roberto MANOS DE PIEDRA duran

[BoomBoom]

I think Castillo basically set the blueprint on how to beat Mayweather imo, and Duran could followed it easily and then some. I think Duran was too much fighter for Mayweather at lightweight, too much will, too strong, and skill to match. Floyd wouldnt have the firepower to keep Duran off of him.

[paddy448]

I think Castillo basically set the blueprint on how to beat Mayweather imo, and Duran could followed it easily and then some. I think Duran was too much fighter for Mayweather at lightweight, too much will, too strong, and skill to match. Floyd wouldnt have the firepower to keep Duran off of him.

totally agree there mate. the thing is with duran what people no him for is the fire power like u say but his defence was equally as good. the way he use to slip and slide and just ride punches was unbelievable. and yeah there is no way mayweather would be able keep duran off. no way

[paddy448]

I think Castillo basically set the blueprint on how to beat Mayweather imo, and Duran could followed it easily and then some. I think Duran was too much fighter for Mayweather at lightweight, too much will, too strong, and skill to match. Floyd wouldnt have the firepower to keep Duran off of him.

and yeah floyd is not busy enough to keep duran at bay. the way duran use to get inside fighters then just rip those body shots. when i think about i really cant find one singe weakness in his game not one

[ICB]

I think Castillo basically set the blueprint on how to beat Mayweather imo, and Duran could followed it easily and then some. I think Duran was too much fighter for Mayweather at lightweight, too much will, too strong, and skill to match. Floyd wouldnt have the firepower to keep Duran off of him.

Floyd Mayweather Jr was injured with a bad shoulder in the 1st fight, in the 2nd fight when he was 100 percent. It was a clear win points wise for Floyd Mayweather Jr. And Floyd Mayweather Jr has improved since that fight.

I could easily comeback and say Kirkland Laing, Wilfred Benitez, all set the blue print on how to beat Roberto Duran. So why can't Floyd Mayweather Jr do it ?

[paddy448]

I think Castillo basically set the blueprint on how to beat Mayweather imo, and Duran could followed it easily and then some. I think Duran was too much fighter for Mayweather at lightweight, too much will, too strong, and skill to match. Floyd wouldnt have the firepower to keep Duran off of him.

Floyd Mayweather Jr was injured with a bad shoulder in the 1st fight, in the 2nd fight when he was 100 percent. It was a clear win points wise for Floyd Mayweather Jr. And Floyd Mayweather Jr has improved since that fight.

I could easily comeback and say Kirkland Laing, Wilfred Benitez, all set the blue print on how to beat Roberto Duran. So why can't Floyd Mayweather Jr do it ?

i get the feelin u think mayweather would best duran. as good as mayweather is i just cant see it

[The Wind]

ok this may seem like a random thread, but duran for me is the greatest fighter i have ever seen, sure there have been better boxers but im talking about a fighter,can anyone agree with me on the difference between a boxer and a fighter, ive brought this thread up because i just watched one of my many duran dvds again and i cant help thinking of the possible dream matchups i would love to see him in against other great fighters that wasnt around in his time, may i ask u guys for fights ud love to see him in or just comments on what u loved about this great warrior, how would u see him fairing in fights today agaisnt the top guys from lightweight to middleweight, e.g marquez, mayweather, pacman,cotto,mosley, margarito,cambell,guzman,prime de la hoya, cant think of any middleweights worth mentioning to be honest and from yester year the great chavez, sweat pea, hawk time pryor, prime tyszu, the list goes on and on.i need to stop or ill never finish this thread

Roberto Duran was a great fighter but he did struggle against boxers, losses to Kirkland Laing, Robbie Simms, are a bit unforgivable. And its not like he was a shot fighter when he lost those fights either.

At Lightweight he was amazing and he had some very good wins, but again i don't feel it was anything amazing. Its the way he comeback like against Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, ETC. That made him special IMO.

But i always liked watching a prime Julio Cesar Chavez more, he was like an artist at work when he went to the body. Just amazing stuff to watch.

But as for your thread the fighters that would of beat Roberto Duran IMO are.

Lightweight:

Pernell Whitaker
Shane Mosley
Floyd Mayweather Jr

Jr Welterweight:

Meldrick Taylor

Welterweight:

Donald Curry
Felix Trinidad
Paul Williams

Jr Middleweight:

Mike McCallum
Julian Jackson
Terry Norris

Middleweight:

James Toney
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Gerald McClellan
Michael Nunn

And by the way i done present fighters or fighters around the time of Roberto Duran, not past fighters otherwise that would take all day to think of that many and work it all out.

