Froch - What Next for the Cobra...?

[Bomp]

Froch beats taylor everyday of the week for me

too smart a fighter to get drawn into jermains style of fight and his ability to pick a punch and win rounds in small spells would be more than enough to see him take a unanimous points decision.

Kesslers the fight id like to see and what with US tvs reluctance with mikkel its a distinct possibility kessler-froch come 2009 could well happen!!

What is Jermain's style of fight?

I'm not convinced of either fighter at super middlweight. Jermain would beat Froch to the punch nine times out of ten. Jermain has a good jab. I see Jermain beating Froch for the first 5 rounds and then Froch stepping it up. The fight would be close and it would depend on Jermain's stamina.

carls predominently a slow starter that takes time to work his opponent out.

But as soon as he realised taylors method of fighting straight lines Froch would box taylors head off and maybe even force a late stoppage.

That win saturday was one of the most impressive performances from a british fighter this year and froch is worthy of the kudos he`ll rightfully receive for it.

don't mistake entertaining for impressive. Defensively he was awful, and couldn't counter the wild shots coming his way. He showed OK stamina, a good chin, decent (but in no way devastating) power.

The question is whether this is enough to compete with the top guys, Taylor at 168 is still an unproven commodity so hard to say. Bute may be fragile enough to get to, but he's a decent boxer and could easily UD Froch in Canada. Bika and Andrade are interesting, guys with similar attributes to Froch. Andrade may be an even worse boxer, but has better stamina, it should be fun finding out.

[RozzySean]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

[Fenster]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I'd rather see Froch vs Bika/Andrade.. thats got serious PUNCH-UP written all over it

[HattonTheHammer]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

[Rantcatrat]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

I'm holding you to the comparison with Joe Calzaghe. Froch is no Joe.

I'm curious - besides being British, in what other ways are they comparable?

Pascal is no journeyman. He is a top twenty/thirty smw in a pretty deep division. But, he is Froch's biggest victory.

Taylor has a more proven record...at middleweight. Still, some of that experience has to translate to 168. Froch is untested - he hasn't been in the ring with Winkie, Bhop, or Pavlik. In addition, as expected, Taylor dominated Lacy in his last fight. Thus, I don't see the "steady decline." He lost to Pavlik twice. But, that's it. So what, he lost to the middleweight champion of the world. At this moment, my money is on Taylor if they fight.

I'd like to see Froch fight Bika. My gut tells me Bika would light him up, but Froch fought a good fight this last weekend and I may be way off the mark.

Froch may outbox Andrade. Outbox him in a different way than Bute, but outbox him much the same, and unlike Bute, Froch's chin would hold up.

As long as Bute isn't negatively affected by the knockout in his last fight, Bute would box circles around Froch.

Kessler would dominate Froch.

[Rantcatrat]

Taylor beat Hopkins and drew with Wright. He's stopped Raul Marquez and dominated Lacy (who blew out Robin Reid, Froch's second best win).

Bute has wins over Bika, Berrio, and Andrade.

Kessler is Kessler. He gave Calzaghe all he could handle, dominated Andrade, and beat Mundine like a rented mule on his home turf.

Froch has beaten a shot Robin Reid and a decent journeyman, Pascal. And Pascal gave him all he could handle. For all the hype Froch fans have given him, I expected him to destroy Pascal. From what I've seen of Pascal, he's nothing special at all and I expected a blowout.

If some people don't think much of him, it's just the he hasn't given us a reason to think much of him. Oh, and he's 31 years old, not some 26 yo prospect. That's not hate. Those are just he facts. I'm not saying he doesn't belong in the ring with those guys, but I can't see a single reason to make him a favorite.

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

Why the allegiance to Mundine? The guy is a c*nt.

[ross]

I don't see Taylor taking a fully fit Froch's power and Froch is a great finisher when he's got his man wobbled.
Gonna be interesting to see just how far he can go and i agree with Vienna that he could easily make the jump up in weight if he chose too as he's a big super middle.
Great times again for the UK scene

You and Tam need to calm down on Froch, his power looked meicocre on Saturday, he landed alot of his big shots on Pascal and Pascal fought wreckless and very open for someone with a poor chin against a supposed power puncher.

Also I dont see him being anywhere near the threat that Dawson is for Joe, in and around Joes weight, at least Dawson can fight at a pace with speed and accuracy, something Froch lacks.

I dont see Taylor as a threat to any of the top super middles, hes not strong enough, Cory spinks and Kasim Ouma both gave him a tough fight and both are light hitting welters

If Froch wants to make a statement he should fight kessler.

