Lucian Bute

[HattonTheHammer]

A hell of a lot of better 168 pounders out there right now. The division is one of the strongest in the sport right now

kessler, abraham, froch, ward, dirrell and pascal all take bute if you ask me

[Nameless]

I am not sure how I feel about Bute. He gets knocked out by Andarde, then avenges the loss with a knockout(without Marlin Wright in his corner).

Now it looks like HBO is setting him up for a fight with Kelly Pavlik.

I think The Ring is out of line, by rating him #1 Super middle in the world.

Bute totally dominated the first bout with Andrade, not losing one single round except for the 12th where he wanted to go all tank to please the crowd and got saved by the last bell. Except that mistake, he has taken the best punches with ease, he has solid chin and has the very first man to knock the Andrade war machine out, exploit even KEssler hasn't been able to do. HE has much chance against anybody in the super six, not saying he would win automatically but he defo has his fair chances against them all.

Sorry mate, but that just isn't true. It's one of the great myths of that fight now that Bute won every round. One judge had Bute winning 10 of 12, the other two (including the Canadian judge) had him winnning 8 of 12. You're not going to try and tell me the judges were biased for Andrade on an InterBox show in Montreal are you??

I go with ICB there, I did look at this fight countless time and beside one round, perhaps 2 if I am very generous (including the 12th), I objectively don't see which ones Andrade could have possibly won. Can you really tell me that you've really seen Andrade winning 4 rounds in this fight? He got battered all fight long till the 12th where he almost got the k.o (that's the part where we do disagree if I recall ).

[Nameless]

A hell of a lot of better 168 pounders out there right now. The division is one of the strongest in the sport right now

kessler, abraham, froch, ward, dirrell and pascal all take bute if you ask me

Ward perhaps, Dirrell, Froch are getting mashed (in my opinion) so should Abraham if he doesn't get that big one punch knock flush on the button. Hopefully these are fights we'll see in a close future.

[JazMerkin]

Bute totally dominated the first bout with Andrade, not losing one single round except for the 12th where he wanted to go all tank to please the crowd and got saved by the last bell. Except that mistake, he has taken the best punches with ease, he has solid chin and has the very first man to knock the Andrade war machine out, exploit even KEssler hasn't been able to do. HE has much chance against anybody in the super six, not saying he would win automatically but he defo has his fair chances against them all.

Sorry mate, but that just isn't true. It's one of the great myths of that fight now that Bute won every round. One judge had Bute winning 10 of 12, the other two (including the Canadian judge) had him winnning 8 of 12. You're not going to try and tell me the judges were biased for Andrade on an InterBox show in Montreal are you??

I go with ICB there, I did look at this fight countless time and beside one round, perhaps 2 if I am very generous (including the 12th), I objectively don't see which ones Andrade could have possibly won. Can you really tell me that you've really seen Andrade winning 4 rounds in this fight? He got battered all fight long till the 12th where he almost got the k.o (that's the part where we do disagree if I recall ).

I've watched it and I see three rounds for him, although I could give him four. But, are you honestly going to say the judges were biased against Bute? He most certainly didn't win every round, that's one of those myths that comes with the fight not being fresh. It's like the 'Shane battered Margarito for the whole 9 rounds', when Margarito actually probably won the 5th round.

[ICB]

A hell of a lot of better 168 pounders out there right now. The division is one of the strongest in the sport right now

kessler, abraham, froch, ward, dirrell and pascal all take bute if you ask me

Lucian Bute would stop Carl Froch, beat Arthur Abraham over 12 rounds. He would also stop Andre Dirrell IMO, Jean Pascal is a toss up, because he keeps improving. But he's a Light Heavyweight not a Super Middleweight.

Mikkel Kessler is a toss up aswell, it all depends how much he has left. And im still not completely sold on Andre Ward either, he has been down and hurt before, and it may of been just a good style match up for Andre Ward, aswell as some well delivered headbutts.

[CFH]

Bute totally dominated the first bout with Andrade, not losing one single round except for the 12th where he wanted to go all tank to please the crowd and got saved by the last bell. Except that mistake, he has taken the best punches with ease, he has solid chin and has the very first man to knock the Andrade war machine out, exploit even KEssler hasn't been able to do. HE has much chance against anybody in the super six, not saying he would win automatically but he defo has his fair chances against them all.

