Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Where did I say JMM put on 15lbs of muscle? That was a hypothetical.
What I said applies to the gaining of ANY muscle, whether we're talking 0.5lbs or 50lbs.
It is incredibly hard to pack any muscle on your body when you are undergoing insane cardio day in, day out. That is a fact. It's not debatable.
It is also incredibly hard to do it when you are damn near 40 years old. Our testosterone levels start to drop in our early 30s, sometimes even mid to late 20s. An athlete being physically superior in his late 30's/early 40's than he was in his mid 20's/early 30's is something that was completely unheard of before PED's became commonplace.
So for JMM to put on that much muscle (I gaurentee you it was more than 1lb, but that's a moot point) is NOT NORMAL. It DEFIES SCIENCE. It's not a question of hard work. It's a question of science, and the limitation of the human body.
I'm not saying he's necessarily even taking illegal PED's.
Are you aware of testosterone replacement therapy? That's 100% legal.
In the last 12 months I've gained 14lbs and my body fat is lower than it's been in a while.
I do a lot of hours of INTENSE cardio every week.
If it's possible for me to put on a stone, then why would it be nearly impossible for a 40 year elite athlete, surrounded by a team of nutritionists, chefs, coaches, soft tissue therapists etc to put on .5lb drug free?
As long as he isn't on a calorie defecit he can gain weight, in fact at 40 his basal metabolic rate is going to have slowed significantly, making weight gain easier, almost inevitable... I'm sure he doesn't struggle to get nutrient and calorie dense food personally cooked for him round the clock...
Perhaps the change is because JMM's idea of nutrition has changed from drinking his own piss? :vd:
Apparently Pac condradicting yourself and flip flopping several times as to why he won't do tests for Floyd (I'm scares of needles - he has tattoos, I don't want to lose a drop of blood near a fight - he did it for MAB, it will distupt my training - he claims he will do it for lesser fighters now?) isn't suspicious as fuck, but knocking somebody the fuck out who keeps walking on to your counter right is?
Who cares with what you do... What is the need to bring your personals in this discussion. maybe you are famous?
Irrelevant as it may be, with you taking free advertisement for yourself, doesn't add value to your argument.
For what is this? Who are you? A celebrity.... Can I get an autograph please?:cool:
An advertisement for 'me'? What am I selling? ??? 'Advertisement', fuck off.
Are you fucking high or something? Are you just retarded?
Are you accusing me of trying to impress people on a message board? Why would I care about getting pats on the back from you? ??? I don't need validation from people I don't know, only myself.
Are you saying I'm bragging? Bragging on the internet is easy and worthless, why would I bother?
I'm using myself as an example... A fucking EXAMPLE, if I, an average joe, with decent genetics, no chef, no nutritionist, no strength coach and limited time to exercise can gain 14lbs, then why can't a profesional athlete with extremely good genetics, unlimited time to exercise and a team of chefs, coaches and nutritionists can't gain 1lb of muscle when he starts using weight training for the first time?
You really can't work out what I am comparing? Simpleton.
Yes.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Great post and let me just say that I think they are all cheating at the highest level or at least the vast majority thereby making it an even playing field meaning cheating cannot be used as a reason for losing. Until the powers at be take their collective heads out of their collective asses to curb its use that statusquo remains. They most likely don't want to. Juice is responsible for to many highlight reels.
Thing is @
Kirkland Laing that's not evidence. Its guilt by association. Not only that, I think its safe to assume that every sports nutritionist on the planet knows Peds and how to use them. If Marquez wanted to cheat he didn't need to hire Heredia of all people. There are some pretty hard core supplements out and about that are over the counter. For guys like him that work out for a living the effects on a body type such as his could be or at least appear to be pretty dramatic.
His opponent was probably a career junior featherweight and managed to accomplish something that has never been done in over a hundred years coming all the way from 106.Carpentier started at fly and ended at hev but never destroyed opponents on the way up. Many of the people who defended Manny are now the biggest finger pointers at Marquez.
