In defense of Hatton vs Pacquaio

[Kev]

Ok I see this fight has taken one step closer to materialisation and I've also seen that virtually everyone is opposed to this fight.

As such I am hereby adopting my usual roles as Devil's Advocate and the Anti Gamo campaigner and will attempt to defend this fight.

You guys are all talking about this fight as if it's a tiny little flyweight against a huge junior welterweight. IT'S NOT!

Both fighters are EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE!!

Manny measures 5 ft 6.5 inches with a 67 inch reach. Ricky measures 5 ft 6.5 with a 65 inch reach. Advantage Manny!

Both fighters come into their fights weighing over the 10 stone limit. Manny has campaigned at much lower weights but he is not smaller.

It's not much different than B Hop spending all those years at middleweight. See them side by side and he's actually slightly bigger than Joe Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr and James Toney, great fighters who campaigned at higher weights than him.

Secondly this fight is only in the discussion phase. I'm sure if it does happen Manny will fight first at 135 lbs and see how he copes with the extra weight. If he copes ok then a fight with Ricky is a possibility, if he doesn't then I'm sure the Hatton fight idea would be scrapped. Let's adopt a wait and see approach before castigating everyon involved.

Thirdly, and this is important. Boxers who reach the very top of their game have a RIGHT to fight each other and earn big money. These guys have made sacrifices their entire lives and risked their health, pride, alternative careers etc into making their boxing dreams work.

They certainly shouldn't be begrudged a big payday and the chance to participate in a huge PPV event, and let's face it Hatton vs Pacquiao would be huge!

And now let's consider the alternatives that these guys have. Gamo and his ilk are imploring Ricky Hatton to fight Junior Witter or Paulie Malignaggi to try and reassert himself as king at 140lbs.

F****** hell perlease give me a break! Hatton is near the end of his career. He conquered the junior welterwight division. He defeated the legendary Kosta Tyszu and moved up and won a title at 147 for good measure. He then challenged the world's greatest fighter in one of the biggest British fights of all time!

Where is the motivation to go back down to 140 and fight guys who nobody apart from hardcore fans has even heard of? From Ricky's point of view what is the incentive? To beat guys he's already expected to beat in lowkey fights for half the money he'd get fighting a true p4p legend of the sport. Ask yourselves who would you choose to fight?

Lord know's I'm not a Hatton fan but the guy aimed his sights at being the best fighter in the world. He cleaned up at 140, won a belt at 147 and failed at the last hurdle against Floyd Mayweather. He now has a couple years left in the sport and wants to spend this brief period taking part in mega events against the biggest names in the sport, how can you begrudge him that?

Likewise Manny Pacquiao. Yes he could fight Juan Guzman or Juan Diaz or Valero but ultimately why shouldn't he take the hardest challenge for the most money? Pacquaio has won titles in multiple divisions, he's beaten and knocked out legends of the sport in Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera. Why does he care to add Juan Guzman to his resume?

The only logical opponent out there for Pac is J M Marquez, after that if he wins he's free to aim as high as he pleases and to get the biggest PPV event's he can.

You have to realise that all of these great fighters are at different stages of their careers. They have already conquered divisons and challenged for the top, now their talents have finally got them to the top they want, (and have every right in the world to do so) to take part in the biggest events for the most money.

To criticise Ricky Hatton and say he should turn down a multi million dollar mega showdown with argueably the world's most exciting and popular fighter in favour of fighting Junior Witter at the Doncaster Dome diplays a level of ignorance both in boxing terms and personal human behaviour that just beggers belief.

So in summary, IF this fight takes place it WILL be competitive, both fghters are the same size after all, with the small reach advantage actually going to Manny Pacquaio, and BOTH fighters will have fully justified the right to participate in a huge mega event as they both throughout their careers displayed the courage and ambition to drive themselves to challenge for the very top.

If it happened, I for one would look forward to it.

