Champions chasing Challengers

[Rantcatrat]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

where do you rank Martinez p4p?

who should he face to merit his worth?

martinez doesn't belong in the top 10 p4p. he's not that good. knocking out b level domestic fighters, does make you p4p credible.

who should he face to merit his worth? that's the problem, he will lose when he faces someone who's a legitimate contender. he just happens to be in a weak division...but that doesn't prove his superiority. it just means he's top dog on top of a pile of shit.

you didn't answer the question. do you have a p4p list? if so, who would you rank above him p4p?

also, just to be clear, he's top dog in two divisions, junior middleweight and middleweight, they may be both be equally crappy in your book.

[Master]

What about Joe Louis chasing Max Schemelling to get his revenge when Joe was champion or Joe Frasier trying to get the fight on with Muhammad Ali in 1971.

Terry Norris trying to get a pay day against Oscar Dela Hoya.

[TitoFan]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

Oh ok.... so we disagree.

I don't care to defend Martinez. He needs a couple of career-defining fights to establish his legacy, if there's going to be any.

As for Baby Chavez, if by "well managed" you mean protected from any fights that might endanger his precious little "0" in the loss column, to the point of ducking credible challengers. Then yeah..... the coddled little baby is well managed.

by well managed i mean he's made the most money with the least risk while upholding a brand name started by his dad.

that's the third element of the sweet science...the one people don't like to talk about: money.

the art of hitting and not being hit; while making as much money as possible.

I can now see why we will always disagree.

I see boxing as a sport. A sport I've loved for a very long time. Long enough to have seen the best fighting the best. Long enough to have seen warriors in the ring, wanting to fight the best opponents available... and not giving a rat's ass about "brand names" (give me a frigging break), maintaining fake undefeated records, or wanting to bloat their bullshit records with bums.

You, on the other hand, admire "well managed" fighters with all the attributes you very well mentioned in your post. Nothing wrong with that...... to each his own.

We'll never agree.

i don't admire chavez jr. i'm just suggesting that you're naive if you think boxing is just about a fighter's glory. its about money and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

as for people fighting bums... martinez fought a guy with a 1-7-2 record for his 40th fight! his 42nd fight was against 3-35-2! his 43rd fight was 14-4! his 44th fight: 14-10! his 45th 16-6! who has the padded record full of bums? martinez fought 10 times between 2005 and 2007... only 3 of those fighters had winning records.

besides, i'm suprised you're trying to take the moral high road here titofan... your namesake is a cheater who was caught red handed.

I think I've had fruitless arguments with you before, and I'm surprised I've allowed myself to argue with you again.

First of all, I never said fighting is just about "glory" or any bullshit like that. Of course it's about money. But how you handle your career says a lot about you as a fighter and how fans will perceive you. And you're a bigger fucking fool than I'll ever be if you think it's only about the money. You're one of these jaded "fans" that take everything to the $$$ and nothing else. If that's what drives you to like boxing, you're not really a fan.

And your trash talk about Trinidad.... I'm not going to get into that argument with you 'cause you're not worth my time. Suffice it to say that Trinidad was "never caught redhanded". He was made to re-wrap his hands differently from what he always did, and was never considered against the rules. Otherwise it would have been pointed out a long time ago. It was basically a mindgame ploy from the Hopkins corner, to play with Tito's mind. It has long been established that there was nothing wrong with the way he had his hands wrapped.

But all of this is wasted on your feeble mind, so go on with your mindsets, and go on worshipping and jerking off about coddled little fighters like Baby Chavez. And go on caring only about what the fighters make $$$. You sound like a real knowledgeable boxing fan to me.

[ruthless rocco]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

Oh ok.... so we disagree.

I don't care to defend Martinez. He needs a couple of career-defining fights to establish his legacy, if there's going to be any.

As for Baby Chavez, if by "well managed" you mean protected from any fights that might endanger his precious little "0" in the loss column, to the point of ducking credible challengers. Then yeah..... the coddled little baby is well managed.

by well managed i mean he's made the most money with the least risk while upholding a brand name started by his dad.

that's the third element of the sweet science...the one people don't like to talk about: money.

the art of hitting and not being hit; while making as much money as possible.

I can now see why we will always disagree.

I see boxing as a sport. A sport I've loved for a very long time. Long enough to have seen the best fighting the best. Long enough to have seen warriors in the ring, wanting to fight the best opponents available... and not giving a rat's ass about "brand names" (give me a frigging break), maintaining fake undefeated records, or wanting to bloat their bullshit records with bums.

You, on the other hand, admire "well managed" fighters with all the attributes you very well mentioned in your post. Nothing wrong with that...... to each his own.

We'll never agree.

i don't admire chavez jr. i'm just suggesting that you're naive if you think boxing is just about a fighter's glory. its about money and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

as for people fighting bums... martinez fought a guy with a 1-7-2 record for his 40th fight! his 42nd fight was against 3-35-2! his 43rd fight was 14-4! his 44th fight: 14-10! his 45th 16-6! who has the padded record full of bums? martinez fought 10 times between 2005 and 2007... only 3 of those fighters had winning records.

besides, i'm suprised you're trying to take the moral high road here titofan... your namesake is a cheater who was caught red handed.

