Floyd, Manny, Hop, Roy legacy

[mikeeod]

I've been giving it a lot of thought and I can't decide who will be ranked highest historically. All four guys have had great careers and all have positives and negatives that cause me to constantly change my mind based on how I weigh my criteria. To be clear, I'm talking about which guy has the most impressive legacy and will go down as the most "historical" fighter. Here is how I currently break them down:

Floyd: Undefeated, multi-weight champion who has reigned as P4P #1 for years. He has defeated solid competition in guys like Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Canelo Alvarez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar, and Ricky Hatton. His signature win, in my opinion, was his domination of #3 P4P (at the time of the fight) Chico Corrales. Floyd used angles, beautiful combinations and a debilitating jab to the body to completely outclass a dominant fighter who had been blowing out top competition for years. The knock against Floyd is that at times his style is less than exciting, many of the biggest names he fought were past their best (Oscar, Shane, Cotto...etc.) and that he missed some of his biggest/best opportunities (Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas, Casamayor...etc.), most notably the superfight with Manny.

Manny: 8 division titlist and multi-weight champ who energized the sport with his all offense style and has beaten arguably the toughest competition of the four mentioned. While Manny has suffered a few draws and losses, many argue that is due to his always seeking out the toughest challengers available. Hard to argue with a guy who started at flyweight and took on the toughest available competition up to jr. middleweight. Some of the names on Manny's outstanding resume are: Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Bradley, Hatton, Cotto, Ledwaba, Mosely, and Oscar, many of were much larger and stopped in fantastic fashion. Manny's signature win would have to be his first win against Barrera, who was coming off the Hamed win, revitalized and ranked #3 P4P at the time. Manny completely savaged him and stopped him in impressive fashion. The knock against Manny is that some of the names on his resume (Oscar, Shane, Margarito...etc.) were past their best, he lost and drew during his prime (JMM and Morales) and never was able to face his greatest rival Floyd Mayweather.

Hop: Fastest title defense/knockout at middleweight, Record for successful middleweight defenses (20), won lineal light heavy title multiple times, first to unify all four major titles at same weight, oldest fighter to win titles, oldest to defend and oldest to unify. Fought solid competition, second only to maybe Manny, fighting names such as Calzaghe (#2 P4P at time of fight), Taylor, Pavilik (#3 P4P), Tarver (#6 P4P), Roy Jones, Winky Wright (#3 P4P), Glen Johnson, Tito Trinidad (#2 P4P), Oscar, Cloud, Joe Lipsey, Dawson and Pasqual to name a few. Wins over Tarver, Pavilik, Wright, Oscar were impressive, losses to Joe C. and Taylor were disputed. Signature win was over Tito in a fight that Tito was heavily favored to win. Hop turned in the most complete performance against an ATG of anyone on this list, literally dominating every aspect of the fight (jabbing, defense, combinations, body work, mental game, dictating pace and distance, center of ring, off ropes...etc.). The factors against Hop are that his style is frustratingly boring against the wrong opponent, he lost to Jones and Dawson convincingly, Taylor and Joe C. disputably, and a couple of his big wins were against guys coming up (Tito and Oscar).

Roy: Unified light heavyweight, physical phenom, won title at 160 and heavyweight, 4 weight titlist and P4P #1 for numerous years prior to suffering first legitimate loss. Roy beat the weakest competition of those listed, beating guys like Montell Griffin, John Ruiz, BHop (who was green at the time), Virgil Hill, and James Toney (#2 P4P at the time). Roy's signature win is easily his domination of Toney in a fight Toney was favored to win when James was undefeated and identified by some as the next Marvin Hagler. Roy used his considerable advantages in speed and athleticism to completely dominate and outclass one of the most feared fighters at the time. The knock against Roy was that after the Toney win he never pushed himself again until facing Ruiz, who still was the weakest of the titlists available and not the true champ at Heavy. Roy missed more big fights/challengers than all three other fighters combined. Also, Roy was not able to bounce back from losses like Manny and Hop were, and suffered some horrific stoppages while still in or near his prime.