One of Marquez's biggest changes in his approach to this fight was its desired conclusion. He wanted a short fight and based his training around it. In fact the muscle build up was well on its way in the third fight. He had already lost 3 marathons including at least 1 that many thought he clearly won. He was going to take it out of the hands of the judges come hell or high water and he did.
Reasonable people who can remain objective will acknowledge the empirical footprint that led to the knockout and yet not the knockout itself. I simply cannot get my head around that. It contradicts the previous acknowledgement.
Heredia isn't a sports nutritionist. He's a pharmacist. Marquez had an actual sports nutritionist working with him when he was training to fight Mayweather and he looked nothing like he did when he fought Manny last time.
Lol look he and many other pharmacists claim to be nutritionists in this business. Conversely there are probably nutritionists that have knowledge of pharmacy. Point is the guy had access to anyone and all you guys have is guilt by association and the fact that he gained a pound and muscled up. That is not evidence of fact. You find that kind of thing on the front of all those magazines at the checkout aisles right next to the cover photo of the clam with legs. Its much more likely that Marquez's experience was responsible as evident by that perfect punch then chemistry. He weighed a pound more then what he weighed for Floyd and changed that flab into tone.Its happening daily at the local gym with people who most likely don't take it as serious as him.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Heredia is lower than scum, that cheat will get a bullet threw his brain. Fuck bastards like him should be cull out from the gene pool. Marquez made a huge mistake bringing him in. If Heredia wasn't in his corner there wouldn't be any asterisk next to his legacy.
There is no asterisk next to his legacy. Well maybe to some Pac groupies there is. But nobody give a fuck about that shot fan base There more than half way to extinction as it is. Ever since Marquez told Pacquiao it's nap time you don't even see them around any more.
Yes they also tried to resurrect Pac through Nonito bragging on how he takes tests. . They are soooo pathetic because Nonito works with Conte the PED king. Ariza has even said that with the regimen provided and 100% commitment the results were warranted even before being fired.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jahmez
Why do you take yourself so seriously AdamGB he's just fucking with you that's all
I don't like being fucked with by moronic pactards? ???
Seems a no brainer.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Great post and let me just say that I think they are all cheating at the highest level or at least the vast majority thereby making it an even playing field meaning cheating cannot be used as a reason for losing. Until the powers at be take their collective heads out of their collective asses to curb its use that statusquo remains. They most likely don't want to. Juice is responsible for to many highlight reels.
Thing is @
Kirkland Laing that's not evidence. Its guilt by association. Not only that, I think its safe to assume that every sports nutritionist on the planet knows Peds and how to use them. If Marquez wanted to cheat he didn't need to hire Heredia of all people. There are some pretty hard core supplements out and about that are over the counter. For guys like him that work out for a living the effects on a body type such as his could be or at least appear to be pretty dramatic.
His opponent was probably a career junior featherweight and managed to accomplish something that has never been done in over a hundred years coming all the way from 106.Carpentier started at fly and ended at hev but never destroyed opponents on the way up. Many of the people who defended Manny are now the biggest finger pointers at Marquez.
One of Marquez's biggest changes in his approach to this fight was its desired conclusion. He wanted a short fight and based his training around it. In fact the muscle build up was well on its way in the third fight. He had already lost 3 marathons including at least 1 that many thought he clearly won. He was going to take it out of the hands of the judges come hell or high water and he did.
Reasonable people who can remain objective will acknowledge the empirical footprint that led to the knockout and yet not the knockout itself. I simply cannot get my head around that. It contradicts the previous acknowledgement.
Heredia isn't a sports nutritionist. He's a pharmacist. Marquez had an actual sports nutritionist working with him when he was training to fight Mayweather and he looked nothing like he did when he fought Manny last time.
