Why Freddie Roache's top guys Pacquiao and Khan will always have problems against...

[Taeth]

Certain opponents.

I've watched a lot of his training, and he trains guys to excute a gameplan, but he doesn't teach them an overall knowledge of the sport. He's been with Pacquiao 10 years, and Manny still doesn't know how to move in on an opponent in any way besides launching himself forward. Sure this is useful sometimes, but it's the only way he knows how to get in if his opponent uses any lateral movement or keeps an honest distance with straight punches. He really needs to start watching guys like prime Tyson, Frazier, Duran, Chavez because for him to improve he, and to get over the Marquez hump he really needs to walk down his opponent. Southpaws have a perfect oppertunity to walk in if they have the outside foot and angle if they just throw their left hand to the body or the chest. If they fully step in and do that, it gets them into the perfect position, but Roach hasn't forced Pacquiao to learn really inside fighting like DUran used on Leonard or Chavez used to use. He just hops in and out or he trades and eats shots with basic head movement and no defense on the inside which is why Juan was beating him up when they traded shots. Amir Khan will also have a lot of trouble if a guy can avoid his punches because he also doesn't know how to fight on the inside, and once Maidana got past his fast flurries which a guy can only throw so many times because their in and out motion is so excessive and tiring, that they are completely defenseless behind their offense. A really good defensive fighter/ aggressive counter puncher while always have their number stylistically as long as the guy knows how to throw the right hand, because that's why JMM had so much more success against Manny then MAB and EM its because they don't have as deadly a right hand, they don't set their body up and commit to their attack the same way JMM needs to in order to land that cross with so much force. You kind of have to use MP and AK's medicine against them, but with more intelligence and more well rounded game plan.

[CutMeMick]

This is probably the 1st time I've ever agreed with you on something...

No but seriously, I agree which is why it puzzles me when I read people say things like "Pac has good defense" or "Pac has improved so much he's not the same Pac he was in _______ (fill in a previous year)"

I'm sorry but I just don't see it. I mean of course aside from the obvious.
But as a whole fighter and or his skill set. This Sat. proved that he can be countered the same way he could be countered in 04.
I see a boxer who's often off balance. He has good side to side waist movement and head movement he also had it in 04. He's fast on his feet but what about the rest of the body? His hands are wailing and his head is wide open. Which is why JMM was able to connect him with uppercuts and shots down the middle.

Something that I haven't read many comment on is the shots JMM lands to the body it is very impressive what he is able to land almost at will on Pac. I believe it's round 8 where JMM lands a menacing left hook to the ribs that makes Pac bend to side and try to cushion the shot. But throughout the fight his body attack was superb. Especially to Pacs right side ribs.

[Althugz]

Agreed Mick, was something I noticed as well from Marquez. The body attack was relentless and those shots were rib-crunching! I hate when judges don't score for body shots and it seems these ones didn't. His work to the body was real effective when Manny's head wasn't available or to set up the head attack afterwards.

2nd agreement is the, "he's a totally different fighter" argument. I see a minimal difference in the fighter. Maybe a little more powerful and better utilises his right hand. That's about it. Still a fighter very limited in intelligence.

[Rantcatrat]

Agreed Mick, was something I noticed as well from Marquez. The body attack was relentless and those shots were rib-crunching! I hate when judges don't score for body shots and it seems these ones didn't. His work to the body was real effective when Manny's head wasn't available or to set up the head attack afterwards.

2nd agreement is the, "he's a totally different fighter" argument. I see a minimal difference in the fighter. Maybe a little more powerful and better utilises his right hand. That's about it. Still a fighter very limited in intelligence.

You don't do what Pacquiao has done as a "very limited in intelligence" fighter. That's just a hater talking. Be honest. Marquez struggled mightily with Kastidis. Does that make him a "limited in intelligence" fighter? I'd rather struggle with Marquez any day of the week. Marquez is a future hof.

[Althugz]

Dude, how is that hating? He does what he does very well. Gets in and out with blazing fast, powerful combinations..but can he adapt? No. If he was a smart fighter he'd change his game up and show us he can win a different way..he can't. It is what it is...i didnt call him a "thick" fighter, he's still gre
at. Just one that has limited ring intelligence..so no, i aint hatin..you're huggin'

[captainanddew]

Pac doesn't listen to freddie during fights. Freddie was begging for him to go the body and to not walk the wrong way. But Pac did.

[imp]

Pac is a great fighter and definately is not slipping.

Just ask yourself this. If pac fought marquez straight after oscar would the hype have been what it is now?
Or even moseley?

Pac will always have major issues with smart counterpunching fighters. Freddie cant teach a panda to
F£&k..excuse the french.

[IamInuit]

Pac is a great fighter and definately is not slipping.

Just ask yourself this. If pac fought marquez straight after oscar would the hype have been what it is now?
Or even moseley?

Pac will always have major issues with smart counterpunching fighters. Freddie cant teach a panda to
F£&k..excuse the french.

Cant agree sir and the slip has been noticeable but I think its more mind then body but the body tends to follow. Even in the Bradley fight that I thought he won hands down he looked different and his indifference after the cards were read to the robbery sustains that. Most people picked Manny to annihilate him. His style/spiritual life/home/political etc has got to take its toll and manifest itself in the ring.

Fighters who fight like Manny has especially since the start of this run since MAB albeit losing Morales 1 do not have an extra long shelf life unless they are Henry Armstrong who after his death it was discovered had an oversized heart.

To be perfectly honest I don't think Manny even wants to fight anymore.