ATG status

[killersheep]

Who deserves ATG status, please explain your answer.

[The Rookie Fan]

All time greatness is sometimes hard to define. Especially when it's a fighter who is not done yet.

What if Mayweather loses his next three fights. I know it is unlikely but what if it happends.

Before you tell me I'm crazy, Jones Jr was considered a boxing god before he lossed three in a row, two of which were by devastating knock out. Not to mention the two guys who beat him were not that great. Good but not nearly great. After that, many people began to question his greatness and his lack of competition throughout his career.

At the end I went with both. Simply because their careers and skill level are so similar, one can't be an ATG without the other, and it is just too hard to argue that they are not.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Its hard to talk about greatness without real adversity. Tricky issue.

[Tito BHB]

Both will be known as all time greats because in separate yet similar ways they have both brought something to world and p4p scale boxing that has never been brought before and will never be brought again in quite the same way

And aside from that the simple part is..The most well remembered fighters of all time are always fighters considered number one P4P.. I cannot recall anyone considered Legitimately P4P Number 1 that is not an all time great

Sugar ray Robinson
Muhammad Ali
Sugar ray Leonard
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Cesar Chavez
Roy Jones Junior
Floyd Mayweather

All those names have been P4P number ones and if you look and contemplate theyr legacies each and every one of theyr legacies is undenyable as all time greats..

In fact, I tell a lie.. One man who i considered and at one point im sure millions considered P4P Numero Uno.. James Toney.. I think he will be remembered as an all time great, Always by me, But its no where near gaurenteed by many or to the scale of the rest..
It may be that his reign was not long enough or that he was overshadowed even by Roy while he was number 1 there was always flashy roy sharing the limelight before roy proved he could beat Toney..

But still point bieng both will and roy i believe is an all time great in a big way

[CutMeMick]

All time greatness is sometimes hard to define. Especially when it's a fighter who is not done yet.

What if Mayweather loses his next three fights. I know it is unlikely but what if it happends.

Before you tell me I'm crazy, Jones Jr was considered a boxing god before he lossed three in a row, two of which were by devastating knock out. Not to mention the two guys who beat him were not that great. Good but not nearly great. After that, many people began to question his greatness and his lack of competition throughout his career.

At the end I went with both. Simply because their careers and skill level are so similar, one can't be an ATG without the other, and it is just too hard to argue that they are not.

Take CC#98, very well thought out post and the way you defined RJJs career was spot on.

[CutMeMick]

As for the question I voted: Both

Simple as.

[Deanrw]

I voted for both, Their accomplishments deserve merit.

I still refuse to rank any fighter as pound for pound though. So many fighters out there depend upon slick promotional teams, get crafted careers and get the limelight/media attention, while more skilled fighters often get the shitty end of the stick.

Some of the ignored are in weak weight divisions, or so gifted as a fighter they cannot land attractive fights to prove themselves further.

Guys like Margarito, Cotto, Pavlik etc.. I will always personally rank higher as my personal favs, as they would ink their name in to fight anyone.

[ICB]

There both easily ATG.

Jones Jr Best Wins

Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Bernard Hopkins
James Toney
Mike McCallum
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
John Ruiz
Vinny Pazienza
Thomas Tate
Reggie Johnson
Eric Harding

Middleweight, Supermiddleweight, Lightheavyweight, Heavyweight, World champion in each of these weight classes and when he beat Ruiz for Heavyweight title that feat had not been done since early 1900s.

Floyd Mayweather Jr Best Wins

Zab Judah
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Arturo Gatti
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Diego Corrales
Carlos Hernandez
Genaro Hernadez
Angel Manfredy
Jesus Chavez

Superfeatherweight, Lightweight, Jr Welterweight, Welterweight, Lightmiddleweight, World champion in all of these weight classes, without a doubt Jones and Mayweather are ATG.

[Irish Rover]

6 time world champion across five weight divisions,20 championship fights, 39-0. Beat Corrales, Castillo, DLH and Hatton. Thats what people will remember.


No matter what people say in twenty years time PBF will be looked upon as a great. The nitty gritty of the debate "he didnt fight so and so" " so and so was past it" will mean little in twenty or thrity years time.