ICB - That's a joke, you can't be serious and say that Duran struggled against natural boxers.

What makes your post lose all substance IMO is when you list all the above and say they would beat him.

Then you say you prefer to watch JC Chavez becuase he was an artist, yes, I too like Chavez, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, however, if you feel Duran was not an artist, then IMO Duran was one of the greatest artists ever, and alltough he was very agressive he was an amazing boxer, jab, rolling with the punches, slipping, body attack, head movement I could go on and on.

Agressive master and defensive master.

One of the greatest boxers/fighters of all time.

[BoomBoom]

I think Castillo basically set the blueprint on how to beat Mayweather imo, and Duran could followed it easily and then some. I think Duran was too much fighter for Mayweather at lightweight, too much will, too strong, and skill to match. Floyd wouldnt have the firepower to keep Duran off of him.

Floyd Mayweather Jr was injured with a bad shoulder in the 1st fight, in the 2nd fight when he was 100 percent. It was a clear win points wise for Floyd Mayweather Jr. And Floyd Mayweather Jr has improved since that fight.

I could easily comeback and say Kirkland Laing, Wilfred Benitez, all set the blue print on how to beat Roberto Duran. So why can't Floyd Mayweather Jr do it ?

i get the feelin u think mayweather would best duran. as good as mayweather is i just cant see it

We are talking about the best lightweight version of each. So most would agree that the Mayweather who beat Castillo the second time and Coralles was his best at that weight. Still, my argument stands. Duran was far superior to those guys and even in the second Castillo fight, Castillo still won rounds. 4 or 5. Floyd wouldnt be able to deal with Duran because, like Paddy was saying he had a great defence himself and the more Floyd threw at him the more Duran would be in a position himself to get in the pocket and land to the body and head. He was too much of a force for a fighter like Floyd who needs space to think. Im not sying Floyd wouldnt win any rounds, cause he probably would hold his own. They would just be close rounds that Duran would do the better work. I also think it would likely go the distance with a clear-cut Duran victory.

[generalbulldog]

Sure whatever makes you feel good. JC Chavez the Mexican version of Duran destroyed Whittaker didn't he?

Duran would be made to look like the fool against Whittaker at 135,140, or 147. And same with Floyd Mayweather would do the same to Duran at 135, 140, 147.

And Duran was not a defensive master.

[ICB]

ok this may seem like a random thread, but duran for me is the greatest fighter i have ever seen, sure there have been better boxers but im talking about a fighter,can anyone agree with me on the difference between a boxer and a fighter, ive brought this thread up because i just watched one of my many duran dvds again and i cant help thinking of the possible dream matchups i would love to see him in against other great fighters that wasnt around in his time, may i ask u guys for fights ud love to see him in or just comments on what u loved about this great warrior, how would u see him fairing in fights today agaisnt the top guys from lightweight to middleweight, e.g marquez, mayweather, pacman,cotto,mosley, margarito,cambell,guzman,prime de la hoya, cant think of any middleweights worth mentioning to be honest and from yester year the great chavez, sweat pea, hawk time pryor, prime tyszu, the list goes on and on.i need to stop or ill never finish this thread

Roberto Duran was a great fighter but he did struggle against boxers, losses to Kirkland Laing, Robbie Simms, are a bit unforgivable. And its not like he was a shot fighter when he lost those fights either.

At Lightweight he was amazing and he had some very good wins, but again i don't feel it was anything amazing. Its the way he comeback like against Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, ETC. That made him special IMO.

But i always liked watching a prime Julio Cesar Chavez more, he was like an artist at work when he went to the body. Just amazing stuff to watch.

But as for your thread the fighters that would of beat Roberto Duran IMO are.

Lightweight:

Pernell Whitaker
Shane Mosley
Floyd Mayweather Jr

Jr Welterweight:

Meldrick Taylor

Welterweight:

Donald Curry
Felix Trinidad
Paul Williams

Jr Middleweight:

Mike McCallum
Julian Jackson
Terry Norris

Middleweight:

James Toney
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Gerald McClellan
Michael Nunn

And by the way i done present fighters or fighters around the time of Roberto Duran, not past fighters otherwise that would take all day to think of that many and work it all out.

ICB - That's a joke, you can't be serious and say that Duran struggled against natural boxers.

What makes your post lose all substance IMO is when you list all the above and say they would beat him.

