Prime Holyfield vs prime Joe Frazier

[Master]

Ali withstood the punches of the strongest fighters in history. Fact.

Wlad has a vulnerable chin. You can see that in him anytime a fighter gets in close. It is not smart it is scared and unnecessary. The Povetkin fight illustrated that clearly.

[Max Power]

Ali withstood the punches of the strongest fighters in history. Fact.

Wlad has a vulnerable chin. You can see that in him anytime a fighter gets in close. It is not smart it is scared and unnecessary. The Povetkin fight illustrated that clearly.

Any boxer would have a vulnerable chin against this crop of fighters. Have a look at the bloody guys he fights! They are the hardest punchers the world has ever seen. It is DEFINITELY smart. If he was scared, he wouldn't get in there with them. It is unnecessary if you want to score lots of early round KO's. It is DEFINITELY necessary if you want to barely get hit, win nearly every round of boxing you fight and go 10 years without a loss.

Ali withstood the strongest fighters in history did he? LOL Yeah right! Most of Ali's opponents were not even real HW's. Get real!

[Master]

Ali withstood the punches of the strongest fighters in history. Fact.

Wlad has a vulnerable chin. You can see that in him anytime a fighter gets in close. It is not smart it is scared and unnecessary. The Povetkin fight illustrated that clearly.

Any boxer would have a vulnerable chin against this crop of fighters. Have a look at the bloody guys he fights! They are the hardest punchers the world has ever seen. It is DEFINITELY smart. If he was scared, he wouldn't get in there with them. It is unnecessary if you want to score lots of early round KO's. It is DEFINITELY necessary if you want to barely get hit, win nearly every round of boxing you fight and go 10 years without a loss.

Ali withstood the strongest fighters in history did he? LOL Yeah right! Most of Ali's opponents were not even real HW's. Get real!

If they were not heavyweights what were they lightweights?

[Max Power]

Ali withstood the punches of the strongest fighters in history. Fact.

Wlad has a vulnerable chin. You can see that in him anytime a fighter gets in close. It is not smart it is scared and unnecessary. The Povetkin fight illustrated that clearly.

Any boxer would have a vulnerable chin against this crop of fighters. Have a look at the bloody guys he fights! They are the hardest punchers the world has ever seen. It is DEFINITELY smart. If he was scared, he wouldn't get in there with them. It is unnecessary if you want to score lots of early round KO's. It is DEFINITELY necessary if you want to barely get hit, win nearly every round of boxing you fight and go 10 years without a loss.

Ali withstood the strongest fighters in history did he? LOL Yeah right! Most of Ali's opponents were not even real HW's. Get real!

If they were not heavyweights what were they lightweights?

Follow me closely here, not just Master but all of the OTNB..

This is how we would describe Ali's opponents today very briefly...

Ali himself would be described as a former Cruiser and light HW.

Of Ali's opponents, 50%, HALF of them were CRUISERWEIGHTS or even light-HW's! And Wladmir would not even be ALLOWED to knock them out.

Of the remaining opponents, another HALF of them would be considered FORMER CW's (or former subs). Wladimir was never troubled by any such opponents and please note the BEST ones in this class he fought, (Chambers, Haye, Byrd) were several leagues better than any of the comparable oppnents of Ali's (and I would say even of Ali himself!)

OF the remaining QUARTER of Ali's opponnts, the natural HW's, who ALWAYS boxed over 200+, MOST of them were bums!



Now given all of this, Wladimir was OUTWEIGED as often as he outweighed.

And Ali OUTWEIGHED his opponents in 70%! of his fights (almost all of them in his 60's reign!)

So no, they were HW's by the THEN standard. They are NOT HW's by today's standard.

They were quality HW's by the THEN standard. Not quality HW's by TODAYS standard.



And how did they fare against their opposition? Despite Wladimir's opposition objectively being about 100x better than Ali's, everything considered, Ali STRUGGLD BADLY throughout his whole career, whilst Wladimir has delivered the most dominant display of boxing ever, barely ever losing a single round the whole time and knocking most of his oppoennts out!

I would say that's case closed!

The Clay/Ali era, was an unusually weak era beyond any doubt, even given the timeframe!