[OumaFan]

I didn't read it honestly, don't have much of an attention span today

I'm sure you made some good points though

but just a question, do you ever agree with anybody about anything

seriously

[Kev]

I didn't read it honestly, don't have much of an attention span today

I'm sure you made some good points though

but just a question, do you ever agree with anybody about anything

seriously

haha have a and no I never agree with anyone about anything. Where would be the fun in that?

[frozensolid_702]

Ok I see this fight has taken one step closer to materialisation and I've also seen that virtually everyone is opposed to this fight.

As such I am hereby adopting my usual roles as Devil's Advocate and the Anti Gamo campaigner and will attempt to defend this fight.

You guys are all talking about this fight as if it's a tiny little flyweight against a huge junior welterweight. IT'S NOT!

Both fighters are EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE!!

Manny measures 5 ft 6.5 inches with a 67 inch reach. Ricky measures 5 ft 6.5 with a 65 inch reach. Advantage Manny!

Both fighters come into their fights weighing over the 10 stone limit. Manny has campaigned at much lower weights but he is not smaller.

It's not much different than B Hop spending all those years at middleweight. See them side by side and he's actually slightly bigger than Joe Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr and James Toney, great fighters who campaigned at higher weights than him.

Secondly this fight is only in the discussion phase. I'm sure if it does happen Manny will fight first at 135 lbs and see how he copes with the extra weight. If he copes ok then a fight with Ricky is a possibility, if he doesn't then I'm sure the Hatton fight idea would be scrapped. Let's adopt a wait and see approach before castigating everyon involved.

Thirdly, and this is important. Boxers who reach the very top of their game have a RIGHT to fight each other and earn big money. These guys have made sacrifices their entire lives and risked their health, pride, alternative careers etc into making their boxing dreams work.

They certainly shouldn't be begrudged a big payday and the chance to participate in a huge PPV event, and let's face it Hatton vs Pacquiao would be huge!

And now let's consider the alternatives that these guys have. Gamo and his ilk are imploring Ricky Hatton to fight Junior Witter or Paulie Malignaggi to try and reassert himself as king at 140lbs.

F****** hell perlease give me a break! Hatton is near the end of his career. He conquered the junior welterwight division. He defeated the legendary Kosta Tyszu and moved up and won a title at 147 for good measure. He then challenged the world's greatest fighter in one of the biggest British fights of all time!

Where is the motivation to go back down to 140 and fight guys who nobody apart from hardcore fans has even heard of? From Ricky's point of view what is the incentive? To beat guys he's already expected to beat in lowkey fights for half the money he'd get fighting a true p4p legend of the sport. Ask yourselves who would you choose to fight?

Lord know's I'm not a Hatton fan but the guy aimed his sights at being the best fighter in the world. He cleaned up at 140, won a belt at 147 and failed at the last hurdle against Floyd Mayweather. He now has a couple years left in the sport and wants to spend this brief period taking part in mega events against the biggest names in the sport, how can you begrudge him that?

Likewise Manny Pacquiao. Yes he could fight Juan Guzman or Juan Diaz or Valero but ultimately why shouldn't he take the hardest challenge for the most money? Pacquaio has won titles in multiple divisions, he's beaten and knocked out legends of the sport in Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera. Why does he care to add Juan Guzman to his resume?

The only logical opponent out there for Pac is J M Marquez, after that if he wins he's free to aim as high as he pleases and to get the biggest PPV event's he can.

You have to realise that all of these great fighters are at different stages of their careers. They have already conquered divisons and challenged for the top, now their talents have finally got them to the top they want, (and have every right in the world to do so) to take part in the biggest events for the most money.

To criticise Ricky Hatton and say he should turn down a multi million dollar mega showdown with argueably the world's most exciting and popular fighter in favour of fighting Junior Witter at the Doncaster Dome diplays a level of ignorance both in boxing terms and personal human behaviour that just beggers belief.

