fans. i understand that casual fans wont watch a boring fighter even if they are really good (for the most part) but most boxing fans will watch a great fighter no matter what (or at least they should).

a boring fighter may bring in less money to fights and less interest but i dont know how we as boxing fans cant just appreciate talented fighters. for example, the term "running" in boxing is ridiculous unless the fighter is actually just trying to survive. usually when people use the term "running," it means that they stayed back and jabbed and prevented any sort of exchanges. that isnt running, its called being effective. just like when people said that de la hoya ran the second half of the tito fight. he didnt run, he just stayed back and effectively outboxed tito.

i honestly dont care how boring a fighter is. i understand that the whole point of sports is winning. i mean honestly, what others sports matter that much on your style of play? in every other sport, winners will always get respect no matter what. in boxing, winners wont get respect if you thought they were boring. that is just ridiculous.

that is my rant.

You may not realise the difference between amateur and professional boxing.

Amateur is a sport.

Professional is a business.

Professional boxing was created to make money out of fighters. Promoters need personalities and excitment that fans want to see to help sell fights. If your fighter is bland and offers no excitiment you are going to struggle to sell tickets.

Have you paid to travel and watch Andre Ward fight? Have you paid to go and watch any other fighters?

Originally Posted by powerpuncher

i feel like i have read on this board too many times about fighters being boring and that they deserve to lose because they arent crowd pleasing fighters. are we forgetting that it doesnt matter how you win as long as you win? and this thread is for supposed boxing fans, not casual fans. i understand that casual fans wont watch a boring fighter even if they are really good (for the most part) but most boxing fans will watch a great fighter no matter what (or at least they should).

a boring fighter may bring in less money to fights and less interest but i dont know how we as boxing fans cant just appreciate talented fighters. for example, the term "running" in boxing is ridiculous unless the fighter is actually just trying to survive. usually when people use the term "running," it means that they stayed back and jabbed and prevented any sort of exchanges. that isnt running, its called being effective. just like when people said that de la hoya ran the second half of the tito fight. he didnt run, he just stayed back and effectively outboxed tito.

i honestly dont care how boring a fighter is. i understand that the whole point of sports is winning. i mean honestly, what others sports matter that much on your style of play? in every other sport, winners will always get respect no matter what. in boxing, winners wont get respect if you thought they were boring. that is just ridiculous.

that is my rant.

its probably you who is missing the point, boxing is entertainment


the rules are there and adapted to try and make it more entertaining


other sports adapt, football for example is constantly adapting the rules to try to create more goals. other sports are the same, cricket, rugby, etc etc etc



I always hear that judges tend to favour the come forward more aggressive fighter, whether they do or not is another question, they should tho theres no question about that because that is more entertaining


andre ward is a fantastic fighter, very hard to beat, he makes a relatively small amount of money, and rightly so, because the very good and effective style he has created is hard to watch

I think the culture change that has occurred in the past decades has created a "I want it now " way of thinking and this has crossed into sports and other forms of entertainment but professional boxing is still a sport and some of the skills that were appreciated in years passed are no longer viewed in way and with a more modern audience the subtle skill of say a benny valgar would certainly not be appreciated

I think we're going to have to accept that people are stupid and too damn lazy to learn why anything other than "he hit hard, me like" is interesting. Boxing reflects why homosapien will be the first species to cause our own extinction. If anything is good we are sure to ruin it. Pandering to the lowest common denominator, our recipe is for disaster.

Originally Posted by YIDDLE

I think the culture change that has occurred in the past decades has created a "I want it now " way of thinking and this has crossed into sports and other forms of entertainment but professional boxing is still a sport and some of the skills that were appreciated in years passed are no longer viewed in way and with a more modern audience the subtle skill of say a benny valgar would certainly not be appreciated

utter bollox


always been the same


people love a fight and fighters that fight make more money

The point of boxing is to promote an event that will draw a crowd and make money.

It's the modern mainstream money-making culture.

People have always craved for intense entertainment (and pro boxing is just that, of course) but the thing is that audiences have become too numerous and you can't expect so many people to be very demanding on subtlety.

The same thing for music and films; 30 years ago it was the innovative and/or quality stuff that hit the mainstream; now the mainstream is packed with a mish-mash of rubbish year after year. No room for "weird" music like The Doors or David Bowie on Top of the Pops.

It all benefits the more mediocre artists whilst the good ones get the scraps.

Originally Posted by goti71

It's the modern mainstream money-making culture.

People have always craved for intense entertainment (and pro boxing is just that, of course) but the thing is that audiences have become too numerous and you can't expect so many people to be very demanding on subtlety.

The same thing for music and films; 30 years ago it was the innovative and/or quality stuff that hit the mainstream; now the mainstream is packed with a mish-mash of rubbish year after year. No room for "weird" music like The Doors or David Bowie on Top of the Pops.

It all benefits the more mediocre artists whilst the good ones get the scraps.

agreed. the thing that i have learned is that money ruins everything. everything turns into making money instead of being the best. like you said, most blockbuster movies are actually very good. they have a lot of explosions and small minded people are entertained by that rather than by a movie which makes you think.

same with boxing i guess. small minded people cant enjoy a master boxing but can enjoy a brawl which doesnt take any brain power to comprehend.

