Looks like Cotto vs Margarito is on for December 3rd

[FinitoElDinamita]

Margo will end Cotto's career with this rematch. He has Cotto's number.

War Margarito!!!!

[Andre]

Cottos got a bigger mental hurdle to get over than Marg, other than that the playing field is more even this time around.
I think it goes the distance with Cotto with much more damage but gets the nod anyway.

[Pavlik]

Cottos got a bigger mental hurdle to get over than Marg, other than that the playing field is more even this time around.
I think it goes the distance with Cotto with much more damage but gets the nod anyway.

i had the same thing in mind, Miguel might need to retire after this fight

[ninjaspy3]

When mosley fought margarito, one thing that helped was that he tied margarito up often. Cotto should try to do that sometimes as well to take some pressure off.

[No Contest]

Wasn't Margarito just saying he might not ever fight again because the eye? This to me looks like a setup fight for another Pac-Cotto(all 3 Arum fighters). I would not be surprised to see Margarito stopped because of the eye. Throw in Cotto's training with Steward the master of not taking chances, and Cotto either gets the eye stoppage or wins a decision. If he doesn't back himself into the ropes or a corner, he should win easily. He lost the first fight because he tried to fight with Margarito too much, if he does like he did to Mayorga and not fight inside then he greatly increases his chances.

[Rantcatrat]

Now I do think he had loaded gloves vs Cotto. If you watch how Cotto's face and nose in particular just seemed to get demolished by not that many punches I think there is some evidence pointing towards Margs gloves being loaded. Especially when you take into account the fact that Marg isn't a huge puncher too. Anyway that cannot be proven so there is no point really getting into it.

Agree that Marg is great at playing the bad guy but being a complete dick head certainly helps in that department . As for Cotto being boring I assume you mean outside the ring?

This year could well be turning into a good one for boxing, we have 2 meaningful fights at HW signed and ready to go (all being well), Pac is finally giving Marquez his chance to settle the score although slightly out of his comfort zone, Floyd is making a comeback against a fast young southpaw which is hopefully a sign that the Pac fight may be in sight providing they both come through, and now this controversial fight can be re fought and Cotto can get his revenge if he does indeed have what it takes. I think he will have too much for Marg and I see him outpointing him comfortably.

Margarito landed almost 250 power punches in that fight. Pacquiao landed a similar number & did a similar job on his face. I don't know about him not being a big puncher. Apart from early in his career when he was a teenager, he's stopped the majority. Post-fight he didn't behave in a way a man with loaded wraps would imo. Anyway I posted this in another thread, but it pretty much says why I feel he probably didn't in the Cotto fight.

I came to it from the angle that people kept asking why he would do it for the first time against Mosley. I'll say that I don't believe it was the first time he or his team attempted it. However, the only occasion previously that I strongly believe he may have done it was the Lujan fight, as on that occasion there was horrific damage done by punches which he seemingly wasn't putting all his force into & at the end he was in no rush to take off those gloves & when he did was heavily surrounded at all times by his team.

Anyway back to the Mosley question. If that was the first time there were a number of reasons why that might be. He had apparently been partying plenty after beating Cotto & had had real trouble with the weight & was reportedly really struggling in sparring. Add to that, Mosley still had his iron chin (which I can almost pinpoint the moment it cracked but that's another thread). Capetillo is a boxing man & would've looked at all that & thought 'shit, there could be real problems here'. He would've looked at Mosley's reach & foreseen real issues getting him to break in the way they did Cotto. Cotto let's bear in mind had chin issues long before Margs & as high as everyone was on him, the second half of the Mosley fight showed he had issues with stamina & output. Those would be exactly the kind of issues that Margarito with his chin, workrate & stamina would be able to test. I think there would be in fact far more reason to load for Mosley given the surrounding factors than otherwise.

As I said, I believe he maybe did do it before that, but only on occasions where he could get away with it and/or really needed to. A smaller venue show like the Lujan one coming off the back of the Santos loss or on 'home' turf in Cali would seem to fit that more than in Las Vegas against the guy who at that point seemed to be groomed as Top Rank's new poster boy & was being lined up to fight De La Hoya with a win. We'll never know, but let's face it Cotto looked much the same after Pacquiao landed a similar number of punches on it. Although don't go thinking I'm an apologist. I believe Margarito & Capetillo should've been banned for life just like Resto & Lewis were.

Anyway back to the other points, yeah I meant Cotto being boring as a person, obviously not as a fighter & yeah Margarito is a grade A cunt, so he is brilliant at playing the baddie.

For one, this fight just isn't that significant. Cotto and Margarito are on the slide. I'm not all that interested in it other than for the significance of Cotto exacting revenge.