So in summary, IF this fight takes place it WILL be competitive, both fghters are the same size after all, with the small reach advantage actually going to Manny Pacquaio, and BOTH fighters will have fully justified the right to participate in a huge mega event as they both throughout their careers displayed the courage and ambition to drive themselves to challenge for the very top.

If it happened, I for one would look forward to it.

Good job, Bilbo.

That post should silence the critics.

[Kev]

Ok I see this fight has taken one step closer to materialisation and I've also seen that virtually everyone is opposed to this fight.

As such I am hereby adopting my usual roles as Devil's Advocate and the Anti Gamo campaigner and will attempt to defend this fight.

You guys are all talking about this fight as if it's a tiny little flyweight against a huge junior welterweight. IT'S NOT!

Both fighters are EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE!!

Manny measures 5 ft 6.5 inches with a 67 inch reach. Ricky measures 5 ft 6.5 with a 65 inch reach. Advantage Manny!

Both fighters come into their fights weighing over the 10 stone limit. Manny has campaigned at much lower weights but he is not smaller.

It's not much different than B Hop spending all those years at middleweight. See them side by side and he's actually slightly bigger than Joe Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr and James Toney, great fighters who campaigned at higher weights than him.

Secondly this fight is only in the discussion phase. I'm sure if it does happen Manny will fight first at 135 lbs and see how he copes with the extra weight. If he copes ok then a fight with Ricky is a possibility, if he doesn't then I'm sure the Hatton fight idea would be scrapped. Let's adopt a wait and see approach before castigating everyon involved.

Thirdly, and this is important. Boxers who reach the very top of their game have a RIGHT to fight each other and earn big money. These guys have made sacrifices their entire lives and risked their health, pride, alternative careers etc into making their boxing dreams work.

They certainly shouldn't be begrudged a big payday and the chance to participate in a huge PPV event, and let's face it Hatton vs Pacquiao would be huge!

And now let's consider the alternatives that these guys have. Gamo and his ilk are imploring Ricky Hatton to fight Junior Witter or Paulie Malignaggi to try and reassert himself as king at 140lbs.

F****** hell perlease give me a break! Hatton is near the end of his career. He conquered the junior welterwight division. He defeated the legendary Kosta Tyszu and moved up and won a title at 147 for good measure. He then challenged the world's greatest fighter in one of the biggest British fights of all time!

Where is the motivation to go back down to 140 and fight guys who nobody apart from hardcore fans has even heard of? From Ricky's point of view what is the incentive? To beat guys he's already expected to beat in lowkey fights for half the money he'd get fighting a true p4p legend of the sport. Ask yourselves who would you choose to fight?

Lord know's I'm not a Hatton fan but the guy aimed his sights at being the best fighter in the world. He cleaned up at 140, won a belt at 147 and failed at the last hurdle against Floyd Mayweather. He now has a couple years left in the sport and wants to spend this brief period taking part in mega events against the biggest names in the sport, how can you begrudge him that?

Likewise Manny Pacquiao. Yes he could fight Juan Guzman or Juan Diaz or Valero but ultimately why shouldn't he take the hardest challenge for the most money? Pacquaio has won titles in multiple divisions, he's beaten and knocked out legends of the sport in Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera. Why does he care to add Juan Guzman to his resume?

The only logical opponent out there for Pac is J M Marquez, after that if he wins he's free to aim as high as he pleases and to get the biggest PPV event's he can.

You have to realise that all of these great fighters are at different stages of their careers. They have already conquered divisons and challenged for the top, now their talents have finally got them to the top they want, (and have every right in the world to do so) to take part in the biggest events for the most money.

To criticise Ricky Hatton and say he should turn down a multi million dollar mega showdown with argueably the world's most exciting and popular fighter in favour of fighting Junior Witter at the Doncaster Dome diplays a level of ignorance both in boxing terms and personal human behaviour that just beggers belief.