Then you say you prefer to watch JC Chavez becuase he was an artist, yes, I too like Chavez, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, however, if you feel Duran was not an artist, then IMO Duran was one of the greatest artists ever, and alltough he was very agressive he was an amazing boxer, jab, rolling with the punches, slipping, body attack, head movement I could go on and on.

Agressive master and defensive master.

One of the greatest boxers/fighters of all time.

How many really good boxers did Roberto Duran beat ? because i can't think of many, and he did lose to boxers like Kirkland Laing, Wilfred Benitez, in pretty embarrassing fashion IMO.

I don't think its stupid by any means to say Roberto Duran, struggled with boxers when its clear based on history he does.

The whole point of this thread was to debate mythical match ups was it not ? so i don't see how my post loses any substance at all, when i gave good reason's why i thought all of the above would beat Roberto Duran.

I never said Roberto Duran wasn't great to watch, but all fans have different tastes. Like you might think Floyd Mayweather Jr isn't great to watch, when i do. Its all about tastes and i don't think anyone is wrong on a subject like that.

[ICB]

Floyd Mayweather Jr was injured with a bad shoulder in the 1st fight, in the 2nd fight when he was 100 percent. It was a clear win points wise for Floyd Mayweather Jr. And Floyd Mayweather Jr has improved since that fight.

I could easily comeback and say Kirkland Laing, Wilfred Benitez, all set the blue print on how to beat Roberto Duran. So why can't Floyd Mayweather Jr do it ?

i get the feelin u think mayweather would best duran. as good as mayweather is i just cant see it

We are talking about the best lightweight version of each. So most would agree that the Mayweather who beat Castillo the second time and Coralles was his best at that weight. Still, my argument stands. Duran was far superior to those guys and even in the second Castillo fight, Castillo still won rounds. 4 or 5. Floyd wouldnt be able to deal with Duran because, like Paddy was saying he had a great defence himself and the more Floyd threw at him the more Duran would be in a position himself to get in the pocket and land to the body and head. He was too much of a force for a fighter like Floyd who needs space to think. Im not sying Floyd wouldnt win any rounds, cause he probably would hold his own. They would just be close rounds that Duran would do the better work. I also think it would likely go the distance with a clear-cut Duran victory.

I don't think you can really tell because Roberto Duran never really met, a great boxer at Lightweight. Esteban De Jesus was very good, but again i don't think he was a great boxer.

I think Ken Buchanan was very good aswell, but even in that fight. There was controversy.

As i said in the other post how many fighters did Roberto Duran beat, who were fast speedy boxers ? counting out Sugar Ray Leonard because he brawled Roberto Duran in there 1st meeting. Because i really can't think of many.

Floyd Mayweather Jr had trouble against Jose Luis Castillo. In there first meeting because he was injured, i think he beat Jose Luis Castillo quite comfortably in the rematch by atleast 3 or 4 points.

I don't really see how that proves he would lose to Roberto Duran, i think Roberto Duran losing to a fast boxer like Kirkland Laing, or Roberto Duran losing to a defensive fighter in Wilfred Benitez. Actually proves my point more that Floyd Mayweather Jr would beat Roberto Duran.

And Roberto Duran was hardly that much past his prime, when he was beaten by those two fighters. Considering he went on too beat Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, Pipino Cuevas, and lets also not forget his performance in the Marvin Hagler fight.

[BoomBoom]

Duran had back to back loses to Liang and Benitez 4 years removed from lightweight, so I dont see your point. He beat DeJesus, Viret, Takayama, Ishimatzu, Lampkin, Mamby, Bizzarro, all good fighters he beat at lightweight. He beat every man he fought at lightweight. This doesnt prove that he would beat Floyd, it cant be proved, but I think he does based on his style. Duran wasnt a defensive master, but he had a great defence that is often forgot because he was such a great aggresive fighter.

[Kel]

I think Castillo basically set the blueprint on how to beat Mayweather imo, and Duran could followed it easily and then some. I think Duran was too much fighter for Mayweather at lightweight, too much will, too strong, and skill to match. Floyd wouldnt have the firepower to keep Duran off of him.

Castillo got such a raw deal in that fight and what's even worse is the second fight which he did lose was scored closer than the first! Mental!

[Scrap]

So Duran wasnt a Defensive Master, Im laugthing my Bollocks off

[The Wind]

I fully appreciate this thread is based on one’s opinion as ICB s kindly pointed out to me. So I will leave my emotions to one side and look at the facts.

