roberto MANOS DE PIEDRA duran

[paddy448]

I do know about Duran ballooning up in weight between fights and I did see the Leonard interview where Leonard said that they exploited that weakness, but still it's Duran's job to come prepared physically and mentally especially in a championship match against an elite talent like Leonard. IMO even if he came in prepared he still gets outbox by Leonard, because Leonard isn't going to fight Duran's fight again, he learned his lesson and the 2nd Sugar Ray is the better boxer.

The reason why I said Whittaker and Mayweather beats Duran at 135, 140, and 147 is this, Whittaker and Mayweather are not just only elite boxers but also elite defensive masterminds and Duran had trouble with elite boxers. Whittaker and Mayweather aren't going to be drawn into a brawl, that's not their style. They will outbox him and counterpunch and use their footspeed, fast hands, and quick reflexes to their advantages. So I asked myself this question, Can Duran outbox them? My answer is no.

And if there was a time machine where a 29 year old Duran is transported into the 40s and fought a prime Sugar Ray at welterweight, I'm sorry Duran gets outbox in an UD win for SRR or gets knocked out, visions of what Hearns did to Duran but at welterweight with the original Sugar Ray comes to mind, I dont' think that fight will be close. So I don't buy the "In theory Duran could be virtually unbeatable at welterweight" thing that the other poster was talking about. Sure maybe he can beat a Tito Trinidad at welter weight, but like I said might as well use the best and speculate how Duran would have done against SRR.

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

i agree with u on whitaker, he was something else. and where my statement saying duran would eat him at 135 was a bit strong, i do think duran beats him still

[paddy448]

I do know about Duran ballooning up in weight between fights and I did see the Leonard interview where Leonard said that they exploited that weakness, but still it's Duran's job to come prepared physically and mentally especially in a championship match against an elite talent like Leonard. IMO even if he came in prepared he still gets outbox by Leonard, because Leonard isn't going to fight Duran's fight again, he learned his lesson and the 2nd Sugar Ray is the better boxer.

The reason why I said Whittaker and Mayweather beats Duran at 135, 140, and 147 is this, Whittaker and Mayweather are not just only elite boxers but also elite defensive masterminds and Duran had trouble with elite boxers. Whittaker and Mayweather aren't going to be drawn into a brawl, that's not their style. They will outbox him and counterpunch and use their footspeed, fast hands, and quick reflexes to their advantages. So I asked myself this question, Can Duran outbox them? My answer is no.

And if there was a time machine where a 29 year old Duran is transported into the 40s and fought a prime Sugar Ray at welterweight, I'm sorry Duran gets outbox in an UD win for SRR or gets knocked out, visions of what Hearns did to Duran but at welterweight with the original Sugar Ray comes to mind, I dont' think that fight will be close. So I don't buy the "In theory Duran could be virtually unbeatable at welterweight" thing that the other poster was talking about. Sure maybe he can beat a Tito Trinidad at welter weight, but like I said might as well use the best and speculate how Duran would have done against SRR.

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

oh yeah icb durans record is better than whitakers at lightweight, duran fought fighters like ernesto marcel,hiroshi kobayashi,ken buchanan,esteban de jesus x3,guts ishimatsu,pedro mendoza,benny huertas,ray lampkin and so on i stongly disagree with u on whitakers lightweight reign being better than durans

[ICB]

witaker and mayweather might be better boxers than duran not by much, but duran is a much better fighter, at 135 duran eats these two, 140 and 147 i still thinks he beats them, u have to admit in any weight to say they would make duran look foolish is over the top. if you havent i urge u to check some of his lightweight fights out. and u talk about how its durans job to come in fully prepared i understand that, but he still wasnt at his best, im not trying to say leonard couldnt beat duran when hes fully prepared im just sayin duran was a shadow of himself that night. and ur saying about how leonard didnt fight his fight the first time yeah its because duran didnt let him,he didnt give leonard room to breath that fight. duran won fair and square. as for the sugar ray robinson fight i cant really argue with u on that one, although no one nos for sure.