Put it this way was Marciano's list of opponents much better thand Floyds? Nobody gives a S***. Marciano was a great and love him or hate him Floyd will be looked upon as a great as well.

[DaxxKahn]

Kind of an easy one here KS...

Roy Jones

Jones is perhaps or should I say WAS perhaps one of the naturally most gifted fighters to ever grace the sport...He came out of the gate strong and garnered our attention at MW...When he went to SMW he was absolutely a phenom...Perhaps the closest thjing to being unbeatable as any fighter in history...He was fast, strong, and could box his ass off....Just when you thought Roy could not get anymore impressive he did just that..Became more impressive....At LHW he reigned for years as not only champion but P4P best in the game with little question
...There was Roy Jones then the rest...When he was signed to fight almost noone debated the outcome, He even jumped 2 weight classes to claim a version on the HW crown...reguardless of which title holder it was against fact is he did it....

You can not argue with a guy who claimed titles at MW, SMW, LHW and HW....The only downfall on Jones is for a long time he went without being tested....

Then again when you look back was it Joes who did not seek out dangerous opp or was he just that good to where even top notch fighters looked ordinary?

By time he lost to Tarver and Johnson he had solidified his place in boxings history. going untested for so long and the sudden weight drop back down to LHW eroded some of his natural ability....But IMO even great fighters can not remain great for ever?


PBF

As much as many of us would love to see his mouth shut it takes nothing away from his in ring ability...
World titles in 5 weight classes is amazing to say the least...He at times has taken the least dangerous of title holders in a division to claim the belts (EG Gatti) but fact remains he claimed the titles....Just as you think he may have went to far in weight (EG DLH bout) he once again shows why he is P4P in the world right now.....

Add brilliant performances against some top caliber and highly thought of champions and you have no choice but to give him his due...Again it matters not what Floyd does from here on out he has already made his spot in history...

The only thing I will have to say is the fact Floyd does not rank as high as he thinks on the ATG scale...(Or as high as his devout fan club believes)....Mainly due to lack of dangerous opponents...Yes he faced and beat Corrales, DLH in a weight class wayy above his natural but many before him have been as dominate against better opp in their primes....And just because a guy is undefeated it does not mean he ranks higher then others who retired with losses on their record...

I put Floyd in the top 20 but more so around the 15 mark give or take a notch or two

[BoxingGorilla]

I really do not have an opinion on Roy Jones Jr. and his greatness. I didn't watch his fights with stars in my eyes. I liked him as a commentator more than a fighter. I'm not fit to judge him on whether he is an all time great.

"Pretty Boy" has kicked open the door to greatness and is peering in at the old timers sipping drinks and comparing stories. I think he needs to kick the ass of a few more undefeated fighters before his legacy is set in stone. Beating Cotto and Mosley would prob be enough in my mind.

De La Hoya, Judah and Hatton are names but Gatti, Baldomir and Sharmba are filler. Castillo, Corrales and Jesus Chavez are good names as well, but he needs a few more prime opponent ass whippings if you ask me...

[Julius Rain]

Talent, i say both but quality of oppenents are both very questionable.

[Mr140]

Well i rate Roy Jones Jr. in the top 20 and Floyd Mayweather top 25 so that is pretty high i think.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

And just because a guy is undefeated it does not mean he ranks higher then others who retired with losses on their record...

Call me crazy, but its for that very reason that i see 'Sweat Pea' ranked as the better.

[Kev]

Both are all time greats even if they lose all their remaining fights.

No fighter in the history of boxing looked as good as Roy Jones in his prime. Nobody ever made boxing look as beautiful as a prime Jones Jr did, not Ali, not Leonard, Robinson, nobody.

No other fighter went from middleweight champ all the way up to heavyweight champ all the while remaining undefeated save for a controversial DQ against a figther he was delivering a final KO blow to.

If he would have retired after Ruiz he could have been an argument for the best ever.

As for Floyd a world champ in 5 weight classes, never beaten, never dropped save for when he broke his hand on someones hand. The best defensive fighter in the last 20 years, probably even better than Sweet Pea.

First ballot Hall of Famers both of them and all time great boxers no question.