Lol look he and many other pharmacists claim to be nutritionists in this business. Conversely there are probably nutritionists that have knowledge of pharmacy. Point is the guy had access to anyone and all you guys have is guilt by association and the fact that he gained a pound and muscled up. That is not evidence of fact. You find that kind of thing on the front of all those magazines at the checkout aisles right next to the cover photo of the clam with legs. Its much more likely that Marquez's experience was responsible as evident by that perfect punch then chemistry. He weighed a pound more then what he weighed for Floyd and changed that flab into tone.Its happening daily at the local gym with people who most likely don't take it as serious as him.
My point exactly...
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Marquez is a career featherweight.
From young adulthood, say 18 years old to about 28-30 years old you fill out a bit. Boxers ut on a few more pounds over those years, move up in weight and so on.
Marquez was a featherweight until he was 32. He had one or two fights at 130 one at 135 and then made 143 to fight Floyd. At the weigh-in for Floyd he looked bloated and out of shape, like Duran looked when he moved up to welterweight. His next fight he made 133 and could probably have easily still made 130.
The exact same weight and strength training methods existed as exist today when he fought Floyd but there's a night and day difference in how he looked then and how he looks now. So much difference that there was enormous scepticism in the boxing press and the boxing industry that the change in physique at nearly 40 years of age was down to legal methods.
Marquez will tell you that it's all down to "hard work in the gym" which is the mantra of every steroid cheat of the PED era. The guy who is his strength and conditioning coach has zero qualifications as a strength and conditioning coach but has been convicted of producing and supplying various steroids and PEDs to Olympic athletes for years. He was one of the top PED guys in the world till he got caught. It was inevitable that a guy like this would eventually gravitate to boxing.
The Olympic Dealer [interview with �ngel Heredia] – BoxingSocialist.com
Great post and let me just say that I think they are all cheating at the highest level or at least the vast majority thereby making it an even playing field meaning cheating cannot be used as a reason for losing. Until the powers at be take their collective heads out of their collective asses to curb its use that statusquo remains. They most likely don't want to. Juice is responsible for to many highlight reels.
Thing is @
Kirkland Laing that's not evidence. Its guilt by association. Not only that, I think its safe to assume that every sports nutritionist on the planet knows Peds and how to use them. If Marquez wanted to cheat he didn't need to hire Heredia of all people. There are some pretty hard core supplements out and about that are over the counter. For guys like him that work out for a living the effects on a body type such as his could be or at least appear to be pretty dramatic.
His opponent was probably a career junior featherweight and managed to accomplish something that has never been done in over a hundred years coming all the way from 106.Carpentier started at fly and ended at hev but never destroyed opponents on the way up. Many of the people who defended Manny are now the biggest finger pointers at Marquez.
One of Marquez's biggest changes in his approach to this fight was its desired conclusion. He wanted a short fight and based his training around it. In fact the muscle build up was well on its way in the third fight. He had already lost 3 marathons including at least 1 that many thought he clearly won. He was going to take it out of the hands of the judges come hell or high water and he did.
Reasonable people who can remain objective will acknowledge the empirical footprint that led to the knockout and yet not the knockout itself. I simply cannot get my head around that. It contradicts the previous acknowledgement.
Heredia isn't a sports nutritionist. He's a pharmacist. Marquez had an actual sports nutritionist working with him when he was training to fight Mayweather and he looked nothing like he did when he fought Manny last time.
Literally anybody can call themselves a nutritionist, it doesn't mean that they are a good one.
Would a real nutritionist have him drinking his own piss? ??? :rolleyes:
The fact that he had 'a' nutritionist for one fight doesn't mean that having 'a' good nutritionist the next time won't make a difference
Yes, as one of the world's top few fighters preparing for the biggest fight of his career he probably just employed some fucker that was hanging round the gym to be his strength and conditioning coach.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Great post and let me just say that I think they are all cheating at the highest level or at least the vast majority thereby making it an even playing field meaning cheating cannot be used as a reason for losing. Until the powers at be take their collective heads out of their collective asses to curb its use that statusquo remains. They most likely don't want to. Juice is responsible for to many highlight reels.
