Muhammad ALI (60's and 70's ali) vs larry holmes

[undefeated]

both self proclaimed the greatest--ali i belive has alot more right 4 that claim

60's --ali-by ud or ko14
70's--ali-by-ud

60's ali would dance around while holmes chases him-ali would land some vicious combos on holmes maybe even tko him-

70's ali would take alot more hits, no chance of a ko--larry has a good chin--this would b a war--but ali would win by close decison

yes im biast--sorry holmes u aint the greatest

[TheBESTP4P]

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE! ALI would humilate Holmes in both cases. ALI was the master and Holmes was the apprentice literally man.

Holmes was good and you gotta give him his, but EVERYONE knows Holmes fought a shot, not himself version of ALI. A prime ALI would humiliate Holmes and you can take that to the bank my friend!

[landmine950]

Well, interesting comments. Generally speaking you simply can't compare older athletes with newer. A world class 100 meter sprinter in 1940 wouldnt make a high school team in the 90's the times tell the truth!. a football lineman in 1950 weighed 240 pounds IF HE WAS A BIG ONE!! now they are 340 pounds and O linemen up to 400 lbs the old super duper star couldnt make any nfl team now!! Any sport with a quantatative measurement, ie a time, makes the point clear. Try weightlifting for example, Old benchpress records or 600 lbs are now up to 900 lbs!!! Put Ali in a time machine and bring him in his prime to the year 2007 he wouldnt make the top 10. Same thing if you bring him ahead 15 years to fight Holmes....i dont think it would be a contest. Now, if you had them all born and raised at the same time..same training, nutrition etc......a whole new discussion..

[TheBESTP4P]

Well, interesting comments. Generally speaking you simply can't compare older athletes with newer. A world class 100 meter sprinter in 1940 wouldnt make a high school team in the 90's the times tell the truth!. a football lineman in 1950 weighed 240 pounds IF HE WAS A BIG ONE!! now they are 340 pounds and O linemen up to 400 lbs the old super duper star couldnt make any nfl team now!! Any sport with a quantatative measurement, ie a time, makes the point clear. Try weightlifting for example, Old benchpress records or 600 lbs are now up to 900 lbs!!! Put Ali in a time machine and bring him in his prime to the year 2007 he wouldnt make the top 10. Same thing if you bring him ahead 15 years to fight Holmes....i dont think it would be a contest. Now, if you had them all born and raised at the same time..same training, nutrition etc......a whole new discussion..

WHOA that was rather wrong actually cause ALI, Holmes, would both mop all the sorry bastards who call themselves HW contenders today. had they been put in a time machine as u say hahaha

[gyrokai]

Time Machine, this is f*ckin' hilarious!

First thing's first Rachman could never beat Ali!

Well...... thats all you need to say!



Well I'm patient so I'll give a better answer...

Boxing is ART. You get me? You probably don't, but go in the ring and find out yourself! haha
Or watch and learn from the fights of today.

Alright, once you learned that and have accepted that.

Lets think of this problem again.
Science is about quantifying right? Bench press numbers, weight, blah blah? Right?

Then how can you quantify ART? Can you narrow down a Mozart performance by a number? Or how about Michelangelo painting? YOU CAN'T!!!

Art is amazing, it's one of those things in life where you can't scientifically quantify it, but YOU KNOW it's Great.

Saying Ali would lose to today's HW's,
is like comparing the Great Miles Davis to R Kelly! hahaha

[gyrokai]

Time Machine, this is f*ckin' hilarious!

First thing's first Rachman could never beat Ali!

Well...... thats all you need to say!



Well I'm patient so I'll give a better answer...

Boxing is ART. You get me? You probably don't, but go in the ring and find out yourself! haha
Or watch and learn from the fights of today.

Alright, once you learned that and have accepted that.

Lets think of this problem again.
Science is about quantifying right? Bench press numbers, weight, blah blah? Right?

Then how can you quantify ART? Can you narrow down a Mozart performance by a number? Or how about Michelangelo painting? YOU CAN'T!!!

Art is amazing, it's one of those things in life where you can't scientifically quantify it, but YOU KNOW it's Great.

Saying Ali would lose to today's HW's,
is like comparing the Great Miles Davis to R Kelly! hahaha

I deserve CC's for that dissertation paper! haha

[ICB]

firstly ali would never beat holmes easy remember holmes getting better of ali at sparring in rumble in jungle ?? holmes fights bit similar to ali he can do rope a dope tactic like he can dance on his toes like him and hes jab is better than his so im going take 15 round sd for .... holmes

[ICB]

both self proclaimed the greatest--ali i belive has alot more right 4 that claim

60's --ali-by ud or ko14
70's--ali-by-ud

60's ali would dance around while holmes chases him-ali would land some vicious combos on holmes maybe even tko him-

70's ali would take alot more hits, no chance of a ko--larry has a good chin--this would b a war--but ali would win by close decison

yes im biast--sorry holmes u aint the greatest

id say no that far off being greatest all people will think ali but actually holmes was like young version of ali and he had better jab than him

[gyrokai]

Better Jab, so Holmes wins. hahaha You guys are talking like novices!

Silly Boxing Fans.

Everybody knows Ali shines when he's under the spotlight, being watched by MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD!!!

[ICB]

Better Jab, so Holmes wins. hahaha  You guys are talking like novices! 

Silly Boxing Fans.

Everybody knows Ali shines when he's under the spotlight, being watched by MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD!!!

umm no silly i was stating that he had better jab i didnt say he wins by having better jab im saying all of what ali can do holmes can do it aswell there pretty evenly matched theres not alot in it Everybody knows Ali shines when he's under the spotlight, being watched by MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD!!! and i dont see what that comment has got to do with anything and actually having better jab is good advantage because the jab is key weapon in boxing

[gyrokai]

Better Jab, so Holmes wins. hahaha You guys are talking like novices!

