Loma vs Pedraza, your thoughts?

[Fenster]

I wasn't being sarcastic, I think Loma's record Is fantastic.

I was answering the question you asked about the best fighters in the divisions.

I think he should have fought Berchelt and Corrales before moving up from 130. Walters and Sosa and Rigondeaux were not the best in the division. There was also Salido who I pointed out should have had wins over Martinez and Vargas and held a win over Loma. Even Davis was around (although Floyd wouldn't let that happen).

I wouldn't have had Linares in the P4P although I think he was the #1 lightweight with Garcia being at 140. Now that Garcia is back they both need that fight.

Was Russell Jr #1 at 126 when they fought? I doubt it, he hadn't beat anyone.

Salido did beat him. Mikey defeated Salido and also holds a win over Martinez, anther guy on Loma's record. I personally think Mikey's record is on par, if not better.

Salido, Zlaticanin, Broner, Lipnets and Easter also undefeated.

Vs

Russell Jr, Walters, Sosa, Rigo, Linares.

Just my opinion.

I never thought you was being sarcastic, I wasn't disputing anything you said, Berchelt would be a good matchup as would Tank.

MY OPINION is Loma fought better, much better fighters regardless of who was considered no.1 at the time he was involved in them.

And no way in a million years can I have Mikey's opposition as superior. How many of his victims are probable HOFamers? Loma has two probables already in Linares and Rigo and Russell Jr hasn't lost since Loma schooled him. Plus you have to take the number of fights and career timespan into account.

Garcia has been a pro 12 years with 39 fights.
Loma has been a pro for 4 years with 12 fights.

But again, it's just my opinion

[Fenster]

Easy win for Loma but it makes sense if he was going to face Beltran.

Who are the "best" fighters Loma has swerved in each division? His record is completely and utterly brilliant for someone with a dozen fights.

Can you say anything without painting a dishonest picture? I didn’t say a word about him swerving anyone. I said he didn’t fight the best. Gary Russell in a vacant fight, not best. Moved up and Roman Martinez, not best. Moved up and Jorge Linares, not best. See, if you don’t change what I said it’s true.

I want to see the guy fight the best because he’s that good

Can you read anything I write without thinking it's about you? Did I quote you?

I asked a general question for anyone on the forum, that's how this place works, everyone is welcome to offer their thoughts, everyone has a right to ask questions and question the statements of other members. Okay? So back to the topic

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Who was no.1 at featherweight when Loma beat Russell? Walters? Donaire? Salido? Selby?

At superfeather it was apparently Corrales? Uchiyama? At lightweight who said Garcia is above Linares?

What ratings are you using? What publication? All I can see is Loma beat/fought better guys than anyone mentioned barring Garcia.

[Alpha]

Here's a little bit on Garcia's record, we can go back and forth and pick each guys record apart, but there's no need (we all know the arguments). They are both great, both P4P, the only way to settle it is to fight.

Mikey fought (and beat) a better version of Salido than Loma faced, he was on a 5 fight win streak that included 2 of his best wins. He was also ranked #1 by The Ring. It was also for The Ring title. Salido also defeated Loma a year later.

The version of Martinez that Loma faced was coming off 2 tough bouts with Salido, and had been stopped in 8, 4 fights (and 2 and a half years) prior by Mikey. I don't really count this fight when comparing their records as both defeated Martinez.

Zlaticanin the WBC lightweight champion was arguably the #2 guy at 135 when Mikey fought him, only behind Linares and had solid wins over Petrov, Burns, and an unbeaten at the time Redkach. Interestingly Linares was supposed to defend against Zlaticanin, but had to pull out due to injury. He was named champion in recess and could have fought for the title once he had returned from injury. Zlaticanin had picked up the vacant WBC title in the interim, Linares chose a different route (the WBA title).

Most of us considered Broner the #1 lightweight before he moved to 147. He was already a 4 division title holder when Mikey fought him and was unbeaten at 140 heading in (Garcia is the only man to beat him at 140).

Lipnets was the undefeated IBF 140 pound beltholder, and although some publications had him ranked quite high (TBRB had him #2 I think), he was more realistically in the bottom half of the top 10 at 140. But fighting an unbeaten champion at a higher weight class in only your 2nd fight at the weight is more prestigious than a routine defense.

Robert Easter was the unbeaten IBF lightweight champion heading in and had fight solid opposition in Mendez, Commey, Shafikov, and Fortuna. Garcia dominated to win only the 10th lightweight title unification fight in history and first since 2009.