At this point I rank them Hop, Manny, Floyd and then Roy in that order. Roy frustrates me because I feel that he was potentially the best fighter of the group, not in terms of learned skills but just in his freakish ability. I place Hop and Manny over Floyd based of level of competition, and I place Hop over Manny due to the fact that his historical accomplishments will last for decades and Manny's, in my opinion, are not as impressive. Interested for alternate points of view though.

[Beanflicker]

It's disappointing that so many people are hell bent on flat out rewriting boxing history when it comes to Floyd.

Floyd Mayweather was calling both Oscar and Shane out for YEARS before he got the fight. He was calling Oscar out back when Oscar was at 154 and Floyd was at 130. You can Google that, it's documented history (complete with his own father going on record saying he was insane to challenge DLH). Same thing with Shane - he had been calling Shane out since 1999, it was Shane who decided not to over the span of 10 years. Shane was the one turning down the fight and making excuses. Cotto also turned down a Floyd fight earlier in his career because he felt he wasn't ready. Kostya, Freitas, Casamayor... there's video of Floyd calling all these guys out.

It's incredible that I read people ranking Pacqiauo above Floyd historically and knowing it's not a joke or a troll job. It's unbelievable. I constantly have to stand up for a guy I don't like.

[g3org3]

Floyd's 1st then hop, roy and manny. That manny fight is going to happen no doubt about it and then all you floyd haters are going to be sick when he beats manny.

[GAME]

It's Hopkins for me. If Floyd's still doing what he's doing for another 15 years then it will be close

Prime for prime though Roy Jones at his peak was the best

[mikeeod]

It's disappointing that so many people are hell bent on flat out rewriting boxing history when it comes to Floyd.

Floyd Mayweather was calling both Oscar and Shane out for YEARS before he got the fight. He was calling Oscar out back when Oscar was at 154 and Floyd was at 130. You can Google that, it's documented history (complete with his own father going on record saying he was insane to challenge DLH). Same thing with Shane - he had been calling Shane out since 1999, it was Shane who decided not to over the span of 10 years. Shane was the one turning down the fight and making excuses. Cotto also turned down a Floyd fight earlier in his career because he felt he wasn't ready. Kostya, Freitas, Casamayor... there's video of Floyd calling all these guys out.


It's incredible that I read people ranking Pacqiauo above Floyd historically and knowing it's not a joke or a troll job. It's unbelievable. I constantly have to stand up for a guy I don't like.

I see I wasn't clear enough when I wrote the post and caused confusion. I wasn't saying Floyd ducked those guys and didn't try to make those fights (Oscar, Shane...etc.), just saying that for whatever reason some of the big ones got away and that hurts his standing in my rankings. I feel Roy, after Toney, was content to feed on subpar competition where Floyd just had circumstances against him. You are correct that Floyd pursued those big fights for years though.

[denilson200]

Floyd: Undefeated, multi-weight champion who has reigned as P4P #1 for years. He has defeated solid competition in guys like Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Canelo Alvarez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar, and Ricky Hatton. His signature win, in my opinion, was his domination of #3 P4P (at the time of the fight) Chico Corrales. Floyd used angles, beautiful combinations and a debilitating jab to the body to completely outclass a dominant fighter who had been blowing out top competition for years. The knock against Floyd is that at times his style is less than exciting, many of the biggest names he fought were past their best (Oscar, Shane, Cotto...etc.) and that he missed some of his biggest/best opportunities (Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas, Casamayor...etc.), most notably the superfight with Manny.

You say Floyd never fought Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas or Casamayor.

But he fought Shane AFTER Shane was coming off arguably his biggest win were he destroyed Antonio Margarito.

Remember AT THAT TIME Margarito was seen as a monster because he previously beaten the previously unbeaten Cotto.