Silly Boxing Fans.

Everybody knows Ali shines when he's under the spotlight, being watched by MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD!!!

umm no silly i was stating that he had better jab i didnt say he wins by having better jab im saying all of what ali can do holmes can do it aswell there pretty evenly matched theres not alot in it Everybody knows Ali shines when he's under the spotlight, being watched by MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD!!! and i dont see what that comment has got to do with anything and actually having better jab is good advantage because the jab is key weapon in boxing

Exactly! You can't base it on just a "JAB."

Boxing is WAAAAYYYYY more than a great jab. It's everything!
No Holmes didn't dance as well as Ali did. Ring Generalship King, was Ali. Although people pay more attention to his speed, which he was faster than Holmes.

And Ali's jab was no sissy jab either! haha

Lets also consider Holmes' whiskers, although Ali never a power-puncher (Sonny fell on purpose), Ali had enough power to get respect, especially with his "classic right hand."

About the Ali shining while on spotlight, that was to counter the Holmes Rumble in the Jungle Gym sparring sessions. heheh Fights are TOTALLY different than sparring matches.

[The Promoter]

Well, interesting comments. Generally speaking you simply can't compare older athletes with newer. A world class 100 meter sprinter in 1940 wouldnt make a high school team in the 90's the times tell the truth!. a football lineman in 1950 weighed 240 pounds IF HE WAS A BIG ONE!! now they are 340 pounds and O linemen up to 400 lbs the old super duper star couldnt make any nfl team now!! Any sport with a quantatative measurement, ie a time, makes the point clear. Try weightlifting for example, Old benchpress records or 600 lbs are now up to 900 lbs!!! Put Ali in a time machine and bring him in his prime to the year 2007 he wouldnt make the top 10. Same thing if you bring him ahead 15 years to fight Holmes....i dont think it would be a contest. Now, if you had them all born and raised at the same time..same training, nutrition etc......a whole new discussion..

How did boxing training change in the years that seperated Holmes and Ali?...how much better trained was Holmes than Ali?....do you realize that in Holmes early years he was a sparring partner for Ali?...While I'd enjoy pointing out that your argument for bigger is better of today is severely flawed, it really has no relavence for this topic, at all...

[ICB]

Better Jab, so Holmes wins. hahaha  You guys are talking like novices! 

Silly Boxing Fans.

Everybody knows Ali shines when he's under the spotlight, being watched by MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD!!!

umm no silly i was stating that he had better jab i didnt say he wins by having better jab im saying all of what ali can do holmes can do it aswell there pretty evenly matched theres not alot in it Everybody knows Ali shines when he's under the spotlight, being watched by MILLIONS AROUND THE WORLD!!! and i dont see what that comment has got to do with anything and actually having better jab is good advantage because the jab is key weapon in boxing

Exactly!  You can't base it on just a "JAB."   

Boxing is WAAAAYYYYY more than a great jab.  It's everything!
No Holmes didn't dance as well as Ali did.  Ring Generalship King, was Ali.  Although people pay more attention to his speed, which he was faster than Holmes.

And Ali's jab was no sissy jab either! haha 

Lets also consider Holmes' whiskers, although Ali never a power-puncher (Sonny fell on purpose), Ali had enough power to get respect, especially with his "classic right hand."

About the Ali shining while on spotlight, that was to counter the Holmes Rumble in the Jungle Gym sparring sessions. heheh  Fights are TOTALLY different than sparring matches.

he could dance very well when he had to holmes had some power aswell ask mike weaver marvis fraizer gerry cooney ect i know fights are different to sparring but i was just saying holmes was getting better of him in sparring yep ali had great jab but holmes jab was harder and sharper he actually knocked someone down with a jab actually there wasnt alot in speed department holmes had quick hands aswell look how fast his hands were in 1st shavers fight holmes had very good right hand himself

[gyrokai]

So what your saying is Holmes is a better version of Ali, because his Jab took him places Ali could only dream?

Holmes barely got past an old OLD Norton! (Just as some think Ali lost to Norton, ASLO some think Holmes lost too.)
Holmes was knocked on his *ss by Ernie Shavers. heh Old Ernie couldn't put Ali down, even in Ali's Late Late career with a hint of Parkinsons' in his voice! (That's not a joke either about the voice.)
Holmes fought competitively with Cooney! haha (Although he then found his rhythm again.)

[ICB]

So what your saying is Holmes is a better version of Ali, because his Jab took him places Ali could only dream?

Holmes barely got past an old OLD Norton!  (Just as some think Ali lost to Norton, ASLO some think Holmes lost too.)
Holmes was knocked on his *ss by Ernie Shavers. heh  Old Ernie couldn't put Ali down, even in Ali's Late Late career with a hint of Parkinsons' in his voice!  (That's not a joke either about the voice.)
Holmes fought competitively with Cooney! haha  (Although he then found his rhythm again.)

no im pointing out a fact that holmes had better jab than him and there wasnt much between them in any department he wasnt that old and alot of people think norton should beat ali twice because norton was robbed in 3rd fight and actually holmes won norton fight by 2 rounds shavers was devasting puncher he caught holmes with his best right hand im suprised holmes managed to get up after that norton fought his heart out in that fight with holmes prolly one of nortons best performances shavers couldnt put ali down but he had him wobbling and rocking alot in early rounds and alot of people thought shavers should of won against ali cooney wasnt bad fighter he was very strong man