Garcia won titles in 4 weight divisions in a stretch of 8 fights. Loma has a stretch of 10 fights to win 3 titles in 3 divisions.

Garcia winning titles at 126, 130, 135 and 140 pounds puts him in a group that includes Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez as the only fighters to win titles in those weight classes.

[Fenster]

Nice write up, however, I don't even think they're the best names Garcia has faced. Juan Manuel Lopez has better credentials than most on that list and possibly Burgos (but that is nitpicking). I'm far more impressed by the caliber of opposition over alphabet titles. For instance, Ricky Burns is a three weight "world" champion and Julius Indongo was a unified champion, neither are going anywhere near the boxing hall of fame, neither have ever been close to top 10 P4P rated.

Incidentally I googled the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board (which was quoted). They currently have Loma no.1 P4P and at 135.

P4P
1 Vasyl Lomachenko UKR 11-1-0 (9) Lightweight
2 Terence Crawford USA 33-0-0 (24) Welterweight
3 Srisaket Sor Rungvisai * THA 46-4-1 (41) Jr. Bantamweight
4 Oleksandr Usyk * UKR 14-0-0 (11) Cruiserweight
5 Mikey Garcia * USA 39-0-0 (30) Lightweight/ Jr. Welterweight
6 Naoya Inoue JPN 16-0-0 (14) Bantamweight
7 Gennady Golovkin KAZ 38-0-1 (34) Middleweight
8 Leo Santa Cruz USA 35-1-1- (19) Featherweight
9 Errol Spence Jr. USA 24-0-0 (21) Welterweight
10 Anthony Joshua ENG 21-0-0 (20) Heavyweight


Lightweight
1 Vasyl Lomachenko 11-1-0 (9)
2 Mikey Garcia 39-0-0 (30)
3 Jorge Linares 44-4-0 (27)
4 Raymundo Beltran 35-8-1 (21)
5 Robert Easter Jr. 21-1-0 (14)
6 Richard Commey 27-2-0 (24)
7 Anthony Crolla 33-6-3 (13)
8 Luke Campbell 18-2-0 (15)
9 Yvan Mendy 40-4-1 (19)
10 Roberto Ramirez 18-2-1 (13)[/B]

[Alpha]

Personally I think the TBRB ratings are a very poor, and I don't put much stock in P4P lists.

Like I said we could through each guys record and pull each apart.

The biggest things for me are, Rigo may be a HOFer but not for anything he has done at 130, which was 2 weights above 122.

Linares is a question mark, he had already been lost 3 times by ko prior to Loma, 2 to much lower competition and you could argue he had been playing it safe with opposition since the Thompson loss. You could argue he avoided Zlaticanin, who Mikey fought in his 2nd fight back. If you think Linares is a probable HOFer, then I think you could say Broner and Salido could probably be as well.

Then the big one, Loma lost to a guy Mikey pretty much dominated.

I stand by my original state that Mike's record is on par, if not better than Loma's, but again it's just my opinion.

[Fenster]

You used TBRB ratings to highlight Lipinets worth, now you're saying their ratings are worthless? Fair enough, I was just using the source you provided.

I don't see Loma's razor-thin loss, in his 2nd pro fight and first go at 12 rounds as a negative, I believe it only highlights the superior level he has operated at.

You're argument is ("the big one") - Mikey's record is boosted by his win over Salido who beat Loma. Well if that's the case you can argue everyone who has beat Salido is better than Loma. Salido has lost a dozen or so times.

My point is - Loma has beat better fighters than Salido, much better. I don't need excuses or explanations, quite simply Rigo, Linares and Walters are superior opposition to Salido, who is nothing more than Roman Martinez level, a man Loma subsequently annihilated after Martinez beat Salido.

Mikey is a great fighter without a standout/signature win, hence he doesn't currently top any reputable P4P raankings after winning four titles in four divisions and going 40 fights unbeaten.

[Alpha]

You used TBRB ratings to highlight Lipinets worth, now you're saying their ratings are worthless? Fair enough, I was just using the source you provided.

I don't see Loma's razor-thin loss, in his 2nd pro fight and first go at 12 rounds as a negative, I believe it only highlights the superior level he has operated at.

You're argument is ("the big one") - Mikey's record is boosted by his win over Salido who beat Loma. Well if that's the case you can argue everyone who has beat Salido is better than Loma. Salido has lost a dozen or so times.