If he was nevous fighting the untested at world level with a shaky chin and open defence Pascal, hed be shiitting a brick V Kessler

If Joe had fought Pascal and looked like Froch did, wed all be saying its deffinitly time for Joe to retire but this is the best that Frcoh can hope for at 31 I spose

[RozzySean]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I'd rather see Froch vs Bika/Andrade.. thats got serious PUNCH-UP written all over it

I call Pascal a journeyman based on the quality of his wins. Plenty of guys build unbeaten records fighting nobodies. Based on his quality of opposition AND having seen him a few times, I don't rate him highly. To me, journeyman doesn't mean he's a bum. He's just not top class. For example, Kessler beat Dimitri Sartison, who was unbeaten at the time. Do you rate him much higher than journeyman? Nobody gave Kessler much credit for beating him (an unbeaten fighter) but Froch is supposed to get tons of credit for beating Pascal? Calvin Brock was 29-0 when Wlad KO'd him. Was he much better than a journeyman at the end of the day, or how about Timor Ibragamov at 21-0-1 when he lost to Brock. That was pretty much a classic battle of journeymen. Also plenty of guys build up good KO record when they are fighting nobodies, then once they get up with the big boys, their power doesn't seem so great. Pascal ate a lot of flush shots and kept coming. That could mean that he has a great chin, but it also means that Froch's power might be overrated and padded by his lack of strong opposition. Perhaps calling Pascal a journeyman is a bit of a liberty, but it's also not much of a stretch.

We'll see what happens now that he has a belt. Taylor looked pretty good against Lacy. Froch looks very open to the pressure style of Andrade. Bute has better skills.

[Fenster]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I'd rather see Froch vs Bika/Andrade.. thats got serious PUNCH-UP written all over it

I call Pascal a journeyman based on the quality of his wins. Plenty of guys build unbeaten records fighting nobodies. Based on his quality of opposition AND having seen him a few times, I don't rate him highly. To me, journeyman doesn't mean he's a bum. He's just not top class. For example, Kessler beat Dimitri Sartison, who was unbeaten at the time. Do you rate him much higher than journeyman? Nobody gave Kessler much credit for beating him (an unbeaten fighter) but Froch is supposed to get tons of credit for beating Pascal? Calvin Brock was 29-0 when Wlad KO'd him. Was he much better than a journeyman at the end of the day, or how about Timor Ibragamov at 21-0-1 when he lost to Brock. That was pretty much a classic battle of journeymen. Also plenty of guys build up good KO record when they are fighting nobodies, then once they get up with the big boys, their power doesn't seem so great. Pascal ate a lot of flush shots and kept coming. That could mean that he has a great chin, but it also means that Froch's power might be overrated and padded by his lack of strong opposition. Perhaps calling Pascal a journeyman is a bit of a liberty, but it's also not much of a stretch.

We'll see what happens now that he has a belt. Taylor looked pretty good against Lacy. Froch looks very open to the pressure style of Andrade. Bute has better skills.

Are you taking the piss?

You're classing unbeaten prospects as journeymen?

A journeyman is a fighter that has failed at top level - to make it to the top - and spends his career racking up losses against unbeaten prospect types.

Amost EVERY fighter on the way up builds their record on nobodies/journeymen. Their standing in boxing is determined by what happens when they get to the top.

[Bomp]

I don't see Taylor taking a fully fit Froch's power and Froch is a great finisher when he's got his man wobbled.
Gonna be interesting to see just how far he can go and i agree with Vienna that he could easily make the jump up in weight if he chose too as he's a big super middle.
Great times again for the UK scene

You and Tam need to calm down on Froch, his power looked meicocre on Saturday, he landed alot of his big shots on Pascal and Pascal fought wreckless and very open for someone with a poor chin against a supposed power puncher.

Also I dont see him being anywhere near the threat that Dawson is for Joe, in and around Joes weight, at least Dawson can fight at a pace with speed and accuracy, something Froch lacks.

I dont see Taylor as a threat to any of the top super middles, hes not strong enough, Cory spinks and Kasim Ouma both gave him a tough fight and both are light hitting welters

If Froch wants to make a statement he should fight kessler.

If he was nevous fighting the untested at world level with a shaky chin and open defence Pascal, hed be shiitting a brick V Kessler

If Joe had fought Pascal and looked like Froch did, wed all be saying its deffinitly time for Joe to retire but this is the best that Frcoh can hope for at 31 I spose

Some good points, especially the last one.

[RozzySean]

When I can tell by watching them that that's what they are, I do. Let's look back in five years and see what Jean Pascal's record looks like. It will be filled with losses to guys like Froch, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, etc if he sticks around the game that long.

Thus, when I see Froch matched against Pascal, though they both undefeated, I know that Pascal is nothing better than a journeyman-type, opponent-type fighter, and Froch, in spite of his pitiful opposition to date, has actual talent. The jury is still out on how high Froch will go, but time is running out on him.

You are pretty good judge of talent, Fenster. I give you credit for being able to tell the difference between a real prospect and a paper prospect by using your eyes. I know there are plenty of guys you have seen who are undefeated and young, but they are nothing more than average. Perhaps he's not a "journeyman" yet, but that's this future. If you rate Pascal any better, it's just because you love Froch and want this win to mean more than it does.

[LukeH]

How the hell can an unbeaten fighter be described as a journeyman??

And while im not arguing kesslers talent its hardly fair on mundine to insinuate that particular fight was one sided when mundine won 4rounds at the very least!