Sorry mate, but that just isn't true. It's one of the great myths of that fight now that Bute won every round. One judge had Bute winning 10 of 12, the other two (including the Canadian judge) had him winnning 8 of 12. You're not going to try and tell me the judges were biased for Andrade on an InterBox show in Montreal are you??

Well i don't know what fight those judge were watching, who had Librado Andrade winning 4 rounds. Because there was only one round debatable, up until the 12th round.

I don't care what the judges had it, lets ask the people here, did anyone on here. Have Librado Andrade winning 4 rounds ? or anyone on forum for that matter ?

Because i saw Librado Andrade getting mostly dominated for 11 rounds, not in the league of Lacy vs Calzaghe or ETC. But it was pretty one sided Librado Andrade couldn't get anything going for 11 rounds IMO, except for one round which i might of scored for Librado Andrade, when he got in close but i can't remember what round that was.

I was cheering for Andrade and I think I had given him 2 rounds before the 12th.

[Nameless]

Sorry mate, but that just isn't true. It's one of the great myths of that fight now that Bute won every round. One judge had Bute winning 10 of 12, the other two (including the Canadian judge) had him winnning 8 of 12. You're not going to try and tell me the judges were biased for Andrade on an InterBox show in Montreal are you??

Well i don't know what fight those judge were watching, who had Librado Andrade winning 4 rounds. Because there was only one round debatable, up until the 12th round.

I don't care what the judges had it, lets ask the people here, did anyone on here. Have Librado Andrade winning 4 rounds ? or anyone on forum for that matter ?

Because i saw Librado Andrade getting mostly dominated for 11 rounds, not in the league of Lacy vs Calzaghe or ETC. But it was pretty one sided Librado Andrade couldn't get anything going for 11 rounds IMO, except for one round which i might of scored for Librado Andrade, when he got in close but i can't remember what round that was.

I was cheering for Andrade and I think I had given him 2 rounds before the 12th.

And that's generous, Jaz Merkin is just a grumpy young man

[JazMerkin]

Well i don't know what fight those judge were watching, who had Librado Andrade winning 4 rounds. Because there was only one round debatable, up until the 12th round.

I don't care what the judges had it, lets ask the people here, did anyone on here. Have Librado Andrade winning 4 rounds ? or anyone on forum for that matter ?

Because i saw Librado Andrade getting mostly dominated for 11 rounds, not in the league of Lacy vs Calzaghe or ETC. But it was pretty one sided Librado Andrade couldn't get anything going for 11 rounds IMO, except for one round which i might of scored for Librado Andrade, when he got in close but i can't remember what round that was.

I was cheering for Andrade and I think I had given him 2 rounds before the 12th.

And that's generous, Jaz Merkin is just a grumpy young man

So that means that CFH had it scored the same as me. We can't all be Bute fanboys Nameless

[ICB]

Sorry mate, but that just isn't true. It's one of the great myths of that fight now that Bute won every round. One judge had Bute winning 10 of 12, the other two (including the Canadian judge) had him winnning 8 of 12. You're not going to try and tell me the judges were biased for Andrade on an InterBox show in Montreal are you??

I go with ICB there, I did look at this fight countless time and beside one round, perhaps 2 if I am very generous (including the 12th), I objectively don't see which ones Andrade could have possibly won. Can you really tell me that you've really seen Andrade winning 4 rounds in this fight? He got battered all fight long till the 12th where he almost got the k.o (that's the part where we do disagree if I recall ).

I've watched it and I see three rounds for him, although I could give him four. But, are you honestly going to say the judges were biased against Bute? He most certainly didn't win every round, that's one of those myths that comes with the fight not being fresh. It's like the 'Shane battered Margarito for the whole 9 rounds', when Margarito actually probably won the 5th round.

So just because Antonio Margarito, may have won one round. That makes it not a complete wipeout ? unless im reading that wrong ?

IMO Shane Mosley did totally dominate Antonio Margarito. He let his foot off the gas in one round, but again Antonio Margarito's punches were very ineffective.

He did batter Antonio Margarito for pretty much the whole fight, and even in the one debatable round. Shane Mosley still stung Antonio Margarito, and landed the much better punches.

I'll tell you a fight that was seriously overrated, to regards of another fighter suposedly dominating another fighter. And thats James Toney vs Michael Nunn.