Jaz, I don't think we are too far apart because we agree that there is no way to know one way or the other when Margarito used cement. However, the difference in our opinions is that I don't give Margarito the benefit of the doubt in the Cotto fight and you do. I feel that because he was caught loading his gloves in the very next fight against a seemingly much easier opponent, it makes sense he would have used them for a tougher opponent. To me the important thing to remember is that the use of cement in the Mosley fight taints every single one of Margarito's fights, every single one. Even if he had a HOF career, which he doesn't, now he shouldn't be accepted because every single one of his victories is tainted. There is just no way to know when he did it in the past. All we know for sure is about the fight against Mosley and the fights after Mosley.

A couple things have struck me. After looking so good against Cotto in a fight where we can't be sure if he was fighting with cement or not, he looked so poor against Mosley when we know he didn't have the cement in his gloves. From looking world class to utter crap in one fight? At the very least, it is odd, isn't it? Certainly, styles make fights, but the difference is just very, very stark. Now, there is an argument that the wrapping thing before the Mosley fight took him out of his element, but it just could easily have been that mentally he didn't have the confidence he had against Cotto because he was aware that he didn't have the help of the cement. Also, consider the trajectory of Margarito's career since he's had to fight cement-free. He's lost one fight against the only other top fighter he's faced and he looked very flat against a journeyman. Consider the trajectory of Shane Mosley's career after beating Margarito. Was Shane that good to destroy someone who had looked so indestructible previously? Mosley's next three fights definitely don't speak to it. Coming off a monstrous win over Margarito, Mosley went on to look poor, almost shot.

Also, the fight against Mosley was huge so there was no reason to believe the scrutiny would be any different in that fight than it was in the Cotto or Cintron fights. Why would Capitillo think the Mosley fight required any extra illegal help, but the Cotto fight didn't warrant it? Recall that Cotto beat Mosley previously. Cotto was groomed as the Top Rank Poster Boy for a reason - he beat everybody. He had a high knockout percentage. Paul Williams beat Margarito. It makes that to keep Margarito's upward movement continuing, there was a lot of pressure to beat Cotto. That pressure could have been the reason why they would have used cement. The odds heavily favored Margarito prior to the fight with Mosley whereas in the Cotto fight, he was actually a slight underdog. Most pundits thought that Mosley was shot and thought it was a bad career move that he was getting in the ring with such a killer in Margarito. Why wouldn't Capatillo he confident that this was an easy tune-up fight before ODLH or PBF especially coming off a career-defining victory over Cotto even if he wasn't looking sharp in training. At that point, he was considered a beast of epic proportions. His doubt could stem from that fact that the win over Cotto wasn't a clean win.

To your point about Cotto's face looking just as bad after the Pacquiao fight, well, the response is that's because Margarito permanently destroyed Cotto's punch resistance. The better comparison is to look at whether Cotto's face had looked comparable prior to the Margarito fight. I don't remember seeing Cotto's face that torn up before the Margarito fight. For example, it wasn't close to as torn up after Cotto's fight with Shane Mosley. It's true that Cotto had stamina and chin issues, but his face never was as torn up as that. I'm not saying though that outward appearance is dispositive. It can be argued both ways.

Bottom line: Margarito's whole career is tainted because of that incident. He and Capatillo are cheats. I'm glad Pacquiao almost retired him.

[Nameless]

I am just gutted that Margarito can box again and make hundred of thousand of dollars after he got caught hands in the ring with weapons in his knuckles.
On another note, I belive that Cotto with Steward in his corner has what it takes to beat Margarito, especially I am absolutely not convinced that the Pacman's steamroll didn't play an important toll on his body for good. I REALLY hope I am right on that one.

[brocktonblockbust]

this is more of a personal bone to pick. i dont see the great significance on the division that these 2 war-torn stars are going at it again other than that it is a personal bone to pick. I dont think Cotto will be able to handle the pressure this time.

This will be a watered-down version of their 1st fight. Kinda like Foreman/Frazier II.

Margarito KO of Cotto after 5 boring rounds, then suddenly a 3-punch combo and its over.

[ninjaspy3]

Hmmmm...

Cotto weathered quite a bit of the storm against Pacquiao without giving up. Almost made it to the end.

He took a few tough shots off Mayorga and handled it pretty well.

And with the possibility that Margarito is not what he once was, meaning possibly less punch resistance, and the fact that maybe he had loaded gloves last time ()

I think Cotto could see it to the end this time and probably even win it. Once again I will state that I think he should follow a bit of Mosley's example, and tie Margarito up on the inside.

[JazMerkin]

For one, this fight just isn't that significant. Cotto and Margarito are on the slide. I'm not all that interested in it other than for the significance of Cotto exacting revenge.