When you are having these sorts of debates about who would have won between Duran and XYZ, then you have to look at the big picture. Either you can say a peak in shape come to fight Duran or a Bloated had to come down in weight lack of motivation to fight Duran because that’s how it was later on in his career you simply didn’t know which Duran was going to turn up, and That’s one of the many reasons and point that made this man/fighter so great.

Anyway I will base my opinion on a peak come to fight in shape Duran Vs. the proposed candidates.

First of all I believe Duran did well against any fighter, and I disagree with the comments made on this thread that he didn’t do well against Boxers, please allow me to explain………

When Duran was asked who’s the best boxer he has ever fought, his response was to the tune of that he felt some of the early fighters he fought from Panama were better boxers that some of the guys he fought after, but for a number of reasons those fighters didn’t make it later on.

Now the very knowledgeable fight fans will know of a certain Ernesto Marcel who Duran fought in 1970, Marcel was considered a fantastic boxer, great ring generalship and was considered a true threat to Duran. Duran beat Marcel in a 10 round TKO. Marcel then went on to beat the great Alexis Arguello in 1974 in Marcel’s last fight before he retired.

Other good Boxers that Duran beat are below:

Hiroshi Kobayashi

Angel Robinson Garcia – a Cuban who’s record was misleading somewhat.

Ken Buchanan – controversial end accepted, however Duran went to work on him from the off and would have won A UD anyway.

Esteban De Jesus x 2 –

Hector Thompson – Just watch the fight!!

Ray Lampkin – Again just watch the fight!!

Lou Bizzarro – he ran the whole night but eventually Duran caught up with and KO’d him unconscious.

Edwin Viruet x 2 – again this guy ran all night but Duran managed a clear UD twice.

Monroe Brooks – who had an amateur record of 109-5 which constitutes to a pretty decent Boxer

Joseph Nsubuga – at the time he was 15-1, if you watch this fight he was a Boxer as apposed to a brawler, after the devastating KO by Duran, Nsbuga only fought twice after that.

Sugar Ray Leonard – not accepting that he fought the wrong fight, Duran’s ability made him fight like that, just as Duran management shouldn’t have taken the rematch so soon, they should have given Duran ample time to get into shape.

Now someone posted on here that Duran beat every lightweight put in front of him and that is correct. IMO and even in the opinion of one Freddie Roach, Duran was the greatest Lightweight ever, so there is no one at Lightweight that would have beaten him.

When I posted before that Duran was a defensive master I stand by my comment, he had his own unique defence, not in the mould of Whitaker or even Mayweather Jr but the results were equally effective in terms of how much he got it/or didn’t get hit.

When Duran rolled and slipped and slides the punches, because his large Black Mane was flying all over the place, to a certain degree to the untrained eye that made it look that Duran was getting hit, but he perfected that art so much that he would evade punches by the smallest of margins, I’m talking millimetres, feel free to put on some of Duran’s fights when he was at his best and we have the technology now to really slow the action down and you will see exactly what I mean.

The above point I make was confirmed by one Angelo Dundee when he said, “don’t be fooled by this kid (referring to Duran) look at his face, he hasn’t got a mark on it, it’s clean because he hardly ever get’s hit”. So I would say he had a very good defence and a defensive master in his own unique way.

Someone posted that JC Chavez is a Mexican version of Duran and look what happened to Chavez vs. Whittaker, It’s hard for my emotions as a fight fan not to take over at this point, but I will restrain myself. First of all, Chavez was not at his best weight when he fought Whitaker, I can see a far more competivte fight for Chavez had that fight been at say Lightweight or even Light Welter, but anyway back on point. With the greatest respect to ‘El Grande Campeon’ and I rate Chavez very highly, he was no Duran, not even close IMO opinion and if you watch the documentary ‘Latin Legends’ to a certain degree Chavez himself concedes that fact by the comments he makes about Duran, very respectful and favourable indeed.

I would say that Duran had more than Chavez in every area of skill set.

Now please note my comments at the start of this post, those losses to Laing and Benitez were when Duran was unmotivated, I know that’s no excuse but fact is fact, had it been an in shape motivated Duran he would have beat and possibly KO’d both. Some of you may know this anyway but when Duran wanted to fight Benitez at around 1979/1980 Benitez wanted no part, they/he only fought Duran when they knew they could get him at the right time, i.e., unmotivated, sluggish and far to much partying, I mean all this is very well documented, Duran was so over weight before the Benitez fight that he was sent to an isolated island prison which held Murderer’s etc and Duran said that was the worst thing he could have done before the Benitez fight, therefore no one really holds those losses as a true reflection of his CV.