Mayweather fought and beat the BEST Mosely

Yes. Mayweather never fought Kostya Tszyu but Mayweather beat the guy that punched Tszyu into retirement (Ricky Hattion) who AT THE TIME when Hatton fought Mayweather, Hatton was undefeated and at the VERY TOP of his game.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Joel Casamayor but he has beaten the guys that have beaten Casamayor (Robert Guerrero, J.M.Marquez and Luis Castillo)

Yes. Mayweather never fought Acelino Freitas but Mayweather beat Diego Corrales and Corrales went on to beat Acelino Freitas.

How can you say Miguel Cotto was "past his prime" when he fought Mayweather in 2012 ? When a few months back Cotto destroyed the fighter who was renowed as the best middleweight in the world - Sergio Martinez ?

How can you say Oscar was past his "past his prime" when he was only 34 at the time and in my opinion had only lost once to Hopkins (I believe like many that he beat Trinidad and won both fights against Mosley)

Dude. All roads lead to Maywether. He is the greatest fighter in our era.

There are only two fighters in the world today who I think would stand a chance of beating Mayweather.

Guillermo Rigondeaux and Andre Ward.

And I don't think they would win, but they would have a chance.

Every other fighter would have two chances, slim and none........and slim left town.

Manny: 8 division titlist and multi-weight champ who energized the sport with his all offense style and has beaten arguably the toughest competition of the four mentioned. While Manny has suffered a few draws and losses, many argue that is due to his always seeking out the toughest challengers available. Hard to argue with a guy who started at flyweight and took on the toughest available competition up to jr. middleweight. Some of the names on Manny's outstanding resume are: Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Bradley, Hatton, Cotto, Ledwaba, Mosely, and Oscar, many of were much larger and stopped in fantastic fashion. Manny's signature win would have to be his first win against Barrera, who was coming off the Hamed win, revitalized and ranked #3 P4P at the time. Manny completely savaged him and stopped him in impressive fashion. The knock against Manny is that some of the names on his resume (Oscar, Shane, Margarito...etc.) were past their best, he lost and drew during his prime (JMM and Morales) and never was able to face his greatest rival Floyd Mayweather.

Manny beat Hatton AFTER Mayweather had beaten Hatton.
Manny beat Oscar AFTER Mayweather had beaten Oscar.
Manny got knocked out by Marquez AFTER Mayweather had beaten Marquez.

Manny was beaten by Bradley in the first fight (Yes, yes I thought that was a bad decision) but he hardly ran Bradley out of the ring second time around.

Manny has fought JMM 4 times. Ist time a draw, second time an SD for Manny, third time a very dodgy decision for Manny and in the fourth fight, Manny nearly got his head decapitated by JMM

Yet JMM barely wins a round aganist Mayweather.

He has a lost against Morales and two KO losses early in his career.

Look - I’m not saying Pac-Man is not a great fighter.

He is.

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and put Manny above Mayweather, that is insane and it will be shown how insane it is, should they face up next year when Floyd will not even lose a round to Manny

But I'm sure you will trot out the usual "Manny was past his prime" line.

To be honest until Floyd fights and beats Wladimir Klitschko with one arm tied behind his back will people give him credit.

My list is :

1) Floyd
2) Hop
3) Roy
4) Manny

[Beanflicker]

I just have no idea how anyone could justify not having Floyd #1. Floyd worked his way to becoming the highest grossing star boxing has ever seen, he's been fighting for 18 years undefeated (16 of those years as a champion and at a championship level) and at an age where historically most guys are retired or washed up, he's fighting and winning on the highest level.

At some point, and this point may be years or even decades down the road, boxing fans are going to have to acknowledge Floyd as one of the very top greatest fighters of all time, maybe even the #1.

There's only so much verbal gymnastics people can do to whitewash his accomplishments, sooner or later you have to give the devil his due. He's an asshole, a thug, and will never go down as the most exciting/action packed fighter in history, but his talent and genius in the ring eclipses pretty much every boxer who ever lived.

You just can't compare him to a guy who we've seen KTFO a several stages of his career, a guy we've seen outboxed and cleanly beaten. Pac is an ATG warrior, great action fighter, but legacy-wise he falls short of Mayweather in the end.