Originally Posted by ross

You may not realise the difference between amateur and professional boxing.

Amateur is a sport.

Professional is a business.

Professional boxing was created to make money out of fighters. Promoters need personalities and excitment that fans want to see to help sell fights. If your fighter is bland and offers no excitiment you are going to struggle to sell tickets.

Have you paid to travel and watch Andre Ward fight? Have you paid to go and watch any other fighters?

so professional sports arent actually sports?

Originally Posted by goti71

It's the modern mainstream money-making culture.

People have always craved for intense entertainment (and pro boxing is just that, of course) but the thing is that audiences have become too numerous and you can't expect so many people to be very demanding on subtlety.

The same thing for music and films; 30 years ago it was the innovative and/or quality stuff that hit the mainstream; now the mainstream is packed with a mish-mash of rubbish year after year. No room for "weird" music like The Doors or David Bowie on Top of the Pops.

It all benefits the more mediocre artists whilst the good ones get the scraps.

ha


this thread need to be renamed


"talk utter bollox and mention the good old days"

Originally Posted by powerpuncher

Originally Posted by ross

You may not realise the difference between amateur and professional boxing.

Amateur is a sport.

Professional is a business.

Professional boxing was created to make money out of fighters. Promoters need personalities and excitment that fans want to see to help sell fights. If your fighter is bland and offers no excitiment you are going to struggle to sell tickets.

Have you paid to travel and watch Andre Ward fight? Have you paid to go and watch any other fighters?

so professional sports arent actually sports?

Well if you really scrutinised proffesional boxing and looked at the scoring and how a crowd cheering or an aggressive fighter, or even a promoter offering hospitality can influence the scoring. Basically, the scores you see are however the judges want to iterperet what they are seeing. Only a winner or a loser of each round.

Now compare that to the sport of amateur boxings scoring system. Counting how many scoring punches land with force on the target area, just like fencing, you jave something to base a score on that cant be disputed.

Just like football has goals, you have something concrete to base a score off. How would football fans feel if the scoring was changed from how many goals to what ever 3 judges thought of the way each team played?

Almost like the difference between pro and amateur wrestling. Obviously thats exagerating but its the difference between an actual sport and a business.

You can be good and promote yourself at the same time, look at Ali, Tyson, Mayorga etc. All the very best and u disputed at one point and also, everyone wanted to watch them.

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by powerpuncher

Originally Posted by ross

You may not realise the difference between amateur and professional boxing.

Amateur is a sport.

Professional is a business.

Professional boxing was created to make money out of fighters. Promoters need personalities and excitment that fans want to see to help sell fights. If your fighter is bland and offers no excitiment you are going to struggle to sell tickets.

Have you paid to travel and watch Andre Ward fight? Have you paid to go and watch any other fighters?

so professional sports arent actually sports?

Well if you really scrutinised proffesional boxing and looked at the scoring and how a crowd cheering or an aggressive fighter, or even a promoter offering hospitality can influence the scoring. Basically, the scores you see are however the judges want to iterperet what they are seeing. Only a winner or a loser of each round.

Now compare that to the sport of amateur boxings scoring system. Counting how many scoring punches land with force on the target area, just like fencing, you jave something to base a score on that cant be disputed.

Just like football has goals, you have something concrete to base a score off. How would football fans feel if the scoring was changed from how many goals to what ever 3 judges thought of the way each team played?

Almost like the difference between pro and amateur wrestling. Obviously thats exagerating but its the difference between an actual sport and a business.

You can be good and promote yourself at the same time, look at Ali, Tyson, Mayorga etc. All the very best and u disputed at one point and also, everyone wanted to watch them.

Football results are affected (sometimes decided) by referees interpretation of different situations. All pro sport is a business. Its a business because its about making money but it certainly it still a sport. The start of this thread is correct, boxing fans should appreciate the best in the sport, even if they do not enjoy watching them.

I enjoy a good sound technical boxer as much as I do a slugger. People find Rigo to be one of the most boring fighters but just watching him you can see how much he's thinking in there and he's so precise landing clean accurate punches. The thing with Ward is that yes he is very good and undefeated but he hits once and holds. Throws a two punches combo holds and squeezes the guys arms. That's just not boxing what he does is basically what MMA fighters do when against the cage. Hold throw small meaningless punches shoulder and elbow.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by goti71

It's the modern mainstream money-making culture.

People have always craved for intense entertainment (and pro boxing is just that, of course) but the thing is that audiences have become too numerous and you can't expect so many people to be very demanding on subtlety.

The same thing for music and films; 30 years ago it was the innovative and/or quality stuff that hit the mainstream; now the mainstream is packed with a mish-mash of rubbish year after year. No room for "weird" music like The Doors or David Bowie on Top of the Pops.

It all benefits the more mediocre artists whilst the good ones get the scraps.

ha


this thread need to be renamed


"talk utter bollox and mention the good old days"

Not bollocks at all. Sadly it's just the way it is with mainstream; the wider the public, the more it can or has to be dumbed down to make cash.

And I don't give a sod about the good old days.