[Primo Carnera]

This is why you have to be careful comparing different eras. in Ali's era, the vast majority of HW's are smaller than today. nowadays ,they also have much more high tech training facilities , various supplements (even the legal ones) that benefit athletes of today. Fuck me, they should be better Today!
Even in other sports this is the case . for example, Athletics, World Records get beat and times go down all the time. Jesse Owens wouldn't make an Olympic final now, does that mean a guy who finishes last in the final is greater than Jesse Owens? that's Bullshit!
and when it comes to Ali, I have to take issue a bit . I would say he is about the same size (6 foot 2 or 3 , 210LBS.) as Haye. I would wager that most people believe Ali would beat Haye. and that is despite the fact that Ali's prime was 45 years ago, he didn't have access to the training facilities and techniques that Haye did and didn't have the benefit of nutrition and supplement advances that Haye has.
With all those disadvantages Ali had , the only boxer who I can think of who succeeded in similar circumstances was Rocky vs Drago!!!
there has to be a bit of licence for the era someone was born in, or it's pointless even talking about it.

[Master]

You really are an imbecile of course I am talking about those standards as that is all Ali could do is fight in those standards just as Wlad can fight in these standards.

20 years from now we will get Max Power junior talking the same crap you will about Wlad because they may be considered small.

Bigger does not mean better. I have no doubt Tyson and Lewis would wipe the current peak and experienced Wlad. Tyson would be regarded as smaller but he certainly hit harder.

[Max Power]

You really are an imbecile of course I am talking about those standards as that is all Ali could do is fight in those standards just as Wlad can fight in these standards.

20 years from now we will get Max Power junior talking the same crap you will about Wlad because they may be considered small.

Bigger does not mean better. I have no doubt Tyson and Lewis would wipe the current peak and experienced Wlad. Tyson would be regarded as smaller but he certainly hit harder.

Maybe your right there Master. Lennox might beat Wlad, but then again Lennox struggled with HEAPS of opponents that we pretty much know would never lose a round against. And Tyson was tied up by Green and Tillis, dudes who would never step into a ring with current Wladimir, and he was thoroughly bashed badly by featherfist bummy Buster Douglas. So equally plausible is Wladimir outboxes Lennox and dismantles Tyson, probably knocking both out.

Sorry but in a H2H match up, bigger statistically gives you a MAJOR advantage. Therefore is IS better, not by assumption, but by incontivertible fact.

A good big man, beats a good little man all else equal. AND a heavy bum can cause more problems sometimes than a light skilled fighter because they are often more dangerous!

There will only be a Max Jnr 20 years from now sprouting similar stuff about this generation if my generation of fans become as naïve as the OTNB are today and assume that the Klitschko era will never be beaten and featured boxers of the highest quality and the new era is inept (as occurs today). However I think we are now in an awakening.

For the first time in history, many of us have woken up and realised we ARE in the best era NOW, BEFORE that era is long in the past (as has happened since the dawn of boxing. It has been claimed that boxing has been getting progressively worse since its inception!)

[Max Power]

This is why you have to be careful comparing different eras. in Ali's era, the vast majority of HW's are smaller than today. nowadays ,they also have much more high tech training facilities , various supplements (even the legal ones) that benefit athletes of today. Fuck me, they should be better Today!
Even in other sports this is the case . for example, Athletics, World Records get beat and times go down all the time. Jesse Owens wouldn't make an Olympic final now, does that mean a guy who finishes last in the final is greater than Jesse Owens? that's Bullshit!
and when it comes to Ali, I have to take issue a bit . I would say he is about the same size (6 foot 2 or 3 , 210LBS.) as Haye. I would wager that most people believe Ali would beat Haye. and that is despite the fact that Ali's prime was 45 years ago, he didn't have access to the training facilities and techniques that Haye did and didn't have the benefit of nutrition and supplement advances that Haye has.
With all those disadvantages Ali had , the only boxer who I can think of who succeeded in similar circumstances was Rocky vs Drago!!!
there has to be a bit of licence for the era someone was born in, or it's pointless even talking about it.

Good one buddy, you compare featherfist Ali to knockout artist Haye. Haye has some of the most outstanding reflexes ever seen at HW ever. Ali was a human punching bag of unmatched disgrace. At any given weight, Haye is heaps faster than Ali, not to mention several times more powerful.

Ali would not last more than 3 rounds with David Haye, not under any circumstances!