So in summary, IF this fight takes place it WILL be competitive, both fghters are the same size after all, with the small reach advantage actually going to Manny Pacquaio, and BOTH fighters will have fully justified the right to participate in a huge mega event as they both throughout their careers displayed the courage and ambition to drive themselves to challenge for the very top.

If it happened, I for one would look forward to it.

Good job, Bilbo.

That post should silence the critics.

God I hope not I'm a troll I want a flame war

[LeftHookToTheBody]

Excellent points, CC. Hatton does't owe it to anybody to fight Witter or Paulie for probably a fraction of what he could get against Pacman. And, as you said, it isn't the mismatch some are making it out to be. Pacman's foot and hand speed could give Hatton fits, and if he fights a disciplined stick and move bout I wouldn't be shocked to see him win a points decision.

[Kev]

Excellent points, CC. Hatton does it owe it to anybody to fight Witter or Paulie for probably a fraction of what he could get against Pacman. And, as you said, it isn't the mismatch some are making it out to be. Pacman's foot and hand speed could give Hatton fits, and if he fights a disciplined stick and move bout I wouldn't be shocked to see him win a points decision.

exactly, it's far less of a size difference than when Floyd fought Oscar or James Toney fought Holyfield or Sam Peter.

It's a great fight imo and should be competitive. Pacquaio is quick and in the eyes of the anti Mayweather brigade, Emmanuel Steward, Larry Merchant etc the world's best p4p fighter.

What better fight for such a talent than to move up and fight the best lightweight in the world.

Is this really any different than Roberto Duran moving up to fight Marvin Hagler?

I think not

[LeftHookToTheBody]

Yep, like Hagler, when you don't have any economically viable opponents in your own weight class, you have to go digging for the big purses elsewhere. Not a thing wrong with that. And let's not pretend Hatton is ducking anybody. He called out PBF when not many gave him a prayer, and I don't doubt for a second that he'd fight De La Hoya if the Golden Boy were still interested. People want him to fight Witter, but what does Witter bring to the table? The fight does nothing for him in the US, the money is pittance compared to what he'd get against Pacman, and beating Witter does absolutely nothing for his legacy while a loss would be disastrous for it. High risk, minimal reward...who can blame him?

[Kev]

Yep, like Hagler, when you don't have any economically viable opponents in your own weight class, you have to go digging for the big purses elsewhere. Not a thing wrong with that. And let's not pretend Hatton is ducking anybody. He called out PBF when not many gave him a prayer, and I don't doubt for a second that he'd fight De La Hoya if the Golden Boy were still interested. People want him to fight Witter, but what does Witter bring to the table? The fight does nothing for him in the US, the money is pittance compared to what he'd get against Pacman, and beating Witter does absolutely nothing for his legacy while a loss would be disastrous for it. High risk, minimal reward...who can blame him?

That's exactly it. If Hatton fights Pacquaio in 30 years time people will still remember the fight. If he fights Junior Witter history will barely remember it at all.

Fighting a decent current fighter in your weight class is meaningless in the longterm sense.

Who cares or remembers the title reigns of Carlos Maussa or Juan Urango? If Hatton beat Witter a complete and total non entity in the States what he would he possibly stand to gain?

How would history remember such pointless fights to end a career?

[p4pking]

