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Thread: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

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    Default Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch






    By Ted Sares

    In a piece I did on July 25, 2006 entitled, "James Toney: Why He'll Defeat Samuel Peter," I ended it with the following paragraph:

    "I am feeling cocky (and maybe even foolhardy), but off my recent posted predictions of a draw between Taylor and Wright and a Baldomir win over Gatti by 9th round TKO, I'll go out on the limb and predict that Toney exposes Peter's lack of fundamentals and takes the crude but proud Nigerian to school. I see an semi-exhausted Toney winning by UD or MD."

    Well, I was wrong but not by all that much. This is what is what I think James Toney has to do to prevail in the rematch.

    Arguably, James Toney may have done enough to win the first fight. If so, one could reason he simply needs to put more intensity on the same fight plan to ensure a win in the rematch. But I believe he needs to adjust his approach more substantially based on Samuel Peter's surprising performance. Surprising in the sense his decision win was the least likely outcome expected.

    That said, these are the adjustments I believe "Lights Out" must make if he is to prevail over the Nigerian bomber.

    Toney, who needs to come in lower than 233 lbs, must not make the mistake of throwing hooks in the middle of the ring now that he knows Peter is a decent counter puncher off those hooks. In fact, Peter fought very well in the middle. Peter surprised with his grasp of fundamentals, but the element of surprise is no longer there. On the other hand, Toney surprised by his ability to take Peter's punches and that could be an advantage for Toney going in....though both have rock solid chins.

    This time, James needs to work his way inside "The Nightmare's" not-so-looping shots, and begin connecting with short hooks and sharp counter uppercuts until Samuel starts showing some respect. The operative word here is "inside," as that is something he does better than just about anyone out there. Peter already knows that Toney can throw strong overhand rights down the middle, so by working inside, Toney can maintain a two dimensional attack that could force Peter to become more cautious and tentative thus giving Toney an opportunity to take control.

    Toney, if he comes into the fight in better shape, say at around 225, should pick up the pace in the 4th or 5th round. And since he is now aware Peter can go 12 full rounds at 263 lbs, he will need to pace himself carefully. He also will need to avoid the quasi-rabbit punches for which Peter inexplicitly is never penalized but which can spell the beginning of the end for a Peter opponent and which stunned James on more than one occasion.

    Going down the stretch, Toney needs to be the one who initiates the action and, in particular, the combinations. He needs to orchestrate the situation so that the "Nightmare" is throwing one telegraphed punch at a time.....something Samuel did against Wladimir Klitschko but surprisingly did not do against James. As well, 'Lights Out" needs to dictate the action and expose Peter's suspected lack of fundamentals. But the problem is Peter's lack of basics was not nearly as bad as his critics thought, including me.

    In the rematch, James Toney needs to do what he does best. Use a great defense, fight closer in, assume a rhythm, put together crisp combinations and uppercuts, and fight from angles using shoulder rolls to deflect punches. In other words, pure old school boxing stuff. His task is a daunting one. And one thing is certain, while Peter may not walk through him as some predicted he would in the first fight, he (Peter) will be more confident going in. After all, he did win the first one, didn't he? Well didn't he?

    No predictions this time.

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted The Bull





    By Ted Sares

    In a piece I did on July 25, 2006 entitled, "James Toney: Why He'll Defeat Samuel Peter," I ended it with the following paragraph:

    "I am feeling cocky (and maybe even foolhardy), but off my recent posted predictions of a draw between Taylor and Wright and a Baldomir win over Gatti by 9th round TKO, I'll go out on the limb and predict that Toney exposes Peter's lack of fundamentals and takes the crude but proud Nigerian to school. I see an semi-exhausted Toney winning by UD or MD."

    Well, I was wrong but not by all that much. This is what is what I think James Toney has to do to prevail in the rematch.

    Arguably, James Toney may have done enough to win the first fight. If so, one could reason he simply needs to put more intensity on the same fight plan to ensure a win in the rematch. But I believe he needs to adjust his approach more substantially based on Samuel Peter's surprising performance. Surprising in the sense his decision win was the least likely outcome expected.

    That said, these are the adjustments I believe "Lights Out" must make if he is to prevail over the Nigerian bomber.

    Toney, who needs to come in lower than 233 lbs, must not make the mistake of throwing hooks in the middle of the ring now that he knows Peter is a decent counter puncher off those hooks. In fact, Peter fought very well in the middle. Peter surprised with his grasp of fundamentals, but the element of surprise is no longer there. On the other hand, Toney surprised by his ability to take Peter's punches and that could be an advantage for Toney going in....though both have rock solid chins.

