Boxing and MMA

[superboxer]

But whatever, it will never happen anyway.

[CGM]

hmm interesting thread.

I have a hard time taking MMA seriously. Sure it is real, and it requires strength and skill, but it doesn't really seem like sport to me. It's closer to streetfighting than it is to boxing, But I guess that's one reason why people like it.

All the tough guy posturing and chest beating and howling at the moon shit in UFC is a sad joke really, doesn't do a thing for me. That aspect of it is a step towards WWF.

Anyways, here's to hoping boxing sees a better future. I don't think the alphabet soup thing is a prime concern, rather it is a lack of really big names, and also the shoddy decisions.

[Youngblood]

Dude you're off your tree. We are building fighters bodies, stronger, faster, more explosive every day. If you can't see how it would be a bad idea to all of a sudden throw on 4 oz gloves and have at it, then there is really no point in speaking with you on the issue.

I can see how it would be a bad idea and I look at it from how it would be a good idea too and compare the advantages and disadvantages. The safety issue is more hypothetical than anything, but I think we can all agree that a more sensible(i.e. lighter) glove for the lower weights would stop the slowing and watering down of punches and add more entertainment and excitement to the fights.

Boxing isn't MMA, with a combination of various techniques and less rounds and time spent. We try to hurt the other opponent, largely by causing them brain damage by consistantly attacking their head. And succeeding fairly well without the help of less protection.

Not well enough in the lower weights in my opinion. The lower weights are handicapped by the glove size and it is evident in the fights. There are exceptions, like Roman Gonzalez(who would be more of a monster without the handicap) but for the most part the fights are lacking in damage, impact and entertainment. I remember Ruben Olivares remarked in one of his fights(I cannot remember which one) that if they had been using 6oz instead of 8oz he would have lost, and sure enough I watched the fight and after only a round or two it was like they were both punching underwater with their slow weighed down punches. Jimmy Wilde complained about 8oz gloves as opposed to the usual 4oz too when he was in America.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hqlATnKsfE

If you want to look at primary examples of where lighter gloves might benefit boxing, I suggest you atleast look at this thread. Somewhere in it is a link to the show, the complete story, with fight.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ast-night.html

I understand what you are saying, in regards to making it more attractive for the fan, and you are probably right, but also, I think people would line up around the block to see folks murdered on live tv just for shit n giggles. It is our part of our ugly human nature. It's why we have rules and regulations for such things. To protect us from ourselves.

[nakeddrunkpunch]

hmm interesting thread.

I have a hard time taking MMA seriously. Sure it is real, and it requires strength and skill, but it doesn't really seem like sport to me. It's closer to streetfighting than it is to boxing, But I guess that's one reason why people like it.

All the tough guy posturing and chest beating and howling at the moon shit in UFC is a sad joke really, doesn't do a thing for me. That aspect of it is a step towards WWF.

Anyways, here's to hoping boxing sees a better future. I don't think the alphabet soup thing is a prime concern, rather it is a lack of really big names, and also the shoddy decisions.

You could create bigger names by making fights people want to see happen. i guess i'm not really looking at the big picture though, it would take a lot for fighters and promoters to agree to terms with on another. I think the people behind the politics of boxing need to change the way the look at things and become a little more humbled. They could make a lot more money working with eachother by gaining public interest through tantilizing match making. i know this is easier said than done but at times the politics of boxing drive me crazy, there are so many obstacles in the way of making a mega fight.

[superboxer]

Dude you're off your tree. We are building fighters bodies, stronger, faster, more explosive every day. If you can't see how it would be a bad idea to all of a sudden throw on 4 oz gloves and have at it, then there is really no point in speaking with you on the issue.

I can see how it would be a bad idea and I look at it from how it would be a good idea too and compare the advantages and disadvantages. The safety issue is more hypothetical than anything, but I think we can all agree that a more sensible(i.e. lighter) glove for the lower weights would stop the slowing and watering down of punches and add more entertainment and excitement to the fights.

Boxing isn't MMA, with a combination of various techniques and less rounds and time spent. We try to hurt the other opponent, largely by causing them brain damage by consistantly attacking their head. And succeeding fairly well without the help of less protection.