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

oh yeah icb durans record is better than whitakers at lightweight, duran fought fighters like ernesto marcel,hiroshi kobayashi,ken buchanan,esteban de jesus x3,guts ishimatsu,pedro mendoza,benny huertas,ray lampkin and so on i stongly disagree with u on whitakers lightweight reign being better than durans

I never said Pernell Whitaker has a better Lightweight reign, he couldn't have because he wasn't there long enough. But Azumah Nelson is a better fighter than anything on Robert Duran's Lightweight resume.

[OumaFan]

ok this may seem like a random thread, but duran for me is the greatest fighter i have ever seen, sure there have been better boxers but im talking about a fighter,can anyone agree with me on the difference between a boxer and a fighter, ive brought this thread up because i just watched one of my many duran dvds again and i cant help thinking of the possible dream matchups i would love to see him in against other great fighters that wasnt around in his time, may i ask u guys for fights ud love to see him in or just comments on what u loved about this great warrior, how would u see him fairing in fights today agaisnt the top guys from lightweight to middleweight, e.g marquez, mayweather, pacman,cotto,mosley, margarito,cambell,guzman,prime de la hoya, cant think of any middleweights worth mentioning to be honest and from yester year the great chavez, sweat pea, hawk time pryor, prime tyszu, the list goes on and on.i need to stop or ill never finish this thread

Roberto Duran was a great fighter but he did struggle against boxers, losses to Kirkland Laing, Robbie Simms, are a bit unforgivable. And its not like he was a shot fighter when he lost those fights either.

At Lightweight he was amazing and he had some very good wins, but again i don't feel it was anything amazing. Its the way he comeback like against Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, ETC. That made him special IMO.

But i always liked watching a prime Julio Cesar Chavez more, he was like an artist at work when he went to the body. Just amazing stuff to watch.

But as for your thread the fighters that would of beat Roberto Duran IMO are.

Lightweight:

Pernell Whitaker-I might Pea a slight edge but it could go either way.
Shane Mosley-Mosley is faster but Duran is the better overall fighter, better boxing skills. Duran.
Floyd Mayweather Jr-This could really go either way, I would probably think Duran 6 out of 10 times. Its a hard call.

Jr Welterweight:

Meldrick Taylor-Duran. He's just a bit too good. A great fight but Duran would find a home for the right hand and grind Meldrick down a bit. I'm not even thinking so much of the JCC comparison but if you did Duran's just pretty much better at everything.

Welterweight:

Donald Curry-Duran I guess. But its an interesting fight that Curry could definitely win.
Felix Trinidad-Duran. Trinidad's bigger but Duran's just better, right hand all night.
Paul Williams-I don't know, I want to see more. He's a physical freak who somehow makes welter.

Jr Middleweight:

Mike McCallum-Would favor McCallum.
Julian Jackson-Duran. He could get caught early but Jackson was chinny and Duran was the far better boxer.
Terry Norris-This could go a couple different ways. I think Duran has enough power to hurt Norris and get him out. But if Norris fought a very smart fight it could be his.

Middleweight:

James Toney
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Gerald McClellan
Michael Nunn

And by the way i done present fighters or fighters around the time of Roberto Duran, not past fighters otherwise that would take all day to think of that many and work it all out.

some of these aren't easy picks, I think you tend to underrate Duran because of things like the Laing fight but to each his own.

I'd favor all of the middles over Duran. No shame in that, there's a few all time greats in here and there's the size difference.

[OumaFan]

I'd probably slightly favor Norris. I don't know. He could win but if he got macho it could go wrong for him.

I'm pretty set on Meldrick and to an extent Shane. Pea and Floyd are hard. I just think he's better than Tito.

You could take the middles farther, Monzon would beat him, etc. He's not beating an all time great middle.

[Mr140]

Honestly I not sure he could of won if against Leonard if Leonard choose to box some people say he couldn't do it first time but i disagree.

[paddy448]

Honestly I not sure he could of won if against Leonard if Leonard choose to box some people say he couldn't do it first time but i disagree.

i think he tried the first time but credit to duran he didnt let leonard fight his fight, he was all over him

[paddy448]

I'd probably slightly favor Norris. I don't know. He could win but if he got macho it could go wrong for him.