Thing is @
Kirkland Laing that's not evidence. Its guilt by association. Not only that, I think its safe to assume that every sports nutritionist on the planet knows Peds and how to use them. If Marquez wanted to cheat he didn't need to hire Heredia of all people. There are some pretty hard core supplements out and about that are over the counter. For guys like him that work out for a living the effects on a body type such as his could be or at least appear to be pretty dramatic.
His opponent was probably a career junior featherweight and managed to accomplish something that has never been done in over a hundred years coming all the way from 106.Carpentier started at fly and ended at hev but never destroyed opponents on the way up. Many of the people who defended Manny are now the biggest finger pointers at Marquez.
One of Marquez's biggest changes in his approach to this fight was its desired conclusion. He wanted a short fight and based his training around it. In fact the muscle build up was well on its way in the third fight. He had already lost 3 marathons including at least 1 that many thought he clearly won. He was going to take it out of the hands of the judges come hell or high water and he did.
Reasonable people who can remain objective will acknowledge the empirical footprint that led to the knockout and yet not the knockout itself. I simply cannot get my head around that. It contradicts the previous acknowledgement.
Heredia isn't a sports nutritionist. He's a pharmacist. Marquez had an actual sports nutritionist working with him when he was training to fight Mayweather and he looked nothing like he did when he fought Manny last time.
Lol look he and many other pharmacists claim to be nutritionists in this business. Conversely there are probably nutritionists that have knowledge of pharmacy. Point is the guy had access to anyone and all you guys have is guilt by association and the fact that he gained a pound and muscled up. That is not evidence of fact. You find that kind of thing on the front of all those magazines at the checkout aisles right next to the cover photo of the clam with legs. Its much more likely that Marquez's experience was responsible as evident by that perfect punch then chemistry. He weighed a pound more then what he weighed for Floyd and changed that flab into tone.Its happening daily at the local gym with people who most likely don't take it as serious as him.
Name one qualified pharamacist who claims to be a strngth and conditioning coach other than Heredia.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
On December 8, 2012, Manny Pacquiao fought Juan Manuel Marquez at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. It was the fourth time that the two men had met in the ring. In thirty-six previous rounds, Marquez had been unable to knock Pacquiao down.
Marquez had a new look when he faced Pacquiao in their fourth encounter. Having trained under the supervision of Angel “Memo” Heredia (a/k/a Angel Hernandez), Juan Manuel was sporting a dramatically altered physique. To some, even his head seemed differently shaped.
Heredia’s resume includes a stint as a steroid dealer who cooperated with prosecutors after being ensnared in the BALCO drug scandal.
In round six, Marquez knocked Pacquiao unconscious with one punch. The image of Manny pitching forward and lying face-down on the canvas lingers in the mind. He lay there for a long time.
The floodgates are open now. Whether or not Marquez used illegal PEDs, a lot of fighters think that he did. And they’ll use them to further their own ring aspirations.
Pacquiao, like Marquez, has been suspected of PED use in the past and scored his share of brutal knockouts. Neither man has ever tested positive for illegal performance enhancing drugs. But it’s a matter of record that elite fighters like Fernando Vargas, James Toney, Antonio Tarver, Andre Berto, and Lamont Peterson have. Shane Mosley never tested positive, but his name surfaced in the BALCO investigation and he ultimately admitted using PEDs. Other fighters like Evander Holyfield, Jameel McCline, and Yuriorkis Gamboa have been linked to PED use by clinic records.
