Creation vs Evolution

[Kev]

I thought this would be an interesting thread to start.

Personally having looked at the debate on and off for the past 10 years or so I have finally put myself in the creationist camp.

Not that I'm a churchgoer and don't have problems with some of what is written in the Bible, I do have problems with a lot of it.

It's just that examining closely the evidence for and against evolution has led me to conclude that it is simply not based on factual evidence and in fact is nothing more than an alternative religion, and based on faith as much as any other belief system.

That the universe must have been designed is what I believe but I'm interested to hear other people's views.

This could turn out to be an interesting thread and discussion I think.

I'll put up evidence's and such like later but for now I'll let everyone else discuss to get the ball rolling.

[AdamGB]

Oh god no! As if the 9/11 threads weren't enough :P

anotehr scurge of internet forums, the creation thread... :P

Seriously though, I was raised Christian but don't really even know what I beleive any more... I don't beleive that there is or isn't a god etc...

My religion is called Confusedianity.

[Kev]

Oh god no! As if the 9/11 threads weren't enough :P

anotehr scurge of internet forums, the creation thread... :P

Seriously though, I was raised Christian but don't really even know what I beleive any more... I don't beleive that there is or isn't a god etc...

My religion is called Confusedianity.

Personally I find it best to leave religion out of it completely and just examine the evidence.

I.e the fossil record, transistional fossils, gentetics etc, then it becomes an interesting topic.

For me it is never going to be proven how we got here, and ultimately it is a reliance for faith but after looking closely at the supposed evidences for evolution I have to say that they just arn't there.

[El Kabong]

OK here's my big problem with people who are sold on either

#1 No one was alive to know whether things evolved or it was the way the Bible said

#2 If everything evolved what did the first thing ever evolve from

So while I doubt the 100% literal translation of the Bible, I do think that we were created by something

[Kev]

OK here's my big problem with people who are sold on either

#1 No one was alive to know whether things evolved or it was the way the Bible said

#2 If everything evolved what did the first thing ever evolve from

So while I doubt the 100% literal translation of the Bible, I do think that we were created by something

I love your number 2 question!

So many people claim that evolution must be true because 'Where did God come from?', but I never thought to say to someone 'Well where did the first thing that evolved, evolve from?'

That's brillaint mate, basically the evolutions have exactly the same impossible beginning that people who believe in God do.

The only difference is that a creationist can point out that since God created the universe and exists outside of it then he is not bound by the same laws. i.e creating is what God does, it is an action of God and so obviously therefore he does not need to be created, he is the creator not part of creation.

Evolutionists however cannot invoke the supernatural or posit any kind of existence outside of the universe so their answer lies within the universe itself.

And it is a whole lot harder to suggest how the universe could have created itself than it is to say somebody or something outside of the universe created it.

for a great argument

[BoxingGorilla]

  I do not enjoy talking about this, but....


  If we evolved from apes why are their still apes wandering around?  Some of them said "I don't like were this is going" and decided not to change?

  Creation. Mos Def


And if they could just choose to "not evolve" then wouldn't there be some ape/man hybrids of every stage running about? How do you explain the different races? Asians have narrow eyes, right? If it was eveolution shouldn't the desert dwelling people have the narrow eyes? To keep the sand out. Seriously.

[luvfightgame]

Creation. Evolution is impossible.

I can't even take someone seriously if they defend evolution. To me you have to WANT to believe it.

There is tons of evidence against evolution and none for it, and people call it science. It is 100% a religious belief.

I hold a Biblical world view but that is a whole different topic. Creation is the only possibility.

[Kev]

Creation. Evolution is impossible.

I can't even take someone seriously if they defend evolution. To me you have to WANT to believe it.

There is tons of evidence against evolution and none for it, and people call it science. It is 100% a religious belief.

I hold a Biblical world view but that is a whole different topic. Creation is the only possibility.

Friend welcome to my world

I was expecting to be lampooned when I started this topic but it seems suprisingly that most people agree.

I studied evolution for years, purely because I wanted to learn about it and understand the evidence for it. It never occured to me at that time that God may have created the world and I certainly wasn't looking to believe in him.

I remember reading for about 6 months, book after book, trying to find actual documented evidence for it but all the time all I ever found was crappy statements that always started, Imagine this and Let's assume this and then we can understand how this could come to be type statements.

I started reading books on fossils and human evolution to find what the missing links were, only to find to my shock that there wern't any that anybody agreed upon, even the evolutionists.

Then I looked for transitional fossils in the animal kingdoms and found 1, the fabled archeopteryx, only to find that it was actually 100% a bird, fully capable of flight and not actually half dinosaur in the way I had always assumed. It had teeth, but only in the minds of an evolutionist can having teeth be proof of a reptilian ancestory.

A platypus has a beak but they don't think it evolved from ducks!

to you too boxingGorilla

[BoxingGorilla]

I agree with ya Bilbo about the platypus duck thing...