I think I've had fruitless arguments with you before, and I'm surprised I've allowed myself to argue with you again.

First of all, I never said fighting is just about "glory" or any bullshit like that. Of course it's about money. But how you handle your career says a lot about you as a fighter and how fans will perceive you. And you're a bigger fucking fool than I'll ever be if you think it's only about the money. You're one of these jaded "fans" that take everything to the $$$ and nothing else. If that's what drives you to like boxing, you're not really a fan.

And your trash talk about Trinidad.... I'm not going to get into that argument with you 'cause you're not worth my time. Suffice it to say that Trinidad was "never caught redhanded". He was made to re-wrap his hands differently from what he always did, and was never considered against the rules. Otherwise it would have been pointed out a long time ago. It was basically a mindgame ploy from the Hopkins corner, to play with Tito's mind. It has long been established that there was nothing wrong with the way he had his hands wrapped.

But all of this is wasted on your feeble mind, so go on with your mindsets, and go on worshipping and jerking off about coddled little fighters like Baby Chavez. And go on caring only about what the fighters make $$$. You sound like a real knowledgeable boxing fan to me.

i completely agree with you, if by fruitless arguments you mean you've never been able to hold your ground with me in a debate.

they always seem to end with you calling me names and stomping off to your room like a child. i'm used to it by now...its all in the game.

[TitoFan]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

Oh ok.... so we disagree.

I don't care to defend Martinez. He needs a couple of career-defining fights to establish his legacy, if there's going to be any.

As for Baby Chavez, if by "well managed" you mean protected from any fights that might endanger his precious little "0" in the loss column, to the point of ducking credible challengers. Then yeah..... the coddled little baby is well managed.

by well managed i mean he's made the most money with the least risk while upholding a brand name started by his dad.

that's the third element of the sweet science...the one people don't like to talk about: money.

the art of hitting and not being hit; while making as much money as possible.

I can now see why we will always disagree.

I see boxing as a sport. A sport I've loved for a very long time. Long enough to have seen the best fighting the best. Long enough to have seen warriors in the ring, wanting to fight the best opponents available... and not giving a rat's ass about "brand names" (give me a frigging break), maintaining fake undefeated records, or wanting to bloat their bullshit records with bums.

You, on the other hand, admire "well managed" fighters with all the attributes you very well mentioned in your post. Nothing wrong with that...... to each his own.

We'll never agree.

i don't admire chavez jr. i'm just suggesting that you're naive if you think boxing is just about a fighter's glory. its about money and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

as for people fighting bums... martinez fought a guy with a 1-7-2 record for his 40th fight! his 42nd fight was against 3-35-2! his 43rd fight was 14-4! his 44th fight: 14-10! his 45th 16-6! who has the padded record full of bums? martinez fought 10 times between 2005 and 2007... only 3 of those fighters had winning records.

besides, i'm suprised you're trying to take the moral high road here titofan... your namesake is a cheater who was caught red handed.

I think I've had fruitless arguments with you before, and I'm surprised I've allowed myself to argue with you again.

First of all, I never said fighting is just about "glory" or any bullshit like that. Of course it's about money. But how you handle your career says a lot about you as a fighter and how fans will perceive you. And you're a bigger fucking fool than I'll ever be if you think it's only about the money. You're one of these jaded "fans" that take everything to the $$$ and nothing else. If that's what drives you to like boxing, you're not really a fan.

And your trash talk about Trinidad.... I'm not going to get into that argument with you 'cause you're not worth my time. Suffice it to say that Trinidad was "never caught redhanded". He was made to re-wrap his hands differently from what he always did, and was never considered against the rules. Otherwise it would have been pointed out a long time ago. It was basically a mindgame ploy from the Hopkins corner, to play with Tito's mind. It has long been established that there was nothing wrong with the way he had his hands wrapped.

But all of this is wasted on your feeble mind, so go on with your mindsets, and go on worshipping and jerking off about coddled little fighters like Baby Chavez. And go on caring only about what the fighters make $$$. You sound like a real knowledgeable boxing fan to me.

i completely agree with you, if by fruitless arguments you mean you've never been able to hold your ground with me in a debate.

they always seem to end with you calling me names and stomping off to your room like a child. i'm used to it by now...its all in the game.

Debate? As in your spouting baseless accusations without any information to back them up? No, you're right..... I'm not too good at those. Whereas you've mastered the art pretty good. See.... debate is where two intelligent people argue back and forth over conflicting points of view. When it's one intelligent person and one asshole..... it's called talking trash.

In case you're wondering, you're the asshole.

[TitoFan]

No need to thank me. I like to help all charity cases like you. It gives me a sense of purpose.