[mikeeod]

I just have no idea how anyone could justify not having Floyd #1. Floyd worked his way to becoming the highest grossing star boxing has ever seen, he's been fighting for 18 years undefeated (16 of those years as a champion and at a championship level) and at an age where historically most guys are retired or washed up, he's fighting and winning on the highest level.

At some point, and this point may be years or even decades down the road, boxing fans are going to have to acknowledge Floyd as one of the very top greatest fighters of all time, maybe even the #1.

There's only so much verbal gymnastics people can do to whitewash his accomplishments, sooner or later you have to give the devil his due. He's an asshole, a thug, and will never go down as the most exciting/action packed fighter in history, but his talent and genius in the ring eclipses pretty much every boxer who ever lived.

You just can't compare him to a guy who we've seen KTFO a several stages of his career, a guy we've seen outboxed and cleanly beaten. Pac is an ATG warrior, great action fighter, but legacy-wise he falls short of Mayweather in the end.

This is where the argument goes south. I give Floyd credit as a great fighter, even ATG. I acknowledge that he didn't duck anyone and that he faced good opposition, superior to someone like Roy Jones jr. I can even see where individuals would disagree with me and value Floyd's dominance over what I feel is clearly better quality of opposition for Hop and Manny. Where it gets ridiculous is when people try to act like it is such an unheard of or unrealistic debate. Where it gets ludicrous is when people go the ultimate of hysteria and fantasy land and say Floyd is greater and has accomplished more than guys like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong...etc. It just isn't worth debating with someone who is so biased and emotionally involved with a fighter that they can't keep the conversation semi-rational. No way will any knowledgeable, unbiased fan/historian EVER rank Floyd higher than those guys mentioned above. They beat numerous prime HOFers and have more knockouts than Floyd has fights.

[mikeeod]

Floyd: Undefeated, multi-weight champion who has reigned as P4P #1 for years. He has defeated solid competition in guys like Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Canelo Alvarez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar, and Ricky Hatton. His signature win, in my opinion, was his domination of #3 P4P (at the time of the fight) Chico Corrales. Floyd used angles, beautiful combinations and a debilitating jab to the body to completely outclass a dominant fighter who had been blowing out top competition for years. The knock against Floyd is that at times his style is less than exciting, many of the biggest names he fought were past their best (Oscar, Shane, Cotto...etc.) and that he missed some of his biggest/best opportunities (Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas, Casamayor...etc.), most notably the superfight with Manny.

You say Floyd never fought Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas or Casamayor.

But he fought Shane AFTER Shane was coming off arguably his biggest win were he destroyed Antonio Margarito. Shane's win over Oscar was a much bigger win, it isn't even close or debatable. Margarito had been beaten by Paul Williams a few fights before his big win over Cotto, so it wasn't like the guy was unbeatable.

Remember AT THAT TIME Margarito was seen as a monster because he previously beaten the previously unbeaten Cotto.

Mayweather fought and beat the BEST Mosely No way. That just isn't a true statement at all. Mosely had been outclassed by Forrest and Winky FOUR TIMES and beaten by Cotto when he fought Floyd. In no way was he prime or the best version of his career. You are kidding yourself.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Kostya Tszyu but Mayweather beat the guy that punched Tszyu into retirement (Ricky Hattion) who AT THE TIME when Hatton fought Mayweather, Hatton was undefeated and at the VERY TOP of his game. I gave Floyd credit for the Hatton win, as I feel this was an impressive performance. That being said, I never give someone credit for beating a guy who beat another guy. Look at Ali, Norton, Foreman and you will see that styles make fights. I think Floyd would've won vs. Kostya, he loses credit in my ranking system though for not fighting him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Joel Casamayor but he has beaten the guys that have beaten Casamayor (Robert Guerrero, J.M.Marquez and Luis Castillo) Joel was shot by the time he fought those fighters, and I feel that great fighters seek out and beat top competition, not let other guys beat them for him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Acelino Freitas but Mayweather beat Diego Corrales and Corrales went on to beat Acelino Freitas.