Not well enough in the lower weights in my opinion. The lower weights are handicapped by the glove size and it is evident in the fights. There are exceptions, like Roman Gonzalez(who would be more of a monster without the handicap) but for the most part the fights are lacking in damage, impact and entertainment. I remember Ruben Olivares remarked in one of his fights(I cannot remember which one) that if they had been using 6oz instead of 8oz he would have lost, and sure enough I watched the fight and after only a round or two it was like they were both punching underwater with their slow weighed down punches. Jimmy Wilde complained about 8oz gloves as opposed to the usual 4oz too when he was in America.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hqlATnKsfE

If you want to look at primary examples of where lighter gloves might benefit boxing, I suggest you atleast look at this thread. Somewhere in it is a link to the show, the complete story, with fight.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ast-night.html

I understand what you are saying, in regards to making it more attractive for the fan, and you are probably right, but also, I think people would line up around the block to see folks murdered on live tv just for shit n giggles. It is our part of our ugly human nature. It's why we have rules and regulations for such things. To protect us from ourselves.

That was interesting, apparently Trinidad did the same thing a few times but never proven. However Resto also used hardened plaster in his gloves. I'm watching the Resto vs Collins fight now(the video quality is bad ), is there any more fights you can mention where that happened?

[denilson200]

If MMA fighters are so great, then why don't they come over to boxing and make millions ? If you put a Klitschko in a cage he would still be VERY competitive, even against the best MMA fighters. But if you put Fedor in a boxing ring he would get outclassed by an ordinary fighter e.g Danny Williams or Audley Harrison. That's the difference with MMA. Boxing takes SKILLS. The local bouncer at your nightclub could probably make it as a MMA fighters. This is no disrespect to MMA but to me.

MMA is going to go the same way as Kick-Boxing did. Remember that ? 10 years ago Kick-Boxing was meant to be the next big thing. Now you don't even hear of it. MMA fighters have no chin, their bodies are a joke, they only have two week training camps, the fights rarely go the distance and they never seem to remain unbeaten. Boxers have to run up and down hills, spar, watch their weight and condition their body to take pain.

Fighters have DIED in a boxing ring or been seriously brain damaged. Listen to all you MMA fans come and talk to me when you can show me a Gerald McClellan or a Michael Watson of MMA. I'm sick and tired of these MMA fans running around here boasting about how hard and tough their sport is !!*But...but...but...if a boxer fought an MMA fighter in a street fight..the MMA fighter would win* ..that’s usually the argument made by supporters of MMA. Well it depends on the quality of the participants. Ok then, best Vs best. Peak Tyson Vs Peak Fedor in a street fight ? Who would win ? For me Tyson all day. Also if the MMA did beat the boxer in a street fight. It only would be because he stopped the boxer guy from fighting by taking him down. It's a bit like me saying I'm a faster runner than a star athlete, then why the gun goes off, get a baseball bat and break his legs.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Im not really up on glove sizes and what not but i do know that there was a bit of a stink when it was decided that the 140 division (i think ) should use bigger gloves. Gloves that were though to be to big for that division.... (Im sorry for not being able to verify this, but i definitely read it somewhere fairly recently)

At the end of the day, there will be loads more ''knee-jerk'' decisions relating to boxers safety and ultimately the glove size will always go up, never down. Which is a real shame.

IMO the gloves ARE too big in some of the smaller/ tiny divisions.

[Andre]

Interesting thoughts;



Im just wondering out aloud here:

Do the Ufc dudes claim that their smaller gloves do more damage faster so the fights are over quicker when done through a knockout and therefore less damaging than boxing?

They havent lost anyone in the octagon as yet have they?

You would think getting bashed with your head already on the floor would do much more overall damage.

[ryanman]

If MMA fighters are so great, then why don't they come over to boxing and make millions ? If you put a Klitschko in a cage he would still be VERY competitive, even against the best MMA fighters. But if you put Fedor in a boxing ring he would get outclassed by an ordinary fighter e.g Danny Williams or Audley Harrison. That's the difference with MMA. Boxing takes SKILLS. The local bouncer at your nightclub could probably make it as a MMA fighters. This is no disrespect to MMA but to me.

MMA is going to go the same way as Kick-Boxing did. Remember that ? 10 years ago Kick-Boxing was meant to be the next big thing. Now you don't even hear of it. MMA fighters have no chin, their bodies are a joke, they only have two week training camps, the fights rarely go the distance and they never seem to remain unbeaten. Boxers have to run up and down hills, spar, watch their weight and condition their body to take pain.