[Galaxy]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

where do you rank Martinez p4p?

who should he face to merit his worth?

martinez doesn't belong in the top 10 p4p. he's not that good. knocking out b level domestic fighters, does make you p4p credible.

who should he face to merit his worth? that's the problem, he will lose when he faces someone who's a legitimate contender. he just happens to be in a weak division...but that doesn't prove his superiority. it just means he's top dog on top of a pile of shit.

You don't consider wins over Pavlik, Williams or Dzindziruk any good? Pavlik was the lineal champ. So he's already faced a legit test.

[ruthless rocco]

i doubt we agree...

i think martinez is massively overrated; whereas i find chavez jr to be well managed.

where do you rank Martinez p4p?

who should he face to merit his worth?

martinez doesn't belong in the top 10 p4p. he's not that good. knocking out b level domestic fighters, does make you p4p credible.

who should he face to merit his worth? that's the problem, he will lose when he faces someone who's a legitimate contender. he just happens to be in a weak division...but that doesn't prove his superiority. it just means he's top dog on top of a pile of shit.

You don't consider wins over Pavlik, Williams or Dzindziruk any good? Pavlik was the lineal champ. So he's already faced a legit test.

there's no denying martinez had a couple of spectacular wins (and a loss and a draw) against against a few of top level opponents a few years ago.

based on his most recent performances however, i believe he is slipping. he seems to lack focus...which hinders speed... which lessens power. i think his age is catching up with him. a person's athleticism only carries them so far in boxing. i don't believe he has the skill set to carry him when he no longer has his speed advantage. this loss of focus may also have to do with being a media darling...he's like a starlet now. everyone says he's so great... i think he's losing his drive.

we'll see how he fares in the future if and when he faces top level opposition again. because in his last two fights he performed what i feel to be poorly against some basic b level fighters. which i feel lessens his credibility in the P4P rankings.

[TitoFan]

Oh yeah... Sergio is slipping. Now is the time to pit him against Chavez Jr. I say let's get this match made as soon as possible. A victory over the fading Martinez will elevate Chavez's status and put a major scalp on his belt. That way he can get the doubters off his back.

[Galaxy]

Slipping? And he's still knocking these guys out!

His last 7 opponents have a combined record of 230-8

Macklin arguably defeated Sturm! Dzinziruk & Barker were both undefeated.

Its not like he's fighting guys Mayorga & Margarito

[ruthless rocco]

i'm gonna wait and see how he fares in the future... if and when he faces top level opposition again.

as i previously stated, he performed what i feel to be poorly against some basic B level fighters in his last two fights. which i feel lessens his credibility in the P4P rankings.

[Galaxy]

i'm gonna wait and see how he fares in the future... if and when he faces top level opposition again.

as i previously stated, he performed what i feel to be poorly against some basic B level fighters in his last two fights. which i feel lessens his credibility in the P4P rankings.

Which fighters do you class b level? He also stopped them all!

I'll give you Barker, but Macklin (who was robbed against Sturm) & Dzinziruk are world class!

[ruthless rocco]

i'm gonna wait and see how he fares in the future... if and when he faces top level opposition again.

as i previously stated, he performed what i feel to be poorly against some basic B level fighters in his last two fights. which i feel lessens his credibility in the P4P rankings.

Which fighters do you class b level? He also stopped them all!

I'll give you Barker, but Macklin (who was robbed against Sturm) & Dzinziruk are world class!

the answers to your questions are in the quotes of mine you provided above.
have you chosen not to read the thread you've just joined?

only time will tell.

[Galaxy]

i'm gonna wait and see how he fares in the future... if and when he faces top level opposition again.

as i previously stated, he performed what i feel to be poorly against some basic B level fighters in his last two fights. which i feel lessens his credibility in the P4P rankings.

Which fighters do you class b level? He also stopped them all!

I'll give you Barker, but Macklin (who was robbed against Sturm) & Dzinziruk are world class!

the answers to your questions are in the quotes of mine you provided above.
have you chosen not to read the thread you've just joined?

only time will tell.

No I've read through the entire thread, & again Macklin was robbed against Sturm so was potentially #1 in the division & Martinez knocked him out! What more do you want?

[ruthless rocco]

i'm gonna wait and see how he fares in the future... if and when he faces top level opposition again.

as i previously stated, he performed what i feel to be poorly against some basic B level fighters in his last two fights. which i feel lessens his credibility in the P4P rankings.

Which fighters do you class b level? He also stopped them all!

I'll give you Barker, but Macklin (who was robbed against Sturm) & Dzinziruk are world class!

the answers to your questions are in the quotes of mine you provided above.
have you chosen not to read the thread you've just joined?

only time will tell.

No I've read through the entire thread, & again Macklin was robbed against Sturm so was potentially #1 in the division & Martinez knocked him out! What more do you want?

i want to wait and see what happens when he fights next.

everything else is speculation... and i'm predicting his continued decline in focus and speed and power and therefore effectiveness. if this happens against a fighter with some wrinkles in his game, someone with some depth. i predict a loss for sergio.

you are perfectly welcome to think he's P4P whatever number you want.