The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence inside)

[Spicoli]

Ask Lennox Lewis why he shit his pants, in his fight against Tyson. He had fear on his face, fear in his body language. Had to cheat the whole fight, didn't want to fight, just hold all night long. If you have to hold and cheat all fight long, you are a scared little pussy. Lewis should have been dq'd for holding. He wanted to hold Mikey all night long in his arms. Had size,weight and reach advantage and still was scared shitless of an almost shot Tyson. Lewis would have been sparked in the first round if not allowed to cheat. And this by an almost shot Tyson.

I just want to be sure we're not talking about Tyson when we slam others for cheating etc and etc

[marbleheadmaui]

I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.

And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.

OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.

Which heavyweights?

Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.

I would say with some confidence that in terms of excitement created due to their efforts in the ring none of those names come close (great as they may actually have been)

THAT statement is INSANE! Jack Dempsey was THE star in the Golden Age of American sport. Bigger than Ruth, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Red Grange, Knute Rockne and Notre Dame etc. He CREATED the event fight. He was so big he drew 100,000 person crowds and made a fortune making films while he was champion.

Foreman was literally thought to be life threatening, something I never heard said about Tyson. Exciting? Maybe not the right descriptive word. He was thought to be a bringer of doom.

Louis? Watch interviews or read the writings of prominent black political, literary and art figures who have commented on what their neighborhoods were like the night of Louis fights. Then read Jimmy Cannon or how President Roosevelt treated Louis before the second Schmeling fight. The respect and even awe in which Louis was held in his own time is demonstrable.

You are on a different planet!!

Mike Tyson is one of the most famous people who has ever lived!!

I kid you not, my wife's nan is staying with us as it's her 90th birthday tomorrow. I just asked her if she knew who George Foreman, or Jack Demsey were - she didn't! But she knew who Tyson was!

Elvis
Ali
Princess Diana
Mother Theresa
Michaelangelo
Michale Jackson
The Beatles

Mike Tyson

Yeah, my planet didn't begin in 1985

No, your planet ended in 1955

LOL

THAT was GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JazMerkin]

My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.

Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.

Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.

All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.

However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.

Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.

* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.

[Hulk]

Hulk. What's with the sig?

Well I lost a sig bet to PSL (Pac Straight Left) regarding the Haye vs. Klitschko fight.

So he wanted me to fly this sig. And I am.

He deserves all the credit and rep for it not me. But people keep repping me for it.

[BIG H]

My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.

Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.

Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.

All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.

However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.

Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.

* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.

Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!

[miron_lang]

THIS BOY IS DANGEROUS


That was the caption of Mike Tyson's picture in a magazine the 1st time i saw him. He was 18 0r 19 at the time.

By 1987 I saw him beat Berbick, Thomas, Tucker and Smith, they were the 4 best heavyweights at the time.


Philippines is a Muhammad Ali country. Even kids aged 7, 8 years old knew ali and Ali was my my favorite fighter. After Tyson scramble Spinks brain and eyes i thought Tyson was a great fighter but during those days i didnt care about a fighters resume and all that all i care a bout was exciting knockout fights. but even if i thought/knew that Tyson was a GREAT fighter I didnt ranked him near Muhammad ALI.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

[QUOTE=ryanman;994173][QUOTE=marbleheadmaui;994165][QUOTE=BIG H;994161][QUOTE=marbleheadmaui;994157]

Yeah, my planet didn't begin in 1985

No, your planet ended in 1955

I literally LOL to that but your wrong.

Dick Tiger retired in 1970

[marbleheadmaui]

My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.

Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.

Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.

All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.

However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.

Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.

* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.

Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!

But it ain't about FAME, it's about greatness, isn't it?

[Kev]

My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.

Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.

Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.

All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.

However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.

Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.

* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.

Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!

But it ain't about FAME, it's about greatness, isn't it?

H was responding to Jaz who was talking about how big they were in their time, not great.

Anyway, Tyson would have wrecked Jack Dempsey and Marciano, you seriously think differently?

[marbleheadmaui]

My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.

Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.

Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.

All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.

However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.

Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.

* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.

Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!

