My Take on Pacquiao-Marquez 2...
Posted 03-17-2008 at 09:38 PM by Pacstraightleft
The fight itself - Average
The expectations of Pac knocking out Marquez in this fight and total domination did not happen. The expection of Marquez overwhelmingly outboxing Pac w/ a lop sided score also didn't happen. The fight had some thrills here and there on some rounds but the outcome was almost predictable - Marquez being a technical fighter indeed had a bit more points counter punching as usual fighting backwards and Pac throwing bombs going for a KO win also didn't happen though he was able to violently knock him down once in the third and almost decked him again in the 10th. It really looked like round 13-24 except for Pac's improved defense and patience, but it almost looked like a replay of the first fight they had only this time, they were older and 5 pounds bigger and stronger.
The Decision: Debateable but not controversial
[IMG]http://philboxing.com/news/pix/pac.victor.080315.275w.jpg[/IMG]
After watching the fight over and over again, I had Pac winning the fight by 1 point and that is because of the knockdown of JMM in the third. Marquez did clealry win some rounds by points but Pac also won some rounds specially the latter rounds. Pac also connected the cleaner and more powerful punches while Marquez only managed to rock Manny in the entire fight at the most 3 times and that was it.
Why Manny deserves the win:
He knocked JMM down with a clean powerful shot to the chin.
He was the aggressor the entire fight pressing the action and fighting forward.
He landed the cleaner and more powerful punch in the fight.
He was not knocked down nor overwhelmed by Marquez counter punching.
[IMG]http://www.photopile.com/photos/dantzu/auctions/307706.gif[/IMG]
Why JMM barely lost:
He got knocked down in the third and almost went down again in the 10th after a Pac straight left.
He fought backwards again the entire fight counter punching and on some rounds he was fighting not to get knocked out.
Despite two clean connects that seem to have rattled Pac, he didn't follow up on it enough to convince that he did indeed hurt Pac enough to go for the kill.
Despite his Technical brilliance, he failed to display that he can overwhelmingly and convincingly beat Pac at his own game and phase, Pac actually boxed against the boxer and was not overwhelmingly unmatched.
Though many said he outboxed Pac, it still wasn't convincing enough that he controlled and outmatched Pac in every single round.
[IMG]http://philboxing.com/news/pix/marquez.down.jpg[/IMG]
The controversy that Marquez should be the winner:
How can Marquez be declared the winner when:
1. He was the only one who got knocked down the entire fight.
2. He was never the agressor and fought backwards.
3. He fought to survive on some rounds.
4. Did not display enough superiority and domination over Pac in power to knock him out or a lop sided scoring in points in every single round.
This is a classic example of styles makes fights. Pac is still the Pac who is powerful and fast who has improved but fighting guys like JMM doesn't allow these traits of Pac to fully show. The perfect style to fight against Pac is the style JMM and Marco Antonion Barrera utilized and that is to fight backwards counter punching making sure not to get knocked out. Translation - boring fight. The exciting fights Pac had are with guys who fought toe to toe against him, that brings out the Pac that people know, the hardest puncher and the most tenacious in the lower weight classes. Guys like JMM who fights backwards makes Pac look ugly. It's difficult to knock out someone who doesn't want to engage and fights backwards. JMM fight plan didn't seem brilliant to me, it was so fundamentaly simple, Pac throws one power punch going forward, JMM follows up with three quick but not deadly counters to keep Pac away. Some people translate these types of fights as Pac's skill declining but in reality, how can you knock out what keeps backing up and countering ring like a scared cat... try poking a scared cat in it's belly once and the cat will claw at you 3 or five times in a blink of an eye. That's the style I saw from JMM and that's what two of the three judges saw. To beat Pac, you must at least knock him down, convincingly hurt him or make him fight backwards. None of the three was ever established by JMM.
A Rematch: Yes but the outcome will be the same even if they fought 100 times because of their styles. I still give Pac the edge however because of the adjustment in the third fight they will make and Pac is just too powerful, younger and in his prime for a counter punching JMM to convingly beat or even knockout.
Observation on Pac that's somewhat bothersome:
He seemed over confident in this fight. Didn't really see much of a sense of urgency. I hope the people around him and fame and fortune hasn't gotten to his head, but unfortunately, I did see some of those signs. I did not see the Pac that fought overwhelming pummeled Barrera in their first fight nor the Pac that fought a trilogy w/ El Terrible. I hope I'm wrong and if I'm right, Pac needs to refocus and reasses himself before he embarrasses himself and his coutrymen by being overconfident. Again, just my observation.
Congratulations to JMM for a great preparation and putting up a great challenge against the worlds arguable #2 pound for pound boxer. But if he really thinks he's better, he's got to show that he can overwhelmingly hurt Pac and knock him out. This he didn't do in this fight.
The expectations of Pac knocking out Marquez in this fight and total domination did not happen. The expection of Marquez overwhelmingly outboxing Pac w/ a lop sided score also didn't happen. The fight had some thrills here and there on some rounds but the outcome was almost predictable - Marquez being a technical fighter indeed had a bit more points counter punching as usual fighting backwards and Pac throwing bombs going for a KO win also didn't happen though he was able to violently knock him down once in the third and almost decked him again in the 10th. It really looked like round 13-24 except for Pac's improved defense and patience, but it almost looked like a replay of the first fight they had only this time, they were older and 5 pounds bigger and stronger.
The Decision: Debateable but not controversial
[IMG]http://philboxing.com/news/pix/pac.victor.080315.275w.jpg[/IMG]
After watching the fight over and over again, I had Pac winning the fight by 1 point and that is because of the knockdown of JMM in the third. Marquez did clealry win some rounds by points but Pac also won some rounds specially the latter rounds. Pac also connected the cleaner and more powerful punches while Marquez only managed to rock Manny in the entire fight at the most 3 times and that was it.