As I wrote nine months ago, “PED use is more prevalent in boxing now than ever before, particularly at the elite level. Fighters are reconfiguring their bodies and, in some instances, look like totally different physical beings. In a clean world, fighters don’t get older, heavier, and faster at the same time. But that’s what’s happening in boxing. Improved performances at an advanced age are becoming common. Fighters at age thirty-five are outperforming what they could do when they were thirty. In some instances, fighters are starting to perform at an elite level at an age when they would normally be expected to be on a downward slide. PEDs offer more than a shortcut. They take an athlete to a place that he, or she, might not be able to get to without them. When undertaken in conjunction with proper exercise and training, the use of PEDs creates a better athlete. The use of PEDs is also illegal, gives an athlete who uses them an unfair competitive advantage, and endangers other fighters who are getting hit in the head harder than before by opponents.”
Thomas Hauser
PEDs: When the lawsuits come
BoxingScene caught up with Marquez’s trainer Ignacio “Nacho” Beristain and was asked to give his thoughts on the upcoming clash.
“They’re going to find a completely different Juan Manuel Marquez than they saw against Pacquiao. Very strong, he’s gained speed. He’s dedicated to giving the Latino people another great victory” said Beristain.
Marquez isn’t exactly a spring chicken as he turns 40 years old today and is the reason why some doubt if Marquez can still be effective against a fighter like Bradley. Many think Bradley’s youth, strength and hunger will make the difference in the fight and aren’t sure if Marquez will be able to cope.
“We are trying to get a little more speed so we don’t give a chance to Bradley who’s fast. We are working on a lot of defense because when you make Bradley miss it’s like his batteries drain a bit. We intend on beating him [using] Mexican technique versus Bradley’s technique” Beristain would tell BoxingScene.
Both fighters have promised to bring their best and despite Marquez’s age, Beristain believes he’s still excelling at this stage of his career.
“He’s exceeding the level even though its odd seeing it at his age. He’s going to give you all a surprise”.
Luis Sandoval
Nacho: Marquez Will Be Very Strong, Faster For Bradley
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Well it is was more likely Pac was on roids then Marquez so if that was the case it was for once a even fight. As for that punch he has landed it a lot on pac this time with pac helping him out some. I think Marquez has been robbed enough fighting pac i am really glad he knocked him the fuck out.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
On December 8, 2012, Manny Pacquiao fought Juan Manuel Marquez at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. It was the fourth time that the two men had met in the ring. In thirty-six previous rounds, Marquez had been unable to knock Pacquiao down.
Marquez had a new look when he faced Pacquiao in their fourth encounter. Having trained under the supervision of Angel “Memo” Heredia (a/k/a Angel Hernandez), Juan Manuel was sporting a dramatically altered physique. To some, even his head seemed differently shaped.
Heredia’s resume includes a stint as a steroid dealer who cooperated with prosecutors after being ensnared in the BALCO drug scandal.
In round six, Marquez knocked Pacquiao unconscious with one punch. The image of Manny pitching forward and lying face-down on the canvas lingers in the mind. He lay there for a long time.
The floodgates are open now. Whether or not Marquez used illegal PEDs, a lot of fighters think that he did. And they’ll use them to further their own ring aspirations.
Pacquiao, like Marquez, has been suspected of PED use in the past and scored his share of brutal knockouts. Neither man has ever tested positive for illegal performance enhancing drugs. But it’s a matter of record that elite fighters like Fernando Vargas, James Toney, Antonio Tarver, Andre Berto, and Lamont Peterson have. Shane Mosley never tested positive, but his name surfaced in the BALCO investigation and he ultimately admitted using PEDs. Other fighters like Evander Holyfield, Jameel McCline, and Yuriorkis Gamboa have been linked to PED use by clinic records.