How can you say Miguel Cotto was "past his prime" when he fought Mayweather in 2012 ? When a few months back Cotto destroyed the fighter who was renowed as the best middleweight in the world - Sergio Martinez ? I'm sorry, you seem like a good guy and seem passionate for the sport, but this is an assinine statement. Cotto looked good against a guy with no mobility who is done as a fighter. The first world class, durable guy Miguel fights will beat him. He was a shell of his prime self when he fought Floyd and everyone who is unbiased knows/admits this.

How can you say Oscar was past his "past his prime" when he was only 34 at the time and in my opinion had only lost once to Hopkins (I believe like many that he beat Trinidad and won both fights against Mosley) Hahahahah. Another comment that you have to admit is ridiculous. EVERYONE knows Oscar was done by the Floyd fight and NOWHERE near his prime. I don't give Floyd or Manny much credit for beating those versions of Oscar. There is no way you can say with a straight face that Oscar was near his prime for that fight.

Dude. All roads lead to Maywether. He is the greatest fighter in our era. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. I laid out my reasons for ranking guys where I do. Try to keep it in perspective though, I'm not saying Floyd is a bum or coward...etc. I admit he is an ATG, I just feel that due to accomplishments Hop and Manny should be ranked higher. I can see how people would disagree though.

There are only two fighters in the world today who I think would stand a chance of beating Mayweather.

Guillermo Rigondeaux and Andre Ward.

And I don't think they would win, but they would have a chance.

Every other fighter would have two chances, slim and none........and slim left town.

Manny: 8 division titlist and multi-weight champ who energized the sport with his all offense style and has beaten arguably the toughest competition of the four mentioned. While Manny has suffered a few draws and losses, many argue that is due to his always seeking out the toughest challengers available. Hard to argue with a guy who started at flyweight and took on the toughest available competition up to jr. middleweight. Some of the names on Manny's outstanding resume are: Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Bradley, Hatton, Cotto, Ledwaba, Mosely, and Oscar, many of were much larger and stopped in fantastic fashion. Manny's signature win would have to be his first win against Barrera, who was coming off the Hamed win, revitalized and ranked #3 P4P at the time. Manny completely savaged him and stopped him in impressive fashion. The knock against Manny is that some of the names on his resume (Oscar, Shane, Margarito...etc.) were past their best, he lost and drew during his prime (JMM and Morales) and never was able to face his greatest rival Floyd Mayweather.

Manny beat Hatton AFTER Mayweather had beaten Hatton. Great knockout, and due to how it went down I'm confident Manny does that to Hatton any time they fought. Bad style clash for Ricky.
Manny beat Oscar AFTER Mayweather had beaten Oscar. Don't put much stock in this win.
Manny got knocked out by Marquez AFTER Mayweather had beaten Marquez. Styles make fights, JMM grew into the weightclass by the time of that 4th fight, and Manny was extremely aggressive and on the verge of a stoppage himself when he got caught. When you fight tough comp that happens to everyone. The only way to guarantee you remain undefeated is by fighting guys you know you can beat.

Manny was beaten by Bradley in the first fight (Yes, yes I thought that was a bad decision) but he hardly ran Bradley out of the ring second time around. He dominated both fights against a top ranked P4P #3 undefeated champion. Tough to fault a guy for that or because the judges sucked in the first fight.

Manny has fought JMM 4 times. Ist time a draw, second time an SD for Manny, third time a very dodgy decision for Manny and in the fourth fight, Manny nearly got his head decapitated by JMM Bad style match up. Also, Manny and JMM are smaller than Floyd, so I don't put as much stock as most in Floyd beating JMM. To me Floyd is too big for both/either of those guys.

Yet JMM barely wins a round aganist Mayweather.

He has a lost against Morales and two KO losses early in his career. Morales was a BEAST and is a HOFer. Easy. You fight enough tough guys you will lose a close decision here or there.