Michael Nunn won the early rounds, but James Toney was coming on late. And he had won 3 rounds in a row, aswell as winning the 11th round. Before he even KO'ed Michael Nunn in the 11th round.

Everyone makes out it was some kind of lucky punch, from James Toney when it clearly wasn't. It was James Toney wearing him down late.

[JazMerkin]

Aside from the old Andrade/Bute debate, I think Bute beats all the 168lbers with ease apart from Ward, Dirrell & Abraham. He might beat those guys, but I'd fancy Ward & Dirrell to narrowly outpoint him & Abraham's power means it's always a 50/50 fight regardless of how good your chin is & Bute's is pretty good.

[ICB]

Aside from the old Andrade/Bute debate, I think Bute beats all the 168lbers with ease apart from Ward, Dirrell & Abraham. He might beat those guys, but I'd fancy Ward & Dirrell to narrowly outpoint him & Abraham's power means it's always a 50/50 fight regardless of how good your chin is & Bute's is pretty good.

I think Andre Dirrell is quite fragile, he's been hurt in previous fights. And Lucian Bute does hit pretty hard, i think he would stop Andre Dirrell. And im quite confident in that prediction aswell.

As i said above im not completely sold on Andre Ward, his chin has been less than solid in the past. And he did have things going his way vs Mikkel Kessler, with the headbutts and ETC.

Plus it might of been just a perfect style match up, or maybe Andre Ward really is the real deal. We'll have to wait and see i guess.

[JazMerkin]

I go with ICB there, I did look at this fight countless time and beside one round, perhaps 2 if I am very generous (including the 12th), I objectively don't see which ones Andrade could have possibly won. Can you really tell me that you've really seen Andrade winning 4 rounds in this fight? He got battered all fight long till the 12th where he almost got the k.o (that's the part where we do disagree if I recall ).

I've watched it and I see three rounds for him, although I could give him four. But, are you honestly going to say the judges were biased against Bute? He most certainly didn't win every round, that's one of those myths that comes with the fight not being fresh. It's like the 'Shane battered Margarito for the whole 9 rounds', when Margarito actually probably won the 5th round.

So just because Antonio Margarito, may have won one round. That makes it not a complete wipeout ? unless im reading that wrong ?

IMO Shane Mosley did totally dominate Antonio Margarito. He let his foot off the gas in one round, but again Antonio Margarito's punches were very ineffective.

He did batter Antonio Margarito for pretty much the whole fight, and even in the one debatable round. Shane Mosley still stung Antonio Margarito, and landed the much better punches.

I'll tell you a fight that was seriously overrated, to regards of another fighter suposedly dominating another fighter. And thats James Toney vs Michael Nunn.

Michael Nunn won the early rounds, but James Toney was coming on late. And he had won 3 rounds in a row, aswell as winning the 11th round. Before he even KO'ed Michael Nunn in the 11th round.

Everyone makes out it was some kind of lucky punch, from James Toney when it clearly wasn't. It was James Toney wearing him down late.

You don't half get worked up Ice

If Margarito won one round, that means Shane didn't dominate THE WHOLE 9 round. I'm a big Shane fan, but whilst it was a dominating performance, he did not dominate the whole fight. Read what I wrote and tell me what disputes that statement. Did I say 'Margarito won loads of rounds & it was a close fight'?

I'm not going to even bother with the Toney fight, because whilst I do think that Toney had been coming on, having a debate with you about Toney is like trying to headbutt a brick wall. I agree to an extent, but Nunn had still won probably 8 of the 10 preceding rounds.

[ICB]

I've watched it and I see three rounds for him, although I could give him four. But, are you honestly going to say the judges were biased against Bute? He most certainly didn't win every round, that's one of those myths that comes with the fight not being fresh. It's like the 'Shane battered Margarito for the whole 9 rounds', when Margarito actually probably won the 5th round.

So just because Antonio Margarito, may have won one round. That makes it not a complete wipeout ? unless im reading that wrong ?

IMO Shane Mosley did totally dominate Antonio Margarito. He let his foot off the gas in one round, but again Antonio Margarito's punches were very ineffective.

He did batter Antonio Margarito for pretty much the whole fight, and even in the one debatable round. Shane Mosley still stung Antonio Margarito, and landed the much better punches.

I'll tell you a fight that was seriously overrated, to regards of another fighter suposedly dominating another fighter. And thats James Toney vs Michael Nunn.

