Thread: Meanwhile - In Boxing

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

Behave.

He's beaten...

Dirrell
Kessler
Abraham
Bute
Pascal
Taylor
Groves (x2)

In and around their prime. Far more impressive resume than Calzaghe and Hatton.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

I think the problem is Froch know's Ward's all wrong for him and it will be the same again.The only advantage would be that andre has not been that active lately.Would it sell out wembley anyway I'm not so sure?

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

Behave.

He's beaten...

Dirrell
Kessler
Abraham
Bute
Pascal
Taylor
Groves (x2)

In and around their prime. Far more impressive resume than Calzaghe and Hatton.

I agree Froch still deserves massive respect in the game for what he has done.

Calzaghe however was a better fighter thou

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

Behave.

He's beaten...

Dirrell
Kessler
Abraham
Bute
Pascal
Taylor
Groves (x2)

In and around their prime. Far more impressive resume than Calzaghe and Hatton.

Firstly, Calzaghe and Hatton were both undisputed No.1 in their divisions at one time. Secondly, as far as your list goes, please note:

Dirrell - Many people think that Froch got lucky and that Dirrell beat him.

Kessler - When Calzaghe beat Kessler, he was in his prime, When Froch lost to him, he was a little less than that , and when Froch Beat him, he was clearly finished. Let us not forget that he only got to the Super Six final because Kessler pulled out with an injury. And to get to the final, he still struggled unconvincingly to get past an ageing Glen Johnson.

Abraham - Has never been the force he was at MW, nonetheless a decent performance at World level, but no more than that.

Bute - we have since discovered that Bute was not up to World standard as he has done fuck all since, clearly overrated by many at the time (including me!)

Pascal - Was a young inexperienced fighter at the time, certainly not what he has become.

Taylor - Blown up MW that decked Froch early on and was 14 seconds away from beating him, and that's a fact.

Groves (x2) - now I like Groves, and I think he's a good fighter, potentially and hopefully a World Champion. But when Froch fought him, he wasn't a proven World Level fighter and indeed he still isn't until he proves that.
to start a comparison with Calzaghe and Hatton is disrespectful and unrealistic in my view, and I would go further by saying that taking Calzaghe , Benn , Eubank, Watson and Collins into consideration, Froch would be bottom of that pile.
I'm sure some people will disagree, but that's how I see it, and at least I have given reasons for my opinion.

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

Behave.

He's beaten...

Dirrell
Kessler
Abraham
Bute
Pascal
Taylor
Groves (x2)

In and around their prime. Far more impressive resume than Calzaghe and Hatton.

Firstly, Calzaghe and Hatton were both undisputed No.1 in their divisions at one time. Secondly, as far as your list goes, please note:

Dirrell - Many people think that Froch got lucky and that Dirrell beat him.

Kessler - When Calzaghe beat Kessler, he was in his prime, When Froch lost to him, he was a little less than that , and when Froch Beat him, he was clearly finished. Let us not forget that he only got to the Super Six final because Kessler pulled out with an injury. And to get to the final, he still struggled unconvincingly to get past an ageing Glen Johnson.

Abraham - Has never been the force he was at MW, nonetheless a decent performance at World level, but no more than that.

Bute - we have since discovered that Bute was not up to World standard as he has done fuck all since, clearly overrated by many at the time (including me!)

Pascal - Was a young inexperienced fighter at the time, certainly not what he has become.

Taylor - Blown up MW that decked Froch early on and was 14 seconds away from beating him, and that's a fact.

Groves (x2) - now I like Groves, and I think he's a good fighter, potentially and hopefully a World Champion. But when Froch fought him, he wasn't a proven World Level fighter and indeed he still isn't until he proves that.
to start a comparison with Calzaghe and Hatton is disrespectful and unrealistic in my view, and I would go further by saying that taking Calzaghe , Benn , Eubank, Watson and Collins into consideration, Froch would be bottom of that pile.
I'm sure some people will disagree, but that's how I see it, and at least I have given reasons for my opinion.

I don't disagree with a lot you say,but i thought he showed real heart in the super six at the time for a fighter who had been around the block, but never really got noticed till then. So i will always respect him for that.

Your right about bute, because no one gave froch a chance when that fight was made so at the time he still has to be given respect for that.
When you look at it really Froch win at Wembley was he's most emphatic and certainly not in the class of Calzaghe.

Agreed, Islington, but I have to be careful with copying too many quotes cos I get a bollocking for making the page 2 miles long! 😀

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

I don't like Ward but the guy has always been honest. If Froch doesn't want the fight he doesn't want the fight. Wish, like Ward says, that Froch would just say that.

i think he has hasnt he?

Originally Posted by Islington haye maker

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

Behave.

He's beaten...

Dirrell
Kessler
Abraham
Bute
Pascal
Taylor
Groves (x2)

In and around their prime. Far more impressive resume than Calzaghe and Hatton.

Firstly, Calzaghe and Hatton were both undisputed No.1 in their divisions at one time. Secondly, as far as your list goes, please note:

Dirrell - Many people think that Froch got lucky and that Dirrell beat him.

Kessler - When Calzaghe beat Kessler, he was in his prime, When Froch lost to him, he was a little less than that , and when Froch Beat him, he was clearly finished. Let us not forget that he only got to the Super Six final because Kessler pulled out with an injury. And to get to the final, he still struggled unconvincingly to get past an ageing Glen Johnson.

Abraham - Has never been the force he was at MW, nonetheless a decent performance at World level, but no more than that.

Bute - we have since discovered that Bute was not up to World standard as he has done fuck all since, clearly overrated by many at the time (including me!)