As I wrote nine months ago, “PED use is more prevalent in boxing now than ever before, particularly at the elite level. Fighters are reconfiguring their bodies and, in some instances, look like totally different physical beings. In a clean world, fighters don’t get older, heavier, and faster at the same time. But that’s what’s happening in boxing. Improved performances at an advanced age are becoming common. Fighters at age thirty-five are outperforming what they could do when they were thirty. In some instances, fighters are starting to perform at an elite level at an age when they would normally be expected to be on a downward slide. PEDs offer more than a shortcut. They take an athlete to a place that he, or she, might not be able to get to without them. When undertaken in conjunction with proper exercise and training, the use of PEDs creates a better athlete. The use of PEDs is also illegal, gives an athlete who uses them an unfair competitive advantage, and endangers other fighters who are getting hit in the head harder than before by opponents.”
Thomas Hauser
PEDs: When the lawsuits come
BoxingScene caught up with Marquez’s trainer Ignacio “Nacho” Beristain and was asked to give his thoughts on the upcoming clash.
“They’re going to find a completely different Juan Manuel Marquez than they saw against Pacquiao. Very strong, he’s gained speed. He’s dedicated to giving the Latino people another great victory” said Beristain.
Marquez isn’t exactly a spring chicken as he turns 40 years old today and is the reason why some doubt if Marquez can still be effective against a fighter like Bradley. Many think Bradley’s youth, strength and hunger will make the difference in the fight and aren’t sure if Marquez will be able to cope.
“We are trying to get a little more speed so we don’t give a chance to Bradley who’s fast. We are working on a lot of defense because when you make Bradley miss it’s like his batteries drain a bit. We intend on beating him [using] Mexican technique versus Bradley’s technique” Beristain would tell BoxingScene.
Both fighters have promised to bring their best and despite Marquez’s age, Beristain believes he’s still excelling at this stage of his career.
“He’s exceeding the level even though its odd seeing it at his age. He’s going to give you all a surprise”.
Luis Sandoval
Nacho: Marquez Will Be Very Strong, Faster For Bradley
PEDs offer more than a shortcut. They take an athlete to a place that he, or she, might not be able to get to without them. When undertaken in conjunction with proper exercise and training, the use of PEDs creates a better athlete. The use of PEDs is also illegal, gives an athlete who uses them an unfair competitive advantage, and endangers other fighters who are getting hit in the head harder than before by opponents.” You take the time to type out this fancy post when the verbiage above best describes Pac's unheard of meteoric rise that defies what any other fighter in history has ever achieved. The thought that a fighter can climb up so many weight classes and out-power fighters at their natural weight while declining PED tests all the while. It is the reason why Pac face first on the canvas image "viraled out," so fast and became comics ammo. I now know how a womans orgasm must feel .... ahhhh, the great feeling one gets seeing Pac Tards eat crow. They can not fathom that their "GOD" just got owned by a truly better "all around fighter" . Pac Tards call it a lucky punch , they give credit to Heredia for the KO but fail to realize Rios used Heredia in the rematch against vs Alvarado and lost. Then conveniently omit this in pre-fight posts to Rios fight. Pactards are truly the Brainless Bunch. I would love for the cherry picked , slow, light hitting, no lateral movement, no defense Rios to KTFO of Pac and retire his ass and see less Pac tard ignorant future posts. I already know the excuses.... Heredia did it again, juiced JMM result was the real cause, cramps in legs, .99 cent socks were the reason, Jinky and her ugly ass plastic surgery threw him off, and a new soon to be created excuse. The floodgates have always been open regarding Pac's PED use !!!! Write about that !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ask your footnote buddy Thomas Hauser , he'll tell you hell yes Pac juiced. Live by the sword die by the sword !!!
As for Marquez he will enter the showdown vs Bradley as the favorite to win a title in a fifth different division, making him the first Mexican to pull off such feat. A 5th fight in 2014 at 41 to pacify Pactards is senseless. He managed to sacrifice everything in their last fight for a KO and achieved his goal. Only a fool would try to replicate a masterpiece of a fight plan. No judging controversy, lethal KO = close the book , end of epic series! Marquez showed that he could knock Pacquiao out, and that Pacquiao could not knock him out in four tries.