I'm pretty set on Meldrick and to an extent Shane. Pea and Floyd are hard. I just think he's better than Tito.

You could take the middles farther, Monzon would beat him, etc. He's not beating an all time great middle.

he came very close with hagler. think he was ahead after 12, shame it was a 15 rounder

[paddy448]

I don't think you have seen a prime Pernell Whitaker at Lightweight, he was amazing at that weightclass. and he beat some very good fighters at that weightclass like Azumah Nelson, Jose Luis Ramirez x2, Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather, Jorge Paez.

And he hardly even got hit while fighting those fighters aswell, and he could also fight at a much higher pace at Lightweight. while being amazingly hard to hit, sometimes he could throw up to 90 punches a round when he had to.

Pernell Whitaker would outbox Roberto Duran at Lightweight, no doubt in my mind. And "The Wind" can tell me about all these cuban boxers Roberto Duran beat at Lightweight, but i can safely say there not even close to Pernell Whitaker.

oh yeah icb durans record is better than whitakers at lightweight, duran fought fighters like ernesto marcel,hiroshi kobayashi,ken buchanan,esteban de jesus x3,guts ishimatsu,pedro mendoza,benny huertas,ray lampkin and so on i stongly disagree with u on whitakers lightweight reign being better than durans

I never said Pernell Whitaker has a better Lightweight reign, he couldn't have because he wasn't there long enough. But Azumah Nelson is a better fighter than anything on Robert Duran's Lightweight resume.

maybe

[OumaFan]

Hagler fought a bit of a strange fight against Duran but yeah still that was a very good performance by him

[CGM]

Honestly I not sure he could of won if against Leonard if Leonard choose to box some people say he couldn't do it first time but i disagree.

i think he tried the first time but credit to duran he didnt let leonard fight his fight, he was all over him

It's well known that Leonard chose to fight Duran's style of fight in the first matchup, to prove a point. Obviously Leonard lost. But Leonard did make a very good fight out of it.

[johnsebastianmiran]

I recently participated in another post about Duran and I want to point out that Duran was becoming beatable as he got older and that is when his career started to get strenuous. In His prime had he moved up sooner he had the uncanny ability to adjust. Most of his big wins were in the lightweight class. His trainer legendary Freddy Brown said that the most difficult thing he ever had to do was negotiate Duran's training regimen. Ray Arcel said that he was lucky get Roberto to train for the periods of training for his big fights he got from three to eight weeks. Duran had natural talent and he was old school. You could not hit him with a solid blow because he rolled with the punches. Pernell Whittaker would be surprised and the Benitez fight would have been different if Roberto had trained, I like Meldrick Taylor but Duran was a savage at anything near 135 pounds and even when he wasn't in shape he adjusted and beat you. Remember when he started to lose it was after age thirty and he fought close to 100 fights and he did fight all time greats, win or lose age forgives no one.

[johnsebastianmiran]

Roberto Duran was also a very underrated boxer and he got around Leonard not by mugging him but controlling the tempo of the fight.

[generalbulldog]

I'd probably slightly favor Norris. I don't know. He could win but if he got macho it could go wrong for him.

I'm pretty set on Meldrick and to an extent Shane. Pea and Floyd are hard. I just think he's better than Tito.

You could take the middles farther, Monzon would beat him, etc. He's not beating an all time great middle.

he came very close with hagler. think he was ahead after 12, shame it was a 15 rounder

I disagree on this. IF this was a 12 rounder, Hagler turns it up from rounds 10-12 instead of 13-15. In Hagler's prime, the so called championship rounds he would turn up the intensity as he did against Duran in their fight.

He knew when the rounds are close and needed to turn it up.

[CGM]

...

At Lightweight he was amazing and he had some very good wins, but again i don't feel it was anything amazing. Its the way he comeback like against Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, ETC. That made him special IMO.

...

Yeah, it was great the way he would roll back the clock every once in a while. I saw the Moore fight live on the tube, I was for Duran all the way, but at the same time it was a bit of a downer cause you knew after a couple of rounds that Moore was fucked with that eye injury, I'm surprised they let it go as long as they did. Duran smelled blood and was all over him.