If it works why change it? Four fingers and a thumb was a brilliant idea so He used it a few times.

One more thing...

When I was young they used to say that humans did not need the pinky finger. I was told (in science class) that it would continue to grow smaller from lack of use and eventually baboes would be born without them. I'm 31 years old now and never seen a pinkiless baby that the doctors didn't call deformed. Seriously.

[Kev]

I agree with ya Bilbo about the platypus duck thing...

If it works why change it? Four fingers and a thumb was a brilliant idea so He used it a few times.

One more thing...

When I was young they used to say that humans did not need the pinky finger. I was told (in science class) that it would continue to grow smaller from lack of use and eventually baboes would be born without them. I'm 31 years old now and never seen a pinkiless baby that the doctors didn't call deformed. Seriously.

I remember my teacher trying to explain the evolution of ape fur into human hair.

I asked him seeing as human hair if left just gets ridiculously long whether or not the evolution of human head and facial hair coincided with the invention of scissors?

Can you just imagine all these little early humans running around with beards and hair down to their ankles. Every time they tried to light a fire they would kill everyone in the cave :P

[luvfightgame]

I have a similair background. I swallowed the evolution theory hook line and sinker for most of my life. I was seeking to disprove the creation theory, and suprise, the evolution story is ridiculous. I wasn't too happy with my findings at first, but now I understand that I was indoctrinated to learn that garbage.

There are so many evidences against it, but my favorite is "irreducable complexity". Basically that when you remove certain parts they cease to function all together. It really destroys the whole evolution theory. What good would a half functioning eye be? How about a half functioning digestive system?

The transitional species would die off without being able to reproduce, therefore completely halting "evolution".

The sad thing is people will angrily defend this nonsense idea, ignore all common sense, and label you as a bigot or fanatic for believing it. But once you see it you can never understand how anyone couldn't get it. Kind of like one of those illusion pictures they used to have in the mall, you had to stare at it for awhile, but once you saw it it was so easy, and your trying to show your buddy and no matter how you explain it, they don't see it...

[Kev]

I have a similair background. I swallowed the evolution theory hook line and sinker for most of my life. I was seeking to disprove the creation theory, and suprise, the evolution story is ridiculous. I wasn't too happy with my findings at first, but now I understand that I was indoctrinated to learn that garbage.

There are so many evidences against it, but my favorite is "irreducable complexity". Basically that when you remove certain parts they cease to function all together. It really destroys the whole evolution theory. What good would a half functioning eye be? How about a half functioning digestive system?

The transitional species would die off without being able to reproduce, therefore completely halting "evolution".

The sad thing is people will angrily defend this nonsense idea, ignore all common sense, and label you as a bigot or fanatic for believing it. But once you see it you can never understand how anyone couldn't get it. Kind of like one of those illusion pictures they used to have in the mall, you had to stare at it for awhile, but once you saw it it was so easy, and your trying to show your buddy and no matter how you explain it, they don't see it...

Great analogy, I agree completely.

What finally made me think the whole lot was crap was after reading Dawkins and his neo Darwin theories about tiny incremental changes, gradually occurring over hundreds of thousands of years that would lead to one organism developing into another.

Then I started reading Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldridge, two of the biggest evolutionary proponents in the US. Their theory of 'puncuated equilibriem' states that organisms don't change gradually over millions of years at all, but rather remain unchanged for aeons of time and then in some isolated population somewhere an organism will undergo extreme and rapid mutatations over just a few generations and a new organism will emerge.

They produced this theory to explain why there are no transitional ( in between) fossils in the fossil record at all. They argued (correctly) that gradual evolution was impossible as there is not a shred of evidence in the fossil record to support it, each creature emerges spontanously in the fossil record, complete and fully formed leaving no trace of any evolutionaryt ancestory.

Then the likes of Dawkins, who are experts in genetics, hit back and said (correctly) that no such rapid change could possibly occur within the genetic structure of an organism in such a small space of time. The processes of even a single cell are so complex that the amount of new informtation required in the genetic structure of an organism's DNA to recode new structures is immense and no satisfactory mechanism relying on chance and mutation alone could possibly account for it.

It's a little known fact in the world at large that these two evolutionary camps radically oppose each other arguing for the impossibility of the other's theory.

[X]

I created the earth, the skies and the Universe. All the creatures on the planet were created by me, though they have since evolved into different forms which are more pleasing to me.

[El Kabong]

I created the earth, the skies and the Universe. All the creatures on the planet were created by me, though they have since evolved into different forms which are more pleasing to me.

...and ya still can't get laid







sorry dude you set it up I had to

[X]

I created the earth, the skies and the Universe. All the creatures on the planet were created by me, though they have since evolved into different forms which are more pleasing to me.

...and ya still can't get laid







sorry dude you set it up I had to

It's true. Sadly all of my creations were an attempt to get laid, but once I granted consciousness, they all cut and run