[Dia bando]

This is why you have to be careful comparing different eras. in Ali's era, the vast majority of HW's are smaller than today. nowadays ,they also have much more high tech training facilities , various supplements (even the legal ones) that benefit athletes of today. Fuck me, they should be better Today!
Even in other sports this is the case . for example, Athletics, World Records get beat and times go down all the time. Jesse Owens wouldn't make an Olympic final now, does that mean a guy who finishes last in the final is greater than Jesse Owens? that's Bullshit!
and when it comes to Ali, I have to take issue a bit . I would say he is about the same size (6 foot 2 or 3 , 210LBS.) as Haye. I would wager that most people believe Ali would beat Haye. and that is despite the fact that Ali's prime was 45 years ago, he didn't have access to the training facilities and techniques that Haye did and didn't have the benefit of nutrition and supplement advances that Haye has.
With all those disadvantages Ali had , the only boxer who I can think of who succeeded in similar circumstances was Rocky vs Drago!!!
there has to be a bit of licence for the era someone was born in, or it's pointless even talking about it.

Good one buddy, you compare featherfist Ali to knockout artist Haye. Haye has some of the most outstanding reflexes ever seen at HW ever. Ali was a human punching bag of unmatched disgrace. At any given weight, Haye is heaps faster than Ali, not to mention several times more powerful.

Ali would not last more than 3 rounds with David Haye, not under any circumstances!

Haye would KO Ali with or without a broken toe,! I BET YOUR GOOD TO YOUR WIFE YOU NEVER GO HOME.

[Spicoli]

I just don't understand why so much stock is put into Haye at heavyweight based on beating up John Ruiz. It has to be that because he certainly has not done anything else there, literally.

[brocktonblockbust]

This is why you have to be careful comparing different eras. in Ali's era, the vast majority of HW's are smaller than today. nowadays ,they also have much more high tech training facilities , various supplements (even the legal ones) that benefit athletes of today. Fuck me, they should be better Today!
Even in other sports this is the case . for example, Athletics, World Records get beat and times go down all the time. Jesse Owens wouldn't make an Olympic final now, does that mean a guy who finishes last in the final is greater than Jesse Owens? that's Bullshit!
and when it comes to Ali, I have to take issue a bit . I would say he is about the same size (6 foot 2 or 3 , 210LBS.) as Haye. I would wager that most people believe Ali would beat Haye. and that is despite the fact that Ali's prime was 45 years ago, he didn't have access to the training facilities and techniques that Haye did and didn't have the benefit of nutrition and supplement advances that Haye has.
With all those disadvantages Ali had , the only boxer who I can think of who succeeded in similar circumstances was Rocky vs Drago!!!
there has to be a bit of licence for the era someone was born in, or it's pointless even talking about it.

Good one buddy, you compare featherfist Ali to knockout artist Haye. Haye has some of the most outstanding reflexes ever seen at HW ever. Ali was a human punching bag of unmatched disgrace. At any given weight, Haye is heaps faster than Ali, not to mention several times more powerful.

Ali would not last more than 3 rounds with David Haye, not under any circumstances!

What I like doin' is sittin' back, smilin', and watchin' some folks just out-do themselves at every turn.

[Master]

I just don't understand why so much stock is put into Haye at heavyweight based on beating up John Ruiz. It has to be that because he certainly has not done anything else there, literally.

Do not listen to Max. In his eyes Have beat Ali even David himself would disagree.

[Max Power]

I just don't understand why so much stock is put into Haye at heavyweight based on beating up John Ruiz. It has to be that because he certainly has not done anything else there, literally.

Do not listen to Max. In his eyes Have beat Ali even David himself would disagree.

Yes I can just imagine David Haye being REAL intimidated by a guy who went balls to the wall with Doug Jones, got plastered by Henry Cooper and realistically got beaten by such luminary opponents like Bum Jimmy Young and bum beater Earnie "I can't even box" Shavers, for which they were robbed of their efforts.

Haye could not hold a candle to such overacheievers.

All his athleticism, speed, reflexes, elusiveness, counterpunching skills and power would be near worthless against those boys, but not Ali, he doesn't need any real skills, just heart and balls, the "unmeasurable" quantities.

[Mr140]

Wlad lost to fucking bum when he was a younger man and few contenders from the 90's. He maybe better now but it not like the Hw division full of talent right now. The reason being is that there are sports that most of our big men play in now is Basketball and Football Boxing not there anymore well at least for bigger guys really. I mean ali got decked a dew times early in his career but he did not lose. Wlad early loses were against guys who did jack shit really before and after him kinda hurts the legacy and he wont fight best fighter in his era.

[Arvid_85]

At first glance this fight seems like a FOTY. In reality it would have been a shutout, with The Holy Man punishing Joe with gruesome combinations. Like the Tyson fight, but without the adversity that Tyson gave Evander.