Michael Nunn won the early rounds, but James Toney was coming on late. And he had won 3 rounds in a row, aswell as winning the 11th round. Before he even KO'ed Michael Nunn in the 11th round.

Everyone makes out it was some kind of lucky punch, from James Toney when it clearly wasn't. It was James Toney wearing him down late.

You don't half get worked up Ice

If Margarito won one round, that means Shane didn't dominate THE WHOLE 9 round. I'm a big Shane fan, but whilst it was a dominating performance, he did not dominate the whole fight. Read what I wrote and tell me what disputes that statement. Did I say 'Margarito won loads of rounds & it was a close fight'?

I'm not going to even bother with the Toney fight, because whilst I do think that Toney had been coming on, having a debate with you about Toney is like trying to headbutt a brick wall. I agree to an extent, but Nunn had still won probably 8 of the 10 preceding rounds.

Well thats why i did say "unless im reading that wrong". Im not getting worked up at all, i just wanted to know what you exactly meant. Which is fine you explained yourself and thats cool.

As for James Toney why do you think im biased, when it comes to James Toney ? just because in one thread where i said i thought he had all the attributes ?

Yes i do think he had all the attributes. Speed, Power, Defense, Chin, ETC. It's just sometimes he didn't take fights that seriously, which cost him at times.

But at his best he is a complete fighter, and yes i do truly believe that. But thats not to say i think he's unbeatable, he can be beat by movers and ETC.

And plus i do think he got some gifts, especially from Dave Tiberi. But he also did get shafted a few times himself aka Montel Griffin.

Lastly as for the Michael Nunn fight, i feel Michael Nunn threw alot of pitty patt punches. And James Toney was able to take risks late on, walkthrough those punches and come on late.

Its clear as day Michael Nunn was fading, because he had lost the 3 previous rounds. I think James Toney could of still pulled out a draw had it of gone the distance, i had him 6-4 down going into the 11th round.

[Nameless]

I was cheering for Andrade and I think I had given him 2 rounds before the 12th.

And that's generous, Jaz Merkin is just a grumpy young man

So that means that CFH had it scored the same as me. We can't all be Bute fanboys Nameless

No, you're both Andrade fan boy, admitted by both account But back to seriousness, I wouldn't mind if Bute lost 2-3 or 4 rounds, wouldn't make much difference to me as all 3 results mean a clean and more than convincing victory and as objective as I can be (assuming we can never be 100%), I do not give him nothing more than 2 including the 12th.
As for the judges, I would say that strange verdicts happen everywhere, why? I dunno, they didn't see the fight the same way or perhaps that the fact that there is a huge rivalry between Interbox and Gym did plays a bit of role, especially considering that the Grant brothers are hugely popular here and because they work with GYM which is the promotion powerhouse in Quebec at the moment (mainly because of the great influence of Yvon Michel, rated as one of the top 25 most important boxing figure on the scene at the moment). Not saying that it is the reason of the verdict but it realistically could have played a small role.

[JazMerkin]

Well thats why i did say "unless i read that wrong". Im not getting worked up at all, i just wanted to know what you exactly meant.

As for James Toney why do you think im biased, when it comes to James Toney ? just because in one thread where i thought he had all the attributes ?

Yes i do think he had all the attributes. Speed, Power, Defense, Chin, ETC. It's just sometimes he didn't take fights that seriously, which cost him at times.

But at his best he is a complete fighter, and yes i do truly believe that. But thats not to say i think he's unbeatable, he can be beat by movers and ETC.

And plus i do think he got some gifts, especially from Dave Tiberi. But he also did get shafted a few times himself aka Montel Griffin.

Lastly as for the Michael Nunn fight, i feel Michael Nunn threw alot of pitty patt punches. And James Toney was able to take risks late on, walkthrough those punches and come on late.

Its clear as day Michael Nunn was fading, because he had lost the 3 previous rounds. I think James Toney could of still pulled out a draw, i had him 6-4 down going into the 11th round.

Mate, with all due respect, there's certain fighters that everyone knows it's not worth getting into a debate about with you because you like them and that's cool, not saying there's anything wrong with that.

I, and most people, feel Nunn had that fight sewn up if he'd stayed on his feet & that would of been the case on the cards too.

There's no point having a debate about James Toney on a Lucian Bute thread.