Continued straight on next post of mine below, sorry I got carried away

[The Wind]

Continued from my previuos post..


On a separate note, it’s a shame that Benitez and Duran didn’t fight at the right time as that could have been an absolute classic, a lot of Boxing experts that I speak to say that Duran would have been to much for Benitez, if you watch that fight again even commentating at ringside Sugar Ray Leonard said “that’s not the real Duran, he’s just going through the motions, that’s not the real Duran”.

On that list that ICB has put together, there is only one person I think would trouble Duran and that’s Williams just because of the height and reach difference, similar to Hearn’s, although Duran took the Hearn’s fight at very short notice and unfortunately was to busy spending $100.000k with a few women a couple of weeks before the fight. Now this is my personal opinion, had Duran been properly prepared for that fight I believe it would have interesting to see if Hearn’s could have taken Duran’s right hand over the top, but we’ll never know, anyway back on point.

I feel Williams may give Duran trouble at Welter or Middleweight, but then if Margarito could make a very close fight of it, you can’t help but think, again I want to reiterate what could have an in shape, fully prepared Duran have done?

We have come to except, even if it is reluctantly so, that bad decisions are made in Boxing, it’s part and parcel of this sport we all love, I can give you countless examples as I’m sure you all could as well (in fact that’s going to be my next topic, working title ‘Bad Decisions in Boxing’). Just to give you the bigger picture, I would like peeps to watch the first Camacho Vs. Duran fight, I mean Duran had no business fighting anymore but even at the age of 45 he beat Camacho who is a Boxer/Runner, Duran was patently stalking Camacho at his advanced age and he was hitting Camacho with that right hand all night long, that was a shocker of a decision, everyone who has watched the fight say’s Duran should have got a clear UD, he was up and motivated for that fight, so my point is even at that age of 45 look what he was able to do against a very good Boxer. He didn’t have his speed any longer, but he won that on pure ring smarts etc. (although he didn’t get the decision, I urge you to watch that fight if you have not seen it before)

So when we talk about the fighters mentioned on this thread I don’t think they, including Mayweather Jr would have been able to handle Duran. I would go as far as to say that Duran would have stopped Mayweather in the very late rounds 12 or 14/15 depending on the length of the fight.

You got to remember not only was Duran an amazing fighter/boxer but also he had one of the greatest corner men of all time in Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown, Arcel who also trained the great Lightweight Benny Leonard was once asked the question who he felt was the better lightweight fighter out of Benny Leonard and Roberto Duran, his response was to the tune of, if you are putting me on the spot then I go with Duran, he trained both, so again I reiterate at Lightweight there is no-one who could beat Duran, at Light Welter and Welterweight again an argument could be made here that he was in theory unbeatable, it’s only when he moved up in weight and took on some huge challenges that fighters today would not even dream of that he suffered a few defeats, but remember he was past his prime and above his natural fighting weight. So I think it’s unfair to even suggest a natural Lightweight up against a now Light Heavy in Hopkins, but I suppose that’s testament to Duran’s greatness that peeps are making dream matches like this one for example, but then I can’t really blame you because Duran beat Barkley for the Middleweight title who had just knocked out Hearn’s and he beat Moore who went on to beat Benitez.

Just thinking more about some of the bigger guys mentioned like Hopkins, …….and …. Let’s assume these are 12 rounder’s then we must consider that when Duran fought at Middleweight, he just so happened to take on a natural, one of the greatest Middleweight’s of all time, namely Hagler, in that fight Duran was beating Hagler on two of the three judges scorecards after 12 rounds, so he would have won a SD had it been a 12 rounder.

As good as Trinidad was and some would argue a modern great IMO he would not have been able to withstood Duran’s punch, work rate etc and would be KO’d later on in the fight.

There is no fighter that can Slip, Slide, Bob, Weave, Cut the Ring off, effective Jab, power in both hands, great head attack, great body attack, speed, roll with the punches, demonstrate will and even more will, desire all this in the space of a couple of moves and motions, imagine all that and some in front of you, that’s what he bought to the ring so bottom line at his peak unbeatable!!!!.

Paddy, so I agree with you, Duran is probably the greatest fighter ever in my eyes.

That’s just my opinion!