Look - I’m not saying Pac-Man is not a great fighter.

He is.

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and put Manny above Mayweather, that is insane and it will be shown how insane it is, should they face up next year when Floyd will not even lose a round to Manny

But I'm sure you will trot out the usual "Manny was past his prime" line. I will trot that line out now. Manny is past his prime. Do you disagree with that Manny is no where near the fighter he was in the past and he is well above his best weight. I think that due to the style match up Floyd would have always beat Manny, but also feel that they would have had great fights and Floyd woud've struggled. That being said, just because a fighter loses to another guy doesn't mean that he has to be ranked below that guy. Ray Robinson lost to the larger Joey Maxim and I don't place Joey above Ray. Joe C. Beat Roy Jones and I don't place Joe above Roy.

To be honest until Floyd fights and beats Wladimir Klitschko with one arm tied behind his back will people give him credit.

My list is :

1) Floyd
2) Hop
3) Roy
4) Manny

It's all subjective, so it is a respectable list. That being said, some insight into why you rank them like that would be interesting.

[Hulk]

It's Hopkins for me. If Floyd's still doing what he's doing for another 15 years then it will be close

Prime for prime though Roy Jones at his peak was the best

Agree completely about Roy.

No one comes close.

[Gandalf]

I don't know what this best of all time stuff really means, but they are all great fighters. There just seems to be something a little off with Mayweather and his ducking of Manny though. You cannot avoid the other best fighter around your weight class and expect it to look good. Hopkins and Roy have losses, but they took on the best no questions asked. Floyd still has that big question mark and the Manny who beat up Cotto to a pulp wasn't fought and instead actively avoided.

[Fenster]

Not sure who I rate best overall. I'll try and break it down through a 10 question scientific points system.

1. Most exciting

1. Pac
2. Roy
3. Floyd
4. Hop

2. P4P best

1. Roy
2. Floyd
3. Pac
4. Hop

3. Mentally best

1. Hop
2. Floyd
3. Pac
4. Roy

4. Greastest ever virtuoso performance

1. Roy
2. Floyd
3. Pac
4. Hop

5. Best KO ever

1. Pac
2. Roy
3. Floyd
4. Hop

6. Best at getting knocked down/out

1. Roy
2. Pac
3. Hop
4. Floyd

7. Best ring enterance

1. Roy
2. Hop
3. Floyd
4. Pac

8. Best at interviews

1. Hop
2. Roy
3. Floyd
4. Pac

9. Best at taking a shot to the goolies

1. Floyd
2. Pac
3. Roy
4. Hop

10. Best chance of making it past 3 rounds against a prime Naz

1. lol
2. as if
3. don't be silly
4. now you're taking the piss

That leaves us with

1. Roy (5 and 1/2 PTS)
2. Hop (3 and 1/2 PTS)
3. Pac (3 PTS)
4. Floyd (2 and 1/2 PTS)

I wouldn't have particularly chosen this order but the numbers have spoken. Fact.

[Memphis]

When you put it like that

[denilson200]

Floyd: Undefeated, multi-weight champion who has reigned as P4P #1 for years. He has defeated solid competition in guys like Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Canelo Alvarez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar, and Ricky Hatton. His signature win, in my opinion, was his domination of #3 P4P (at the time of the fight) Chico Corrales. Floyd used angles, beautiful combinations and a debilitating jab to the body to completely outclass a dominant fighter who had been blowing out top competition for years. The knock against Floyd is that at times his style is less than exciting, many of the biggest names he fought were past their best (Oscar, Shane, Cotto...etc.) and that he missed some of his biggest/best opportunities (Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas, Casamayor...etc.), most notably the superfight with Manny.

You say Floyd never fought Kostya, prime Shane, Frietas or Casamayor.

But he fought Shane AFTER Shane was coming off arguably his biggest win were he destroyed Antonio Margarito. Shane's win over Oscar was a much bigger win, it isn't even close or debatable. Margarito had been beaten by Paul Williams a few fights before his big win over Cotto, so it wasn't like the guy was unbeatable.