Fighters have DIED in a boxing ring or been seriously brain damaged. Listen to all you MMA fans come and talk to me when you can show me a Gerald McClellan or a Michael Watson of MMA. I'm sick and tired of these MMA fans running around here boasting about how hard and tough their sport is !!*But...but...but...if a boxer fought an MMA fighter in a street fight..the MMA fighter would win* ..that’s usually the argument made by supporters of MMA. Well it depends on the quality of the participants. Ok then, best Vs best. Peak Tyson Vs Peak Fedor in a street fight ? Who would win ? For me Tyson all day. Also if the MMA did beat the boxer in a street fight. It only would be because he stopped the boxer guy from fighting by taking him down. It's a bit like me saying I'm a faster runner than a star athlete, then why the gun goes off, get a baseball bat and break his legs.

As boxing fans, we shouldn't really be using things like this as a boast.

[jamiebhoy]

If MMA fighters are so great, then why don't they come over to boxing and make millions ? If you put a Klitschko in a cage he would still be VERY competitive, even against the best MMA fighters. But if you put Fedor in a boxing ring he would get outclassed by an ordinary fighter e.g Danny Williams or Audley Harrison. That's the difference with MMA. Boxing takes SKILLS. The local bouncer at your nightclub could probably make it as a MMA fighters. This is no disrespect to MMA but to me.

MMA is going to go the same way as Kick-Boxing did. Remember that ? 10 years ago Kick-Boxing was meant to be the next big thing. Now you don't even hear of it. MMA fighters have no chin, their bodies are a joke, they only have two week training camps, the fights rarely go the distance and they never seem to remain unbeaten. Boxers have to run up and down hills, spar, watch their weight and condition their body to take pain.

Fighters have DIED in a boxing ring or been seriously brain damaged. Listen to all you MMA fans come and talk to me when you can show me a Gerald McClellan or a Michael Watson of MMA. I'm sick and tired of these MMA fans running around here boasting about how hard and tough their sport is !!*But...but...but...if a boxer fought an MMA fighter in a street fight..the MMA fighter would win* ..that’s usually the argument made by supporters of MMA. Well it depends on the quality of the participants. Ok then, best Vs best. Peak Tyson Vs Peak Fedor in a street fight ? Who would win ? For me Tyson all day. Also if the MMA did beat the boxer in a street fight. It only would be because he stopped the boxer guy from fighting by taking him down. It's a bit like me saying I'm a faster runner than a star athlete, then why the gun goes off, get a baseball bat and break his legs.

As boxing fans, we shouldn't really be using things like this as a boast.

Totally agree mate, these examples should not be used as bragging rights. That then makes boxing fans sound like they are brain dead and the more blood thirsty of the groups.

As for street fights etc, yes some boxers would hold their own because they have been involved in that in the past and are generally street wise and brawlers.

However the argument is lost on a street fight when it's suggested that the MMA fighter wimps out by taking the fight down to the ground. Isn't the whole point in a street fight to win and by any means, otherwise it's a boxing match which then makes it unfair.

As for MMA fighters being out of shape, well that again doesn't hold water.Some are out of shape looking whilst others are exceptional as far as physique goes.There have been some top boxers who don't posses the ideal beach body but you still wouldn't want to cross them !

[Youngblood]

lol the ol' street fight boxer mma arguement. yea, which ever one is more willing to bite the others nose off whilst sticking him with a broken jagged bottle is prob. gonna win. Then 50 boots to the face while he's out for safe measure.

[JazMerkin]

lol the ol' street fight boxer mma arguement. yea, which ever one is more willing to bite the others nose off whilst sticking him with a broken jagged bottle is prob. gonna win. Then 50 boots to the face while he's out for safe measure.

So Bernard Hopkins then

[Youngblood]

lol the ol' street fight boxer mma arguement. yea, which ever one is more willing to bite the others nose off whilst sticking him with a broken jagged bottle is prob. gonna win. Then 50 boots to the face while he's out for safe measure.

So Bernard Hopkins then

naw. Bernard got it going on, but this machine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyzwwwiBhxE

[jamiebhoy]

Interesting thoughts;



Im just wondering out aloud here:

Do the Ufc dudes claim that their smaller gloves do more damage faster so the fights are over quicker when done through a knockout and therefore less damaging than boxing?

They havent lost anyone in the octagon as yet have they?

You would think getting bashed with your head already on the floor would do much more overall damage.

maybe more damage to the actual jaw,skull etc but not so much to the brain as it's not being rattled the same way it would in boxing ?? Not sure.

[JazMerkin]

lol the ol' street fight boxer mma arguement. yea, which ever one is more willing to bite the others nose off whilst sticking him with a broken jagged bottle is prob. gonna win. Then 50 boots to the face while he's out for safe measure.

So Bernard Hopkins then

naw. Bernard got it going on, but this machine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyzwwwiBhxE

That's jokes, shame it's all obviously fake. That bitch is a behemoth.