But it ain't about FAME, it's about greatness, isn't it?

H was responding to Jaz who was talking about how big they were in their time, not great.

Anyway, Tyson would have wrecked Jack Dempsey and Marciano, you seriously think differently?

I get very uncomfortable when folks predict as near certain outcomes things that have no basis in history. Niether Marciano nor Dempsey (post Doc Kearns) was ever wrecked.

Neither would have been intimidated by Tyson. Does that mean they beat him? Nope. But it's a much tougher call for me than it is for you.

[generalbulldog]

My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.

Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.

Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.

All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.

However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.

Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.

* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.

Thinking about it, I think the proper analogy would be like after Lebron James in the first 3 rounds of this year's NBA playoffs (before the NBA Finals) played so spectacularly that some people were saying that Lebron was as good and maybe even better than Michael Jordan or somewhere in that vicinity, but yet the people that followed the NBA for many years and hardcore fans said, hold up let's wait a little while before making such proclamations, because you have a generation of fans that saw Jordan played when he was in his prime or followed his career for a large part of it. Same thing with Tyson. When Tyson beat a whole bunch of top ranked HWs at the time and dismantle Spinks some people were proclaiming that Tyson was up there with a guy like Ali or even better, but yet fans that followed the sport for years and did see Ali for a huge chunk of his career, whether in his prime or the 70s would disagree or say it was too premature. Tyson and Lebron had these other worldly physical abilities but just lack that extra gear that the 2 greatest of their sports had. And coincidently it was mental toughness for both, imo.

[Mr140]

Tyson is a atg but is by far the most overrated heavyweight to ever grace the planet. I mean if i had to make list i have to put Ali, Foreman, Louis, Holyfeild and Lennox above the man. Anyhow is this another fucking how great was Tyson really thread again, is this because marble made the legacy thread. The one talking about how Holyfeild is tarnishing his rep because he is fighting in his late 40's. I mean we have been over this a lot and its he same people with the same shit to say and that includes me as well because i sure as shit have not changed my mind about it at all lol.

[Kev]

My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.

Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.

Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.

All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.

However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.

Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.

* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.

Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!

But it ain't about FAME, it's about greatness, isn't it?

H was responding to Jaz who was talking about how big they were in their time, not great.

Anyway, Tyson would have wrecked Jack Dempsey and Marciano, you seriously think differently?

I get very uncomfortable when folks predict as near certain outcomes things that have no basis in history. Niether Marciano nor Dempsey (post Doc Kearns) was ever wrecked.

Neither would have been intimidated by Tyson. Does that mean they beat him? Nope. But it's a much tougher call for me than it is for you.

Dempsey got destroyed by midget man Jim Flynn, the dwarf Jack Johnson famously beat by holding him at arms length and repeatedly punching him in the face. He beat Willard because he had horsehoes in his gloves in a bigger cheating scandal than Margarito.

Both he and the 185lb Marciano would have been done inside 4 rounds.

Marciano's resume is pretty weak, his era was worse than the one the Klitschkos have dominated for the past decade.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I get very uncomfortable when folks predict as near certain outcomes things that have no basis in history.... Neither would have been intimidated by Tyson.

This statement is not only self-contradictory, but also non-factual.

Dempsey got destroyed by midget man Jim Flynn, the dwarf Jack Johnson famously beat by holding him at arms length and repeatedly punching him in the face. He beat Willard because he had horsehoes in his gloves in a bigger cheating scandal than Margarito.

Not only that but he only made something like 6 title defences in 7 years, which for that era is abysmal... Even more so when you consider his activity leading up to his title shot. This was while avoiding Willis and Greb and actually avoiding ANY fighter who wasn't white all during which, He went missing for 3 years only to return and loose twice to Tunney.

Shit fighter, protected fighter. Complete Hype Job... 1st of a kind indeed!

I'm messing, he really wasn't shite. Quite phenomenal actually but as a champion he gets overrated way too much.... Actaully that's a lie.... 98% of the people that probably were guilty of overrating him are probably now dead.

The other 2% are Burt Sugar and maybe some people on this forum

[Spicoli]

This is like Lord of the Flies