Alright, thanks for the links. Our founding fathers did some horrible things to our natives but the English had used them as instruments of terror against the settlers. Still, the US government committed many atrocities which certainly could have been handled other ways. Interesting subnote, had the Indians here pulled it together they could have kicked us tight off the continent but they had too much internal division. Thanks for the links, I must admit I know little of Winston outside of the ww2 years so it will be interesting to follow up on.