    This time, James needs to work his way inside "The Nightmare's" not-so-looping shots, and begin connecting with short hooks and sharp counter uppercuts until Samuel starts showing some respect. The operative word here is "inside," as that is something he does better than just about anyone out there. Peter already knows that Toney can throw strong overhand rights down the middle, so by working inside, Toney can maintain a two dimensional attack that could force Peter to become more cautious and tentative thus giving Toney an opportunity to take control.

    Toney, if he comes into the fight in better shape, say at around 225, should pick up the pace in the 4th or 5th round. And since he is now aware Peter can go 12 full rounds at 263 lbs, he will need to pace himself carefully. He also will need to avoid the quasi-rabbit punches for which Peter inexplicitly is never penalized but which can spell the beginning of the end for a Peter opponent and which stunned James on more than one occasion.

    Going down the stretch, Toney needs to be the one who initiates the action and, in particular, the combinations. He needs to orchestrate the situation so that the "Nightmare" is throwing one telegraphed punch at a time.....something Samuel did against Wladimir Klitschko but surprisingly did not do against James. As well, 'Lights Out" needs to dictate the action and expose Peter's suspected lack of fundamentals. But the problem is Peter's lack of basics was not nearly as bad as his critics thought, including me.

    In the rematch, James Toney needs to do what he does best. Use a great defense, fight closer in, assume a rhythm, put together crisp combinations and uppercuts, and fight from angles using shoulder rolls to deflect punches. In other words, pure old school boxing stuff. His task is a daunting one. And one thing is certain, while Peter may not walk through him as some predicted he would in the first fight, he (Peter) will be more confident going in. After all, he did win the first one, didn't he? Well didn't he?

    No predictions this time.
    WOW......CC for an interseting break down. I love posts like this because of the depth and they force you to think analytically.

    I felt Toney won the first fight convincingly but I guess the judges, like most Peter fans, were awe struck by his power. I think Peter will definitely put on a very difficult first couple of rounds with Toney....as I feel he knows that he can hurt Toney and he also knows that Toney can't hurt him. If it goes to the cards Toney should have it but Toneys going to have to survive an initial onslaught because Peter knows that if it goes the distance, he will probably be outboxed again.

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    I don't know if toney wants to give up any weight. Better conditioned yes but he needs size to deal with these big guys. HEs not a tub of goo like people want to say hes beefed up with steroids and added muscle and bulk.
    If he comes in small just the pushing etc will tire him out more that packing an extra 15 or so pounds. Also the weight adds some "drop" to his pop.
    He needs to gain Peter's respect early by landing HARD shots to keep Peter off, then he can settle into his slide and glide.
    I think he needs more combinations. Not just one punch counters that are hard for judges to see and score, but counter and then a follow up with 3 and 4 punch combo's. He MUST show that he can hurt Peter.
    Another point. At the start of the fight with fighters to the middle of the ring,the referee asks "are there any questions?"
    The chief second should ask loud and clear so the microphone and cameras all can get it clearly. "are punches to the back of the head allowed" of course the ref will say no....then say "what if the fighter bends over or down low?"
    then ask what is the penalty or what are you going to do..
    This forces the ref to act in the event of a punch or club to the back of the head which may be a factor as Toney does bend over and lean off to his right against the taller Peter. The only telling shots Toney took in the last fight were those clubbing shots to the back of the head. A warning and then a point could make the difference in the fight. Toney cant fight the entire fight backing away, EFFECTIVE AGRESSIVENESS is a key component of the judges scoring criteria, its hard to win a close fight if you've just spent 12 rounds backing up and it decreases the power of your shots.

    Conclusion: Toney by unanimous decision,Peters hasn't had time to learn how to out box James Toney

    comments??

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    I always agree with Mucho!! hes sooo big and strong!

    lol

    CC comin at ya Ted (el Toro) for a great post!

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    It's a tough fight for Toney mainly because he did everything right the first time around. The judges didn't see it in his favour and to be honest I don't really see how Toney can perform much better than he did last time.

    I'm one of the majority who scored their first fight a unanimous win for Toney and I thought he put on a steller performance.

    If he wins, I imagine it will be by fighting the exact same fight as last time and as we saw with Hopkins and Taylor he very well may end up with the same decision.

    I really hope Toney pulls it off though, I'd love him to win a heavyweight belt and cement his legacy as one of the all time greats.

