British Fighters and their place in history...

[BIG H]

Some of us are guilty of over hyping our own country men and VD, some of us are incapable of ever giving a British fighter any credit
So this is literally a 10 minute post to highlight some of the great British fighters through the years and give some objective views on their place in history. I'm sure I could do a better job on this if I had spent more time, so let me know who and what I've missed

Heavyweight - Lennox Lewis

I think Lewis had the tools to be beat any heavyweight in history, but I also think plenty could've knocked him out! I'd back Prime Tyson and Prime Larry Holmes to beat him

Light Heavy - Freddie Mills or John Conteh (can't split them)

Conteh had a great losing battle battle against Mathew Said Muhammad, but in truth neither he or Mills were anywhere near the class of the likes of Michael Spinks or Archie Moore

Super Middle - Joe Cazlaghe

I think Calzaghe vs Nunn would've been a 'pick em' and I think RJJ would've beaten him, but apart from that I don't see anybody in the division beating him

Middleweight - Randy Turpin

Has to go in here just for beating SRR, but he wouldn't have lived with Hagler or Monzon or many others in my opinion

Welterweight - Lloyd Honeyghan

Maybe the most underrrated British fighter in recent times imo. Something happend to him after the 1st Vaca fight and he looked like a shot fighter from then on. Good wins against Curry, Blocker and Bumphus, I think the Honeyghan that fought Curry, beats Breland and Starling, hard to say how he would fair against the likes of Kosta Tszyu, I suspect Tszyu beats him

Lightweight - Ken Buchanan

Up there with Honeyghan as one of the most underrated British fighters ever in my opinion. Wins against Ismael Laguna, Carlos Hernandez and Carlos Ortiz. Met the greatest Lightweight ever in Roberto Duran and was stopped after an illegal shot to the nuts, but despite being amazingly brave in that fight he was getting savaged. No shame in losing to an undefeated prime Duran in 13 rounds though!

Featherweight - Howard Winstone or Naseem Hamed

Only had 2 full fingers on his right hand, which must have impared him hugely. Went toe-to-toe 3 times with the great Vincente Sadivar. I think the modern greats like JMM, MAB and Morales would all have proved to much for Howard though! I think Hamed would've beaten JMM circa 97-200 (before JMM was the fighter he is today) and I think Hamed v Pac would be a case of who lands firts. Morales and Barerra were a different class though!

Flyweight - Jimmy Wilde

Probably has the biggest shout of any British boxer as being the greatest ever in his division. The closest contender is probably Pancho Villa, who beat an ageing Wilde in Wide's final fight. I haven't seen enough of Wilde to be sure, but I am crowning him the greats Flyweight of all time!!


There are lots of fighters that I have left out becuase I really haven't seen enough to make a judgement i.e Bob Fitzsimmons, , Jim Driscol, Ted 'Kid' Lewis & Freddie Welsh to name a few

[superheavyrhun]

Good post Mr Big, or is it Mr H.

I think comparing fighters of different generations is always going to be difficult, because boxing has changed stylistically over the years, and the professionalism has grown as well.

In terms of the ones that would be succesful outside their generations, I think speed and elusiveness would always do well regardless of era, and a big punch helps too.

[JazMerkin]

Some of us are guilty of over hyping our own country men and VD, some of us are incapable of ever giving a British fighter any credit
So this is literally a 10 minute post to highlight some of the great British fighters through the years and give some objective views on their place in history. I'm sure I could do a better job on this if I had spent more time, so let me know who and what I've missed

Heavyweight - Lennox Lewis

I think Lewis had the tools to be beat any heavyweight in history, but I also think plenty could've knocked him out! I'd back Prime Tyson and Prime Larry Holmes to beat him

Has been surprisingly overlooked in the recent rush to crown JC the greatest British boxer of all time. I think he comfortably gets into the top 10 HW of all time, but in truth, I can't see him beating the guys who I consider top 5, namely Ali, Holmes, Louis, Frazier & Jack Johnson. However, he was a hell of a fighter, and I think were it not for his at times questionable chin, he could have been up there right at the pinnacle.


Light Heavy - Freddie Mills or John Conteh (can't split them)

Conteh had a great losing battle battle against Mathew Said Muhammad, but in truth neither he or Mills were anywhere near the class of the likes of Michael Spinks or Archie Moore

Don't know much about Mills other than someone said he was a serial killer so can't really comment, but with Conteh, there probably haven't been many more naturally talented boxers to come out of the UK, however he was never quite up there with the best of the best at LHW.