My point is - Loma has beat better fighters than Salido, much better. I don't need excuses or explanations, quite simply Rigo, Linares and Walters are superior opposition to Salido, who is nothing more than Roman Martinez level, a man Loma subsequently annihilated after Martinez beat Salido.

Mikey is a great fighter without a standout/signature win, hence he doesn't currently top any reputable P4P raankings after winning four titles in four divisions and going 40 fights unbeaten.

I said some publications had Lipnets rated highly and used the TBRB as an example as I think they had him #2. I said I thought he was bottom half of the top 10 at 140. I don't think much of their ratings.

Salido was #1 at feather when Mikey fought him.

And what I mean by 'the big one' is that Loma lost.

If Loma had fought Rigo at 126 it may have counted for more in my eyes.

Linares had already been blown out and had been playing it safe with his opposition.

I don't really pay P4P much mind, as I said, it's too subjective. I never said Mikey was #1 P4P. There are probably 5/6 guys at the moment that you could make an argument for the #1 spot.

[TitoFan]

If Loma had fought Rigo at 126 it may have counted for more in my eyes.

I think most boxing fans feel as you do. Even Loma himself recognized "This is not his weight, so it's not a big win for me." The buildup to the fight was huge, what with two two-time Olympic gold medal winners facing off. RJJ himself was quoted as hyperbolizing..... "To me, on paper, this is the best professional fight that has ever been made." Obviously, with that kind of pre-fight hype, Loma fans can be forgiven for latching onto that fight in their Loma arguments. But the truth is that Rigo jumped two weight divisions to fight Loma after having fought at super bantam his entire pro career. Can't really blame him, since guys in his own division wanted nothing to do with him. Think of Kell Brook, who foolishly jumped two divisions to fight GGG. We all know how that ended. Not considered a big win in GGG's ledger, either.

[TitoFan]

TBH, Loma's win over Walters was a bit more impressive, although Walters totally dismayed his fans by quitting, and hasn't been heard of since. Doesn't sound like his head was really into boxing.

[Master]

TBH, Loma's win over Walters was a bit more impressive, although Walters totally dismayed his fans by quitting, and hasn't been heard of since. Doesn't sound like his head was really into boxing.

I had high hopes for Nicholas Walters but definitely gone off the rails. Still an impressive win for Loma.

[Alpha]

TBH, Loma's win over Walters was a bit more impressive, although Walters totally dismayed his fans by quitting, and hasn't been heard of since. Doesn't sound like his head was really into boxing.

I had high hopes for Nicholas Walters but definitely gone off the rails. Still an impressive win for Loma.

I like the Walters win but it is deceptive, his best wins were arguably Donaire and Darchinyan, what had either guy really done at 126? Walters hadn't done anything at 130.

[Master]

TBH, Loma's win over Walters was a bit more impressive, although Walters totally dismayed his fans by quitting, and hasn't been heard of since. Doesn't sound like his head was really into boxing.

I had high hopes for Nicholas Walters but definitely gone off the rails. Still an impressive win for Loma.

I like the Walters win but it is deceptive, his best wins were arguably Donaire and Darchinyan, what had either guy really done at 126? Walters hadn't done anything at 130.

Nicholas Walters is the only man to stop Donaire and that is some feat.

[Spicoli]

With benefit of hindsight and even though I liked Walters I think the fact he's done absolutely nothing after his lone loss says something about how 'good' he may have been in actuality. He peaked and crashed in about 2 yrs time. Good win for Loma no doubt but on his record I'd rank Russell higher. What we're realizing is that you cannot have a Loma discussion without Garcia, and vice versa. A guys record can be picked apart but it has to come down to quality of opponent case by case for me not so much where they were ranked. Also saw mention of Linares and he imo has to be foremost on Lomas record. Sure he may have been sparked earlier in career but wasn't he more than willing and ready to go with Mikey prior to Loma but it was Mikey who opted to settle on a 4th division trinket rather than a substantive division threat. If he's quality enough for Mikey to think about he's certainly quality enough for Loma to share a ring with.

[powerpuncher]

I think that Russell Jr is Loma’s best win. Russell is a good fighter who just isn’t as rated because of his inactivity. He is a very good fighter and Loma comfortably won the fight. No excuses whatsoever.

[Violent Demise]

What do you think?

Lomachenko embarrasses Pedraza.