Pascal - Was a young inexperienced fighter at the time, certainly not what he has become.

Taylor - Blown up MW that decked Froch early on and was 14 seconds away from beating him, and that's a fact.

Groves (x2) - now I like Groves, and I think he's a good fighter, potentially and hopefully a World Champion. But when Froch fought him, he wasn't a proven World Level fighter and indeed he still isn't until he proves that.
to start a comparison with Calzaghe and Hatton is disrespectful and unrealistic in my view, and I would go further by saying that taking Calzaghe , Benn , Eubank, Watson and Collins into consideration, Froch would be bottom of that pile.
I'm sure some people will disagree, but that's how I see it, and at least I have given reasons for my opinion.

I don't disagree with a lot you say,but i thought he showed real heart in the super six at the time for a fighter who had been around the block, but never really got noticed till then. So i will always respect him for that.

Your right about bute, because no one gave froch a chance when that fight was made so at the time he still has to be given respect for that.
When you look at it really Froch win at Wembley was he's most emphatic and certainly not in the class of Calzaghe.

froch was underdog in most of those fights

probly with exception of groves and dirrell

says a lot

p.s. froch beat dirrell

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

Behave.

He's beaten...

Dirrell
Kessler
Abraham
Bute
Pascal
Taylor
Groves (x2)

In and around their prime. Far more impressive resume than Calzaghe and Hatton.

Yeah but at no point was he the best 168lber in the world. That's something Calzaghe and Hatton have over him: they ruled their divisions in their time... not Froch!

And Hatton dethroned one of the best 140lbers in history to do it.

And if Froch spends his remaining career avoiding Andre Ward, he's a punk and doesn't deserve to be mentioned with those guys, I don't care who he's beaten.

If you have no desire to avenge a loss and beat a guy that considered to be the #1 in your weight division, you're a punk and you have no business being mentioned with the best.

Ward refuses to come to England unless it's at Wembley stadium.

45,000 punters is not enough for him.

Delusions of grandeur....

Originally Posted by Fenster

Ward refuses to come to England unless it's at Wembley stadium.

45,000 punters is not enough for him.

Delusions of grandeur....

Well to be fair, for what its worth , Ward is the "Super" champion and Froch is only the Regular champion. The governing body mandated Froch to fight him , so the Proper Champion should have home advantage anyway, no?
I think he's being generous coming to the UK full stop.

Froch should be chomping at the bit to get back at Ward, who beat him once and is considered to be the best at 168 and one of the top p4p in the world. Froch should fight in Ward's basement if he had to. These guys aren't equals, Ward is considered the best and already whipped Froch. It should be Froch hungry to fight him.

The fact is he doesn't care about taking on the challenge. He's happy staying in his own little fish bowl like so many Brits were before him.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Islington haye maker

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Disappointing if true for Froch. He wants to be a great UK fighter like Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, ect? Well all of those guys were, in their time, the undisputed #1 in their divisions. Froch might be ranked #1 by default, but he'll never be the true #1 unless he fights and beats Andre Ward. Until then I don't think he should be mentioned among the best UK fighters.

Behave.

He's beaten...

Dirrell
Kessler
Abraham
Bute
Pascal
Taylor
Groves (x2)

In and around their prime. Far more impressive resume than Calzaghe and Hatton.

Firstly, Calzaghe and Hatton were both undisputed No.1 in their divisions at one time. Secondly, as far as your list goes, please note:

Dirrell - Many people think that Froch got lucky and that Dirrell beat him.

Kessler - When Calzaghe beat Kessler, he was in his prime, When Froch lost to him, he was a little less than that , and when Froch Beat him, he was clearly finished. Let us not forget that he only got to the Super Six final because Kessler pulled out with an injury. And to get to the final, he still struggled unconvincingly to get past an ageing Glen Johnson.

Abraham - Has never been the force he was at MW, nonetheless a decent performance at World level, but no more than that.

Bute - we have since discovered that Bute was not up to World standard as he has done fuck all since, clearly overrated by many at the time (including me!)

Pascal - Was a young inexperienced fighter at the time, certainly not what he has become.

Taylor - Blown up MW that decked Froch early on and was 14 seconds away from beating him, and that's a fact.

Groves (x2) - now I like Groves, and I think he's a good fighter, potentially and hopefully a World Champion. But when Froch fought him, he wasn't a proven World Level fighter and indeed he still isn't until he proves that.
to start a comparison with Calzaghe and Hatton is disrespectful and unrealistic in my view, and I would go further by saying that taking Calzaghe , Benn , Eubank, Watson and Collins into consideration, Froch would be bottom of that pile.
I'm sure some people will disagree, but that's how I see it, and at least I have given reasons for my opinion.

I don't disagree with a lot you say,but i thought he showed real heart in the super six at the time for a fighter who had been around the block, but never really got noticed till then. So i will always respect him for that.

Your right about bute, because no one gave froch a chance when that fight was made so at the time he still has to be given respect for that.
When you look at it really Froch win at Wembley was he's most emphatic and certainly not in the class of Calzaghe.

froch was underdog in most of those fights

probly with exception of groves and dirrell

says a lot

p.s. froch beat dirrell

No he didn't. And it wasn't even very close. That's why everyone called it a robbery immediately.

No problem if Ward doesn't want to fight Froch or vice versa - but Ward refuses to fight in front of 40,000 in a football ground, the biggest audience he will ever experience, because he believes he's big enough for 80,000 at Wembley.

He's clearly comfortable to stay in his hometown. And he is fighting (to quote him) the best guy at supermiddle, Paul Smith, other than the ducker Carl Froch. Fair play.