Thread: I think the pressure got to Hagler against Leonard

Particularly the first 3-4 rounds. He was so uncharacteristic and apprehensive, and it ultimately cost him the fight.

I don't think he was surprised by Leonard or was underestimating him either, but the magnitude of the event had gotten to him, and it affected his performance early on.

I see it quite the opposite. I think Hagler severely underestimated Leonard and was severely over confident that he would waste the 3 year retired ex welter. so much so that he gave Leonard glove choice, ring size and agreed to 12 rounds instead of 15 which in hindsight most likely was the difference as Rays legs were gone at the end of 12. Hagler further showed his arrogance or blind brawn by coming out right handed for the first couple of rounds. And again that also cost him over 12. He lost the first 2 rounds. He certainly made more money in that fight then any other but if he was not extremely confident he would have never agreed to those things or come out orthodox.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

I see it quite the opposite. I think Hagler severely underestimated Leonard and was severely over confident that he would waste the 3 year retired ex welter. so much so that he gave Leonard glove choice, ring size and agreed to 12 rounds instead of 15 which in hindsight most likely was the difference as Rays legs were gone at the end of 12. Hagler further showed his arrogance or blind brawn by coming out right handed for the first couple of rounds. And again that also cost him over 12. He lost the first 2 rounds. He certainly made more money in that fight then any other but if he was not extremely confident he would have never agreed to those things or come out orthodox.

Agreed. Add on that he was set to retire and had checked out mentally. The only thing that lead him to fight on with the problems in his relationship was that it was his dream fight. A fight he was all too sure he would win. And he thought he was winning, the judges thought otherwise. Hagler could have gone 20 rounds, Ray just wanted to steal 7.

~ Poor Decision by the Hagler Team ~

First and foremost, agreeing to fight in Las Vegas.

That was Ray Leonard's town. They loved the 'fancy dancer'.

So it's plain, Haglar got to Haglar!

Originally Posted by beenKOed

So it's plain, Haglar got to Haglar!

I think you're on to something.

Excellent analysis.........

But you did spell .... H-A-G-L-E-R ... incorrectly, so you lose 'points' on the above statement.

Leonard would not have taken the fight had all his stipulations on gloves, ring size, number of rounds etc...not been met. There simply would not have been a fight and therefore no huge payday for Hagler had he not agreed to all Leonard's wishes.

Could be a number of factors. After the Mugabi fight and maybe even earlier, Hagler was thinking about retiring, which is the first sign that a fighter's heart isn't 100% in it anymore like it used to be. Then you have a guy coming back from a 3 year retirement, a welterweight who had retired because he felt he "didn't have it anymore" and of course was forced into a medical retirement before that... and here Hagler is an absolute monster at MW, just destroying everyone he puts hands on... it's pretty easy to get overconfident there. And of course you have to give huge credit to SRL, who fought a great fight.

In the end, I have to go back to Hagler's decision to fight orthodox for the first 2 rounds and essentially give those rounds away. If he had fought southpaw and won those two rounds, he picks up the SD. If he won at least one of them, it's a majority draw, he keeps his title and there's probably a rematch. To this day I wonder what the fuck he was thinking to not come out southpaw.

Originally Posted by Sleepwalker

Particularly the first 3-4 rounds. He was so uncharacteristic and apprehensive, and it ultimately cost him the fight.

I don't think he was surprised by Leonard or was underestimating him either, but the magnitude of the event had gotten to him, and it affected his performance early on.

Great insight on both sides. I gotta agree with your take.
1. There is a book called In the corner. Trainers talk about their art.

Haglar's trainers (Petronelli Brothers) stated Haglar gave away the 1st 4 rounds.
2. There is a documentary I think HBO's Legendary Nights the tale of Haglar-Leonard-where Ray stated he took Marvin out to dinner (after the Mugabi fight) . Marvin told him he was ready to retire, that he felt he could even cut easy at that point of his career.

My take: Hagler took that fight after being somewhat coerced into the idea of how much more money he could make. More than he'd ever made & a chance to beat Ray.

Haglar's heart was into it. Doesn't mean he would've won if it was-rather Ray pushed him into it, once Ray had EVERY SINGLE card stacke on his side.

http://www.amazon.com/In-Corner-Grea.../dp/0688094465

This isn't the docu where I thought Ray stated it- but around 13 min or so it does state how Haglar really was ready to retire.

Stilla geat documentary.

Hagler fought the wrong stance for the early rounds and gave the rounds away. That ultimately cost him the fight.

The only other time Hagler fought conservatively was against Duran.

I think his inability to adjust got to him. SRL saw that in the Mugabi fight and felt he could frustrate Hagler with last second flurries and shoe shining. SRL was correct.

Originally Posted by Master

Hagler fought the wrong stance for the early rounds and gave the rounds away. That ultimately cost him the fight.

The only other time Hagler fought conservatively was against Duran.

That & the fact that Ray could take a punch. Rounds 9-10 Marvelous cut the ring off, marvelously! Trapped Ray on the ropes- Damn Ray earned his manhood in those 2 rounds alone.

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Haglar's heart was into it. Doesn't mean he would've won if it was-rather Ray pushed him into it, once Ray had EVERY SINGLE card stacke on his side.

Maybe the mental cards, but physically he was a welterweight coming off of a 3 year retirement (his second) and fighting a top 3 ATG middleweight with 52 KO's in 62 wins. It was a ballsy move by SRL no matter how you look at it.

To this day, SRL still doesn't get enough credit for his power and "bruteness".

People still view him as some type of feather-fisted pretty boy who relied only on speed and danced his way to victory most of the time.

He was the prototype Welterweight.