Super Middle - Joe Cazlaghe

I think Calzaghe vs Nunn would've been a 'pick em' and I think RJJ would've beaten him, but apart from that I don't see anybody in the division beating him

I think Calzaghe is in a unique position of being monstrously underrated & grossly overrated at the same time. He is certainly not the fraud some paint him to be, yes he did beat too many bums & faded fighters, but his win against Kessler for me is proof of just how good he was. However, I personally thought he lost the Hopkins fight & regardless of what others say Hopkins is not the same fighter he used to be. He beat Pavlik that badly because Pavlik is limited & I always thought Calzaghe should have gone for him because it would have been Jeff Lacy all over again. Joe is certainly not as great a fighter as some paint him, he is not up there with the likes of Ali, SRR & Pep. He would no doubt be at somewhere at the lower third of a greatest 100, but he will always be hurt by the fact he largely fought weak & faded opponents. For me a prime RJJ, B-Hop & Toney would all have beaten him at MW, SMW or LHW. This is not to say he's not a great fighter, but the problem is we will never know how great.


Middleweight - Randy Turpin

Has to go in here just for beating SRR, but he wouldn't have lived with Hagler or Monzon or many others in my opinion

Agreed on this, as great as Turpin's victory was, it was largely aided by the fact SRR was tired after having only fought 3 weeks previously. However, any man who can beat a close to prime SRR deserves his credit, but can't see him living with best of the MW division as it is arguably the best division in boxing history.


Welterweight - Lloyd Honeyghan

Maybe the most underrrated British fighter in recent times imo. Something happend to him after the 1st Vaca fight and he looked like a shot fighter from then on. Good wins against Curry, Blocker and Bumphus, I think the Honeyghan that fought Curry, beats Breland and Starling, hard to say how he would fair against the likes of Kosta Tszyu, I suspect Tszyu beats him

His destruction of Curry rightly deserves its place in boxing history. At that time Curry was supposedly headed towards p4p greatness, but Honeyghan took him apart & he was never the same fighter again. However, this often taken to mean that he wasn't a very good fighter, as his name normally gets brought up when the likes of Lockett & Jennings fight, guys who quite frankly aren't even near the same league. Honeyghan is for me the best welterweight in British history, yet bizarrely doesn't get anywhere near the same hype as others.


Lightweight - Ken Buchanan

Up there with Honeyghan as one of the most underrated British fighters ever in my opinion. Wins against Ismael Laguna, Carlos Hernandez and Carlos Ortiz. Met the greatest Lightweight ever in Roberto Duran and was stopped after an illegal shot to the nuts, but despite being amazingly brave in that fight he was getting savaged. No shame in losing to an undefeated prime Duran in 13 rounds though!

Agreed on pretty much every word there.


Featherweight - Howard Winstone or Naseem Hamed

Only had 2 full fingers on his right hand, which must have impared him hugely. Went toe-to-toe 3 times with the great Vincente Sadivar. I think the modern greats like JMM, MAB and Morales would all have proved to much for Howard though! I think Hamed would've beaten JMM circa 97-200 (before JMM was the fighter he is today) and I think Hamed v Pac would be a case of who lands firts. Morales and Barerra were a different class though!

Don't know enough about Winstone, but the general consensus was he was pretty damn good. Regards to Hamed, I feel he would have struggled with JMM at any stage, I think JMM would have figured him out & probably even KO'd him. I think he could beat the early Featherweight Pac, but once Pacquiao had picked up the skills a bit better, I think Pacquiao probably beats him. MAB showed how to beat him, & I think would have done 99 times out of a 100. Morales was always the one I was curious to see. Maybe its because I used to intensely dislike EM, but despite his sturdy chin, I always thought Naz might be able to get him, as I always though Morales was a bit weak at reading how to beat an unorthodox fighter, and I personally thought MAB beat him 3 times so actually don't rate him on the same level.

Flyweight - Jimmy Wilde

Probably has the biggest shout of any British boxer as being the greatest ever in his division. The closest contender is probably Pancho Villa, who beat an ageing Wilde in Wide's final fight. I haven't seen enough of Wilde to be sure, but I am crowning him the greats Flyweight of all time!!

Although have only seen a bit of him, I reckon Wilde probably was the best Flyweight of all time, the closest contenders for me being Villa & maybe Miguel Canto. I will admit I don't know that much about this division, but from the youtubeing I've done, he looks the best.



There are lots of fighters that I have left out becuase I really haven't seen enough to make a judgement i.e Bob Fitzsimmons, , Jim Driscol, Ted 'Kid' Lewis & Freddie Welsh to name a few

Comments above in blue

[BIG H]

Some of us are guilty of over hyping our own country men and VD, some of us are incapable of ever giving a British fighter any credit
So this is literally a 10 minute post to highlight some of the great British fighters through the years and give some objective views on their place in history. I'm sure I could do a better job on this if I had spent more time, so let me know who and what I've missed

Heavyweight - Lennox Lewis

I think Lewis had the tools to be beat any heavyweight in history, but I also think plenty could've knocked him out! I'd back Prime Tyson and Prime Larry Holmes to beat him

Has been surprisingly overlooked in the recent rush to crown JC the greatest British boxer of all time. I think he comfortably gets into the top 10 HW of all time, but in truth, I can't see him beating the guys who I consider top 5, namely Ali, Holmes, Louis, Frazier & Jack Johnson. However, he was a hell of a fighter, and I think were it not for his at times questionable chin, he could have been up there right at the pinnacle.