Remember AT THAT TIME Margarito was seen as a monster because he previously beaten the previously unbeaten Cotto.

Mayweather fought and beat the BEST Mosely No way. That just isn't a true statement at all. Mosely had been outclassed by Forrest and Winky FOUR TIMES and beaten by Cotto when he fought Floyd. In no way was he prime or the best version of his career. You are kidding yourself.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Kostya Tszyu but Mayweather beat the guy that punched Tszyu into retirement (Ricky Hattion) who AT THE TIME when Hatton fought Mayweather, Hatton was undefeated and at the VERY TOP of his game. I gave Floyd credit for the Hatton win, as I feel this was an impressive performance. That being said, I never give someone credit for beating a guy who beat another guy. Look at Ali, Norton, Foreman and you will see that styles make fights. I think Floyd would've won vs. Kostya, he loses credit in my ranking system though for not fighting him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Joel Casamayor but he has beaten the guys that have beaten Casamayor (Robert Guerrero, J.M.Marquez and Luis Castillo) Joel was shot by the time he fought those fighters, and I feel that great fighters seek out and beat top competition, not let other guys beat them for him.

Yes. Mayweather never fought Acelino Freitas but Mayweather beat Diego Corrales and Corrales went on to beat Acelino Freitas.

How can you say Miguel Cotto was "past his prime" when he fought Mayweather in 2012 ? When a few months back Cotto destroyed the fighter who was renowed as the best middleweight in the world - Sergio Martinez ? I'm sorry, you seem like a good guy and seem passionate for the sport, but this is an assinine statement. Cotto looked good against a guy with no mobility who is done as a fighter. The first world class, durable guy Miguel fights will beat him. He was a shell of his prime self when he fought Floyd and everyone who is unbiased knows/admits this.

How can you say Oscar was past his "past his prime" when he was only 34 at the time and in my opinion had only lost once to Hopkins (I believe like many that he beat Trinidad and won both fights against Mosley) Hahahahah. Another comment that you have to admit is ridiculous. EVERYONE knows Oscar was done by the Floyd fight and NOWHERE near his prime. I don't give Floyd or Manny much credit for beating those versions of Oscar. There is no way you can say with a straight face that Oscar was near his prime for that fight.

Dude. All roads lead to Maywether. He is the greatest fighter in our era. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. I laid out my reasons for ranking guys where I do. Try to keep it in perspective though, I'm not saying Floyd is a bum or coward...etc. I admit he is an ATG, I just feel that due to accomplishments Hop and Manny should be ranked higher. I can see how people would disagree though.

There are only two fighters in the world today who I think would stand a chance of beating Mayweather.

Guillermo Rigondeaux and Andre Ward.

And I don't think they would win, but they would have a chance.

Every other fighter would have two chances, slim and none........and slim left town.

Manny: 8 division titlist and multi-weight champ who energized the sport with his all offense style and has beaten arguably the toughest competition of the four mentioned. While Manny has suffered a few draws and losses, many argue that is due to his always seeking out the toughest challengers available. Hard to argue with a guy who started at flyweight and took on the toughest available competition up to jr. middleweight. Some of the names on Manny's outstanding resume are: Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Bradley, Hatton, Cotto, Ledwaba, Mosely, and Oscar, many of were much larger and stopped in fantastic fashion. Manny's signature win would have to be his first win against Barrera, who was coming off the Hamed win, revitalized and ranked #3 P4P at the time. Manny completely savaged him and stopped him in impressive fashion. The knock against Manny is that some of the names on his resume (Oscar, Shane, Margarito...etc.) were past their best, he lost and drew during his prime (JMM and Morales) and never was able to face his greatest rival Floyd Mayweather.