You do make some good points, but the main gripe I have with your post is that you imply fighters should make decisions that are entirely financial, not considering their own pride, or the good and the evolution of the sport itself.. What reason did Barrera have to fight Pac, he wasn't a big name.. KT and Hatton was different I suppose, because Hatton has always had drawing power and presented Kosta a big payday before he had done anything.. But generally speaking, when top fighters only look to fight established names for the highest available purse all the time, you end up with the dinosaur circuit we have today. It's not good for boxing to deny up and coming talents their chance to prove themselves against established stars.. I don't want to see De la Hoya, Hopkins, Jones JR, Barrera, Mosley, Marquez, Trinidad fight one another for years to come... Who gives a damn. If these guys want to fight on, fight a young up and comer who can carry the torch after you. It's the fact that we as boxing fans don't always see the passing of the guard, which is one of the great aspects of sport. Instead, we end up with these guys milking their careers by fighting one another time and time again in fights that only excite people who don't really follow the sport. You have to remember it's not just about individual paydays, but the potential revenue that the sport can generate in years to come.. Maybe Malignaggi, or Guzman, Valero, etc. could be big PPV stars in a couple years, but we won't find out unless they get a chance to shine against the best. Boxing needs young stars to be born more than it does current ones jumping around in weight to fight each other. Especially when the matchups don't even make sense. What is Pac going to do if he manages to beat Hatton at 140, stay there and unify? If that were the case then great, but why not let them each become unified champions in their respective divisions first? In this case it's because neither want's to lose, since they don't have the time left to work their way back.

[Fenster]

Hmm.. think i agree with you bilbo.. it's the type of fight you couldn't really begrudge either for what they'd get out of it.

PLUS I could see the fight being a classic...



.. for at least 2mins before Pac is left squirming on the floor in agonising pain.

[LeftHookToTheBody]

You do make some good points, but the main gripe I have with your post is that you imply fighters should make decisions that are entirely financial, not considering their own pride, or the good and the evolution of the sport itself.. What reason did Barrera have to fight Pac, he wasn't a big name.. KT and Hatton was different I suppose, because Hatton has always had drawing power and presented Kosta a big payday before he had done anything.. But generally speaking, when top fighters only look to fight established names for the highest available purse all the time, you end up with the dinosaur circuit we have today. It's not good for boxing to deny up and coming talents their chance to prove themselves against established stars.. I don't want to see De la Hoya, Hopkins, Jones JR, Barrera, Mosley, Marquez, Trinidad fight one another for years to come... Who gives a damn. If these guys want to fight on, fight a young up and comer who can carry the torch after you. It's the fact that we as boxing fans don't always see the passing of the guard, which is one of the great aspects of sport. Instead, we end up with these guys milking their careers by fighting one another time and time again in fights that only excite people who don't really follow the sport. You have to remember it's not just about individual paydays, but the potential revenue that the sport can generate in years to come.. Maybe Malignaggi, or Guzman, Valero, etc. could be big PPV stars in a couple years, but we won't find out unless they get a chance to shine against the best. Boxing needs young stars to be born more than it does current ones jumping around in weight to fight each other. Especially when the matchups don't even make sense. What is Pac going to do if he manages to beat Hatton at 140, stay there and unify? If that were the case then great, but why not let them each become unified champions in their respective divisions first? In this case it's because neither want's to lose, since they don't have the time left to work their way back.

First of all, I don't agree with the premise that fighters have any responsibility to the sport beyond their own careers. It's a nice thought, but not very realistic. But, even if true, how would Hatton-Witter help the evolution of the sport? It's a fight that would garner zero interest outside the UK. Even within the UK, is Witter really that much of an entity? I think fights that draw in mainstream crowds do more for the evolution of the sport than a big name fighting worthy but unknown contenders. Even if Witter won, does he have a style or personality that would vault him to stardom? As Bilbo said, Hatton-Pacman would likely be remembered years down the road...do you really think the same for Witter-Hatton? Doesn't a fight that sticks in the memory do a lot for the evolution of the sport?

[ono]

I agree with pretty much everything Bilbo said.

I'm in full support of this fight. Sure Hatton would have a slight weight advantage....altho by fight night i reckon they would be at similar weights. Pac has a height and reach advantage i think.....and definatlely a speed advantage. Style wise it would make for a fantastic fight.

I'd have no gripes about this fight.....none at all.