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by landmine950
    I don't know if toney wants to give up any weight. Better conditioned yes but he needs size to deal with these big guys. HEs not a tub of goo like people want to say hes beefed up with steroids and added muscle and bulk.
    If he comes in small just the pushing etc will tire him out more that packing an extra 15 or so pounds. Also the weight adds some "drop" to his pop.
    He needs to gain Peter's respect early by landing HARD shots to keep Peter off, then he can settle into his slide and glide.
    I think he needs more combinations. Not just one punch counters that are hard for judges to see and score, but counter and then a follow up with 3 and 4 punch combo's. He MUST show that he can hurt Peter.
    Another point. At the start of the fight with fighters to the middle of the ring,the referee asks "are there any questions?"
    The chief second should ask loud and clear so the microphone and cameras all can get it clearly. "are punches to the back of the head allowed" of course the ref will say no....then say "what if the fighter bends over or down low?"
    then ask what is the penalty or what are you going to do..
    This forces the ref to act in the event of a punch or club to the back of the head which may be a factor as Toney does bend over and lean off to his right against the taller Peter. The only telling shots Toney took in the last fight were those clubbing shots to the back of the head. A warning and then a point could make the difference in the fight. Toney cant fight the entire fight backing away, EFFECTIVE AGRESSIVENESS is a key component of the judges scoring criteria, its hard to win a close fight if you've just spent 12 rounds backing up and it decreases the power of your shots.

    Conclusion: Toney by unanimous decision,Peters hasn't had time to learn how to out box James Toney

    comments??

    CC but again I have to wait 24 hours for the Karma thing.

    Good point about asking the ref about rabbit punches. Embarrassingly I never thought of that. It would be a very legitimate question.
    The worst though is when Baby Huey did that double rabbit punch with both hands and sandwiched Toneys little head. That must have hurt.



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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Looked like he was trying to pop a zit!

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by landmine950
    The chief second should ask loud and clear so the microphone and cameras all can get it clearly. "are punches to the back of the head allowed" of course the ref will say no....then say "what if the fighter bends over or down low?"
    then ask what is the penalty or what are you going to do..
    This forces the ref to act in the event of a punch or club to the back of the head which may be a factor as Toney does bend over and lean off to his right against the taller Peter. The only telling shots Toney took in the last fight were those clubbing shots to the back of the head. A warning and then a point could make the difference in the fight. Toney cant fight the entire fight backing away, EFFECTIVE AGRESSIVENESS is a key component of the judges scoring criteria, its hard to win a close fight if you've just spent 12 rounds backing up and it decreases the power of your shots.

    Conclusion: Toney by unanimous decision,Peters hasn't had time to learn how to out box James Toney

    comments??
    I think your absolutely right about asking the ref about that so everyone can hear it so if it does happen something should be done about it. I never thought of that either. Vary good post man. I really hope Toney can pull this off and convince the judges he's the winner.

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Very perceptive article, Ted. Most worthy of a CC....

    I think Toney can perform even better and even win this convincingly...gotta avoid walking into Peters counter hooks and out work him down the stretch....

    Will be a toughy...

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo
    It's a tough fight for Toney mainly because he did everything right the first time around. The judges didn't see it in his favour and to be honest I don't really see how Toney can perform much better than he did last time.

    I'm one of the majority who scored their first fight a unanimous win for Toney and I thought he put on a steller performance.

    If he wins, I imagine it will be by fighting the exact same fight as last time and as we saw with Hopkins and Taylor he very well may end up with the same decision.

    I really hope Toney pulls it off though, I'd love him to win a heavyweight belt and cement his legacy as one of the all time greats.
    CC. I've been thinking the same thing. He's just getting older, he's not improving. He clearly won the first time IMO, unless there are judges with a different philosophy, then I don't see how he can really improve on what he did.

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Quote Originally Posted by landmine950
    Looked like he was trying to pop a zit!
    Lets see if I can make this S*** work right.


    This is Peter's patented Coco the Gorilla punch....

    [youtube=425,350]sGJ5qRNfQag&mode=related&search=[/youtube]

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    landmine950 and Miles, much obliged. As Borak would say, high five!

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Firstly.. great article brother!
    Secondly.. james should buy the judges some glasses this time round.. or at least have them stand on the apron with a monocle!
    Immortal Technique

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    I think Toney will fight better than he did last time and still loose, he lacks the power to make a good impression on the judges.It was the same with Chris Byrd, he was a great boxer but just didn't have the true heavyweight punch.

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    Default Re: Toney vs. Peter: How Toney Can Be Successful In The Rematch

    Tito_BHB, if I knew how to do the high five, I'd do it!

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