Manny beat Hatton AFTER Mayweather had beaten Hatton. Great knockout, and due to how it went down I'm confident Manny does that to Hatton any time they fought. Bad style clash for Ricky.
Manny beat Oscar AFTER Mayweather had beaten Oscar. Don't put much stock in this win.
Manny got knocked out by Marquez AFTER Mayweather had beaten Marquez. Styles make fights, JMM grew into the weightclass by the time of that 4th fight, and Manny was extremely aggressive and on the verge of a stoppage himself when he got caught. When you fight tough comp that happens to everyone. The only way to guarantee you remain undefeated is by fighting guys you know you can beat.

Manny was beaten by Bradley in the first fight (Yes, yes I thought that was a bad decision) but he hardly ran Bradley out of the ring second time around. He dominated both fights against a top ranked P4P #3 undefeated champion. Tough to fault a guy for that or because the judges sucked in the first fight.

Manny has fought JMM 4 times. Ist time a draw, second time an SD for Manny, third time a very dodgy decision for Manny and in the fourth fight, Manny nearly got his head decapitated by JMM Bad style match up. Also, Manny and JMM are smaller than Floyd, so I don't put as much stock as most in Floyd beating JMM. To me Floyd is too big for both/either of those guys.

Yet JMM barely wins a round aganist Mayweather.

He has a lost against Morales and two KO losses early in his career. Morales was a BEAST and is a HOFer. Easy. You fight enough tough guys you will lose a close decision here or there.

Look - I’m not saying Pac-Man is not a great fighter.

He is.

But you can’t sit there with a straight face and put Manny above Mayweather, that is insane and it will be shown how insane it is, should they face up next year when Floyd will not even lose a round to Manny

But I'm sure you will trot out the usual "Manny was past his prime" line. I will trot that line out now. Manny is past his prime. Do you disagree with that Manny is no where near the fighter he was in the past and he is well above his best weight. I think that due to the style match up Floyd would have always beat Manny, but also feel that they would have had great fights and Floyd woud've struggled. That being said, just because a fighter loses to another guy doesn't mean that he has to be ranked below that guy. Ray Robinson lost to the larger Joey Maxim and I don't place Joey above Ray. Joe C. Beat Roy Jones and I don't place Joe above Roy.

To be honest until Floyd fights and beats Wladimir Klitschko with one arm tied behind his back will people give him credit.

My list is :

1) Floyd
2) Hop
3) Roy
4) Manny

It's all subjective, so it is a respectable list. That being said, some insight into why you rank them like that would be interesting.

I will start with Roy. He has had too many terrible defeats that leave a serious stain on his career.

With Roy, people put too much weight on his highs and not enough his lows. So sure, for every great performance, like against Toney and Griffin 2, this there were poor defeats (At the back end of his career) to Danny Green (KO 1) and Lebedev (KO 10)

Not to mention his KO defeats to good fighters but hardly hall of famers like Glen Johnson and Tarver.

It’s not just how you start the race, it's how you finish it.

You may get a horse that shows tremendous early speed, but does have the stamina to see the race out and gets caught. When people judge Roy they focus too much on his early career, and the fact that when he was good, he was so far front of everyone, but like the horse, he has faded badly

Whereas Hopkins is the opposite, he did not have lightening early speed, but tremendous stamina, and using the Horse example again, he has caught Jones up and overtook him.

He beat Jones in a rematch and no-one has ever destroyed him and at the age 50 he's fighting another killing machine in Kovalev

I have already gave my verdict on Manny and Floyd above. Floyd ranks number and NO I'm not blinded by his unbeaten records. The simple fact he has been the dominant boxer ion the planet for past 10 years.

[Master]

In terms of legacy this is hard but this is my order.

Roy was simply the best and beat Hopkins easily. What he is doing now does not harm his legacy everyone knows he is past his best.
Floyd for multiple weight champion
Hopkins for his longevity
Manny when he went through the divisions and smashed everyone – short sweet and spectacular.

Side note: Floyd beat Hatton at welterweight. This was a weight that Ricky was not world class and struggled at, his best weight was light welterweight and Manny smashed him.