Light Heavy - Freddie Mills or John Conteh (can't split them)

Conteh had a great losing battle battle against Mathew Said Muhammad, but in truth neither he or Mills were anywhere near the class of the likes of Michael Spinks or Archie Moore

Don't know much about Mills other than someone said he was a serial killer so can't really comment, but with Conteh, there probably haven't been many more naturally talented boxers to come out of the UK, however he was never quite up there with the best of the best at LHW.


Super Middle - Joe Cazlaghe

I think Calzaghe vs Nunn would've been a 'pick em' and I think RJJ would've beaten him, but apart from that I don't see anybody in the division beating him

I think Calzaghe is in a unique position of being monstrously underrated & grossly overrated at the same time. He is certainly not the fraud some paint him to be, yes he did beat too many bums & faded fighters, but his win against Kessler for me is proof of just how good he was. However, I personally thought he lost the Hopkins fight & regardless of what others say Hopkins is not the same fighter he used to be. He beat Pavlik that badly because Pavlik is limited & I always thought Calzaghe should have gone for him because it would have been Jeff Lacy all over again. Joe is certainly not as great a fighter as some paint him, he is not up there with the likes of Ali, SRR & Pep. He would no doubt be at somewhere at the lower third of a greatest 100, but he will always be hurt by the fact he largely fought weak & faded opponents. For me a prime RJJ, B-Hop & Toney would all have beaten him at MW, SMW or LHW. This is not to say he's not a great fighter, but the problem is we will never know how great.


Middleweight - Randy Turpin

Has to go in here just for beating SRR, but he wouldn't have lived with Hagler or Monzon or many others in my opinion

Agreed on this, as great as Turpin's victory was, it was largely aided by the fact SRR was tired after having only fought 3 weeks previously. However, any man who can beat a close to prime SRR deserves his credit, but can't see him living with best of the MW division as it is arguably the best division in boxing history.


Welterweight - Lloyd Honeyghan

Maybe the most underrrated British fighter in recent times imo. Something happend to him after the 1st Vaca fight and he looked like a shot fighter from then on. Good wins against Curry, Blocker and Bumphus, I think the Honeyghan that fought Curry, beats Breland and Starling, hard to say how he would fair against the likes of Kosta Tszyu, I suspect Tszyu beats him

His destruction of Curry rightly deserves its place in boxing history. At that time Curry was supposedly headed towards p4p greatness, but Honeyghan took him apart & he was never the same fighter again. However, this often taken to mean that he wasn't a very good fighter, as his name normally gets brought up when the likes of Lockett & Jennings fight, guys who quite frankly aren't even near the same league. Honeyghan is for me the best welterweight in British history, yet bizarrely doesn't get anywhere near the same hype as others.


Lightweight - Ken Buchanan

Up there with Honeyghan as one of the most underrated British fighters ever in my opinion. Wins against Ismael Laguna, Carlos Hernandez and Carlos Ortiz. Met the greatest Lightweight ever in Roberto Duran and was stopped after an illegal shot to the nuts, but despite being amazingly brave in that fight he was getting savaged. No shame in losing to an undefeated prime Duran in 13 rounds though!

Agreed on pretty much every word there.


Featherweight - Howard Winstone or Naseem Hamed

Only had 2 full fingers on his right hand, which must have impared him hugely. Went toe-to-toe 3 times with the great Vincente Sadivar. I think the modern greats like JMM, MAB and Morales would all have proved to much for Howard though! I think Hamed would've beaten JMM circa 97-200 (before JMM was the fighter he is today) and I think Hamed v Pac would be a case of who lands firts. Morales and Barerra were a different class though!

Don't know enough about Winstone, but the general consensus was he was pretty damn good. Regards to Hamed, I feel he would have struggled with JMM at any stage, I think JMM would have figured him out & probably even KO'd him. I think he could beat the early Featherweight Pac, but once Pacquiao had picked up the skills a bit better, I think Pacquiao probably beats him. MAB showed how to beat him, & I think would have done 99 times out of a 100. Morales was always the one I was curious to see. Maybe its because I used to intensely dislike EM, but despite his sturdy chin, I always thought Naz might be able to get him, as I always though Morales was a bit weak at reading how to beat an unorthodox fighter, and I personally thought MAB beat him 3 times so actually don't rate him on the same level.

Flyweight - Jimmy Wilde

Probably has the biggest shout of any British boxer as being the greatest ever in his division. The closest contender is probably Pancho Villa, who beat an ageing Wilde in Wide's final fight. I haven't seen enough of Wilde to be sure, but I am crowning him the greats Flyweight of all time!!

Although have only seen a bit of him, I reckon Wilde probably was the best Flyweight of all time, the closest contenders for me being Villa & maybe Miguel Canto. I will admit I don't know that much about this division, but from the youtubeing I've done, he looks the best.



There are lots of fighters that I have left out becuase I really haven't seen enough to make a judgement i.e Bob Fitzsimmons, , Jim Driscol, Ted 'Kid' Lewis & Freddie Welsh to name a few

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Quality post Jaz