Jaz, I don't think we are too far apart because we agree that there is no way to know one way or the other when Margarito used cement. However, the difference in our opinions is that I don't give Margarito the benefit of the doubt in the Cotto fight and you do. I feel that because he was caught loading his gloves in the very next fight against a seemingly much easier opponent, it makes sense he would have used them for a tougher opponent. To me the important thing to remember is that the use of cement in the Mosley fight taints every single one of Margarito's fights, every single one. Even if he had a HOF career, which he doesn't, now he shouldn't be accepted because every single one of his victories is tainted. There is just no way to know when he did it in the past. All we know for sure is about the fight against Mosley and the fights after Mosley.

A couple things have struck me. After looking so good against Cotto in a fight where we can't be sure if he was fighting with cement or not, he looked so poor against Mosley when we know he didn't have the cement in his gloves. From looking world class to utter crap in one fight? At the very least, it is odd, isn't it? Certainly, styles make fights, but the difference is just very, very stark. Now, there is an argument that the wrapping thing before the Mosley fight took him out of his element, but it just could easily have been that mentally he didn't have the confidence he had against Cotto because he was aware that he didn't have the help of the cement. Also, consider the trajectory of Margarito's career since he's had to fight cement-free. He's lost one fight against the only other top fighter he's faced and he looked very flat against a journeyman. Consider the trajectory of Shane Mosley's career after beating Margarito. Was Shane that good to destroy someone who had looked so indestructible previously? Mosley's next three fights definitely don't speak to it. Coming off a monstrous win over Margarito, Mosley went on to look poor, almost shot.

Also, the fight against Mosley was huge so there was no reason to believe the scrutiny would be any different in that fight than it was in the Cotto or Cintron fights. Why would Capitillo think the Mosley fight required any extra illegal help, but the Cotto fight didn't warrant it? Recall that Cotto beat Mosley previously. Cotto was groomed as the Top Rank Poster Boy for a reason - he beat everybody. He had a high knockout percentage. Paul Williams beat Margarito. It makes that to keep Margarito's upward movement continuing, there was a lot of pressure to beat Cotto. That pressure could have been the reason why they would have used cement. The odds heavily favored Margarito prior to the fight with Mosley whereas in the Cotto fight, he was actually a slight underdog. Most pundits thought that Mosley was shot and thought it was a bad career move that he was getting in the ring with such a killer in Margarito. Why wouldn't Capatillo he confident that this was an easy tune-up fight before ODLH or PBF especially coming off a career-defining victory over Cotto even if he wasn't looking sharp in training. At that point, he was considered a beast of epic proportions. His doubt could stem from that fact that the win over Cotto wasn't a clean win.

To your point about Cotto's face looking just as bad after the Pacquiao fight, well, the response is that's because Margarito permanently destroyed Cotto's punch resistance. The better comparison is to look at whether Cotto's face had looked comparable prior to the Margarito fight. I don't remember seeing Cotto's face that torn up before the Margarito fight. For example, it wasn't close to as torn up after Cotto's fight with Shane Mosley. It's true that Cotto had stamina and chin issues, but his face never was as torn up as that. I'm not saying though that outward appearance is dispositive. It can be argued both ways.

Bottom line: Margarito's whole career is tainted because of that incident. He and Capatillo are cheats. I'm glad Pacquiao almost retired him.

I agree it does taint his whole career. Don't think I'm defending him, I believe he must have known & that he should have been banned from boxing. But there are differences & reasons he may have done it for Mosley. He'd been partying too much & was apparently getting battered in sparring. I also think that Capetillo would have seen that the styles weren't ideal for them. I was one of about 3 people on here who picked Mosley for that fight, because it was what he loves, a guy who moves in straight lines, is slow, doesn't move his head too much & doesn't have a jab. Cotto may have beaten Mosley (I thought it was very close & I think had it a draw), but he'd showcased that his stamina was suspect, his chin had been shown to be dodgy in fights at 140 & there was an argument that he would lose his nerve a bit if an opponent couldn't be bullied (I don't buy that, but I'd heard it from a few).

Margarito's behaviour post-fight also just doesn't chime with a man who knows his wraps ain't right. He was shaking everyone's hands & while he is dumb, I don't think he is that thick. I contrasted that with him after the fight with Lujan, where his gloves only came off with his whole team around him & then there was none of the shaking hands. I disagree about the three fights we know he was clean in. The 2 losses were to guys who are HoFers & arguably ATGs, who he was made for stylistically, while he never looked any good above 154 to me.

But we'll never know. All I can say is I 100% agree with your bottom line. I'd much rather never see him in a ring again & I certainly saw no redemption in Pacquiao beating the shit out of him. It didn't need Pacquiao to retire him, the Commissions should have done that & denied him $3m+.