[p4pking]

You do make some good points, but the main gripe I have with your post is that you imply fighters should make decisions that are entirely financial, not considering their own pride, or the good and the evolution of the sport itself.. What reason did Barrera have to fight Pac, he wasn't a big name.. KT and Hatton was different I suppose, because Hatton has always had drawing power and presented Kosta a big payday before he had done anything.. But generally speaking, when top fighters only look to fight established names for the highest available purse all the time, you end up with the dinosaur circuit we have today. It's not good for boxing to deny up and coming talents their chance to prove themselves against established stars.. I don't want to see De la Hoya, Hopkins, Jones JR, Barrera, Mosley, Marquez, Trinidad fight one another for years to come... Who gives a damn. If these guys want to fight on, fight a young up and comer who can carry the torch after you. It's the fact that we as boxing fans don't always see the passing of the guard, which is one of the great aspects of sport. Instead, we end up with these guys milking their careers by fighting one another time and time again in fights that only excite people who don't really follow the sport. You have to remember it's not just about individual paydays, but the potential revenue that the sport can generate in years to come.. Maybe Malignaggi, or Guzman, Valero, etc. could be big PPV stars in a couple years, but we won't find out unless they get a chance to shine against the best. Boxing needs young stars to be born more than it does current ones jumping around in weight to fight each other. Especially when the matchups don't even make sense. What is Pac going to do if he manages to beat Hatton at 140, stay there and unify? If that were the case then great, but why not let them each become unified champions in their respective divisions first? In this case it's because neither want's to lose, since they don't have the time left to work their way back.

First of all, I don't agree with the premise that fighters have any responsibility to the sport beyond their own careers. It's a nice thought, but not very realistic. But, even if true, how would Hatton-Witter help the evolution of the sport? It's a fight that would garner zero interest outside the UK. Even within the UK, is Witter really that much of an entity? I think fights that draw in mainstream crowds do more for the evolution of the sport than a big name fighting worthy but unknown contenders. Even if Witter won, does he have a style or personality that would vault him to stardom? As Bilbo said, Hatton-Pacman would likely be remembered years down the road...do you really think the same for Witter-Hatton? Doesn't a fight that sticks in the memory do a lot for the evolution of the sport?

I wasn't implying that it's a fighters responsibility to further the sport, but champions should face pressure to fight the best challengers to their title. And by doing so, they are helping the sport, although obviously that isn't why they do it, I realize that. Pride and personal achievement should play a role in it as well. I agree with you Hatton Witter probably won't be a big event that people will remember, but it could be if it unfolded as a great fight.. Which I think is more likely than Hatton vs Pac being a great fight anyways. And that's what people remember in years to come, great fights. Not great fighters who moved up to far in weight and lost to a guy who isn't nearly as good as they were p4p. I don't think it makes any sense for Pac to fight at 140, Hatton will be too strong for him, end of imo. But that is besides the point.. You brought up Witter, but really he demonstrates my point in the least of any top contenders at from 130-140.. Witter isn't new blood, he's not a very exciting fighter, though he can be imo.. And he's shown little desire to chase the big fights.. Sure, he's not going to be a big star.. But Malignaggi could be, Guzman may, Valero could be a big draw imo.. Juan Diaz would be a far better fight for Hatton... He could be real popular if he keeps winning. I also don't understand how you fail to see how Hatton Witter could help the evolution of the sport... Any fight that results in a unified champion can't be a bad thing... Sure Witter isn't a big name, but he's a good fighter and a real threat to Ricky.. If he beat Hatton, I'm not suggesting he would be hailed as the messiah and start doing HBO numbers...But he would be the linear LWW champion, and maybe he'll find the balls to give a young contender a shot, as Hatton apparently won't. That's how it could help the evolution of the sport.

[Cortez The Killer]

I agree as well, that was an impressive write-up bilbo

I don't quite understand all the hate on this fight either. I understand how one could say hatton doesn't have to look far for fights with natural fighters in his division, but none of those would generate half the hype of a Hatton-Pac showdown. I think the idea of it sounds very exciting. These two in the ring would be a legal dog fight!