Froch is a protected fighter that has never fought outside of britain, doesnt have any real credible names to his record...yadda yadda yadda

The very same things were said about a certain Mr Calzaghe and thats not the only resembelance between the 2 fighters.

Froch will go all the way....mark my words!!

hes fought in america once

[littlerock]

Froch beats taylor everyday of the week for me

too smart a fighter to get drawn into jermains style of fight and his ability to pick a punch and win rounds in small spells would be more than enough to see him take a unanimous points decision.

Funny, switch their names and I'd agree with you 100%.

Taylor's got an amazing ability to steal rounds with flurries alone (see the 2nd Pavlik fight which was very close despite Taylor being outworked almost 2:1), not to mention his jab would score all night against Froch's exposed chin as well as work to set up his overhand right. He showed a pretty left hook off his jab in the Lacy fight too which I'm sure Froch would see plenty of.

I'd give Froch a chance to beat Taylor based on his power alone, but he's going to have to be both smart and lucky to do it, otherwise Taylor takes at least an 8-4 decision.

But Froch beating Taylor every day of the week? You cannot honestly believe it. You may want it, but you can't be buying it.

Taylor completely outworked Bhop in that 1st fight and yet only took a close decision because he failed to impress the judges later on in the rounds.

You dont see that with froch, he doesnt have to throw it all out their during a contest because he`s able to pick his moments consistently well and force mistakes out of his opponents rather than go looking for them as taylor does.

ok so everyday of the week may of been a bit harsh on my part. I just think if the fight was ever going to happen unless it was under a cortez type ref who would wanna break up frochs work pattern whenever possible carl would do enough to ensure he doesnt get himself caught on the ropes or forced into an all out slugout which taylor would win 9/10

You do realize you just compared Froch to Hopkins?

Froch may pick his shots but that's because he puts it all into every punch looking for a KO and therefore doesn't have the energy to sustain a consistent pace over 12 rounds.

I truly don't understand your analysis, as it goes against conventional wisdom for this matchup. Taylor wins a slugfest 9/10 times? Taylor's at his best when he fights patiently, using his jab to set up combinations. He doesn't get into slugfests often, and when he does he either gets his punches in and gets out, or ties up his opponent. For one, he knows he doesn't have the toughest chin in the world, and secondly, he knows he is good enough to win the fight without taking unnecessary damage from an all-out brawl.

Taylor's superior skill, combined with Froch's power and chin, are exactly the reasons that Froch would be best served by trying to draw Taylor into a toe-to-toe battle.

[littlerock]

Calling Pascal a "journyman" is a liberty. He may not be anything special but he's got talent.

Bute was virtually KO'd last time out. If Andrade can KO him Froch has to be given that chance too.

Taylor seems to be in decline since Hopkins. Froch, being naturally bigger, and i'd bet hungrier, would have a good chance of knocking the fight out of him.

The betting would be close if Froch faced either of those two. Wins either way wouldn't be surprising.

I don't think the betting would be all that close in either of those fights.

Notice you are giving Froch a "chance" to win against Bute and Taylor. That is hardly giving him odds or making him the obvious favorite. That is what most people are questioning Froch's fans for here; why in the world they would favor him over the top fighters in the division. Yes he has a chance to win, but the odds would be against it.

And I wouldn't get too confident about Froch's size advantage over Taylor. Taylor was a big middleweight at 6'0 or 6'1", making him bigger than Pascal as well. Froch is listed at 6'0" but I think he might be closer to 6'1". Taylor unofficially weighed in at 174 lbs on the day of the fight against Lacy.

[Fenster]

When I can tell by watching them that that's what they are, I do. Let's look back in five years and see what Jean Pascal's record looks like. It will be filled with losses to guys like Froch, Andre Dirrell, Andre Ward, etc if he sticks around the game that long.

Thus, when I see Froch matched against Pascal, though they both undefeated, I know that Pascal is nothing better than a journeyman-type, opponent-type fighter, and Froch, in spite of his pitiful opposition to date, has actual talent. The jury is still out on how high Froch will go, but time is running out on him.

You are pretty good judge of talent, Fenster. I give you credit for being able to tell the difference between a real prospect and a paper prospect by using your eyes. I know there are plenty of guys you have seen who are undefeated and young, but they are nothing more than average. Perhaps he's not a "journeyman" yet, but that's this future. If you rate Pascal any better, it's just because you love Froch and want this win to mean more than it does.

Me love Froch

On this site, ive been a critic of his from DAY ONE. Ive always predicted he would FAIL at the very top. And still do. Ive already stated Kessler will "slaughter" him and he'd start underdog against Bute, Taylor (slight) and be 50/50 with Bika and Andrade.

I give credit where it's due though. And have no problem admitting when i'm wrong.

Pascal was a decorated amatuer, unbeaten and ranked no.3 by the WBC. Considering Froch had never fought anyone above Brit/Euro level, Pascal was a leap in class for him - which he passed.

You're clearly a far harsher, more confident judge of unbeaten prospects than me. I'm more inclined to give someone the benefit of doubt.. ESPECIALLY before they've lost