Why Manny deserves the win:
He knocked JMM down with a clean powerful shot to the chin.
He was the aggressor the entire fight pressing the action and fighting forward.
He landed the cleaner and more powerful punch in the fight.
He was not knocked down nor overwhelmed by Marquez counter punching.
[IMG]http://www.photopile.com/photos/dantzu/auctions/307706.gif[/IMG]
Why JMM barely lost:
He got knocked down in the third and almost went down again in the 10th after a Pac straight left.
He fought backwards again the entire fight counter punching and on some rounds he was fighting not to get knocked out.
Despite two clean connects that seem to have rattled Pac, he didn't follow up on it enough to convince that he did indeed hurt Pac enough to go for the kill.
Despite his Technical brilliance, he failed to display that he can overwhelmingly and convincingly beat Pac at his own game and phase, Pac actually boxed against the boxer and was not overwhelmingly unmatched.
Though many said he outboxed Pac, it still wasn't convincing enough that he controlled and outmatched Pac in every single round.
[IMG]http://philboxing.com/news/pix/marquez.down.jpg[/IMG]
The controversy that Marquez should be the winner:
How can Marquez be declared the winner when:
1. He was the only one who got knocked down the entire fight.
2. He was never the agressor and fought backwards.
3. He fought to survive on some rounds.
4. Did not display enough superiority and domination over Pac in power to knock him out or a lop sided scoring in points in every single round.
This is a classic example of styles makes fights. Pac is still the Pac who is powerful and fast who has improved but fighting guys like JMM doesn't allow these traits of Pac to fully show. The perfect style to fight against Pac is the style JMM and Marco Antonion Barrera utilized and that is to fight backwards counter punching making sure not to get knocked out. Translation - boring fight. The exciting fights Pac had are with guys who fought toe to toe against him, that brings out the Pac that people know, the hardest puncher and the most tenacious in the lower weight classes. Guys like JMM who fights backwards makes Pac look ugly. It's difficult to knock out someone who doesn't want to engage and fights backwards. JMM fight plan didn't seem brilliant to me, it was so fundamentaly simple, Pac throws one power punch going forward, JMM follows up with three quick but not deadly counters to keep Pac away. Some people translate these types of fights as Pac's skill declining but in reality, how can you knock out what keeps backing up and countering ring like a scared cat... try poking a scared cat in it's belly once and the cat will claw at you 3 or five times in a blink of an eye. That's the style I saw from JMM and that's what two of the three judges saw. To beat Pac, you must at least knock him down, convincingly hurt him or make him fight backwards. None of the three was ever established by JMM.
A Rematch: Yes but the outcome will be the same even if they fought 100 times because of their styles. I still give Pac the edge however because of the adjustment in the third fight they will make and Pac is just too powerful, younger and in his prime for a counter punching JMM to convingly beat or even knockout.
Observation on Pac that's somewhat bothersome:
He seemed over confident in this fight. Didn't really see much of a sense of urgency. I hope the people around him and fame and fortune hasn't gotten to his head, but unfortunately, I did see some of those signs. I did not see the Pac that fought overwhelming pummeled Barrera in their first fight nor the Pac that fought a trilogy w/ El Terrible. I hope I'm wrong and if I'm right, Pac needs to refocus and reasses himself before he embarrasses himself and his coutrymen by being overconfident. Again, just my observation.
Congratulations to JMM for a great preparation and putting up a great challenge against the worlds arguable #2 pound for pound boxer. But if he really thinks he's better, he's got to show that he can overwhelmingly hurt Pac and knock him out. This he didn't do in this fight.
Total Comments 4
Comments
 |  Nice work, pare. One aspect of judging many folks here don't understand is that not all judges see or judge the same way. They have their own styles and preferences which they are perfectly entitled to. Some 'mechanical' judges count puches, just like the compubox; some look at the skills; while many judges favor aggression and give more weight to fighters who come forward, and they tend to give KD's the most weight as a basis for their decision. The biggest mistakes of many fans are the they want the judges to see things the way they see them, which of course is impossible. We got to accept what they are and shouldn't expect them to follow what we prefer. I wonder why pac let the golden opportunity to KO Marquez on the 4th slip away just like that. Marquez look really bad after the KD, unlike the flash KD's of the first fight. He was ripe for the taking and I'm pretty sure pac could have done that if he really tried. I predicted a 4th round KO win for pac so naturally I'm really pizzed off by his failure to make my prediction come true - what a selfish way to put it, heh. By the way, pacstraight, try to highlight some important parts in your writing with bold letters. That'll help give strong impact or emphasis on some important points you're trying to highlight. |
Posted 03-17-2008 at 10:26 PM by pacfan  |
| | I don't how to edit it bro. I need to figure it out. Thanks for the response! |
| Posted 03-18-2008 at 04:43 PM by Pacstraightleft |
| | After closely watching the fight, I can say some rounds were very close, but if you base the decision on who clearly won more rounds, it was clearly pac with 5 to 4, but in that five rounds is also the 3rd round, so that makes it more like a 6-4 clearly won rounds for pac. The 3 other rounds could've have gone either way, but no way all of them could have gone to Marquez and that's what he needed for the win. |
| Posted 03-22-2008 at 08:13 PM by pacfan |
| | I agree with you Pacfan. While it is true that Pacquiao got hurt and could not see in the eigth round because he had blood dripping from his cut above the eye, Marquez did not even bother to go for the kill. If he even did, the judges were not impressed. He was a pepper-puncher. But [B]Pacquiao always intends to hurt[/B]. |
| Posted 03-23-2008 at 12:49 AM by Pacstraightleft |
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