2002 Lennox Lewis vs 1988 Mike Tyson

[Britkid]

Reading through the thread i've decided Lewis would have beat prime Mike. Too strong, too intelligent. However, prime Mike would start favourite over any heavyweight in history.

I think you have summed it up.

Tyson brought so many people into the sport, there is an emotional attachment that warps opinion on him. I always say he is boxing's most underrated overrated fighter boxing has seen.

Ok, so let me get this right? Are you 2 saying Lewis beats every single HW in history?
Or are we just having a play with words here and saying something but not saying anything?

I am saying Tyson warps opinion, and is probably somewhere in the middle, which means he is arguably a top ten Heavyweight. Lewis is generally considered a top ten Heavyweight, but personally I would place him in the bottom half of that ten.

[Britkid]

Reading through the thread i've decided Lewis would have beat prime Mike. Too strong, too intelligent. However, prime Mike would start favourite over any heavyweight in history.

I think you have summed it up.

Tyson brought so many people into the sport, there is an emotional attachment that warps opinion on him. I always say he is boxing's most underrated overrated fighter boxing has seen.

Name another fighter in any division that has defended the unified WBC, WBA and IBF titles sucessfully 6 times in one run.

That fighter is not an over rated fighter. That fighter has had to fight everyone.

James J Jeffries, Tommy Burns, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Muhammad Ali did not get the chance because only, for some, the NBA (renamed WBA in 1962) existed. So they did not get to fight for the WBA and two of its bastard children. But were all generally considered champions who made six successful defences, unlike Mike, who made two...

[ross]

Reading through the thread i've decided Lewis would have beat prime Mike. Too strong, too intelligent. However, prime Mike would start favourite over any heavyweight in history.

I think you have summed it up.

Tyson brought so many people into the sport, there is an emotional attachment that warps opinion on him. I always say he is boxing's most underrated overrated fighter boxing has seen.

Name another fighter in any division that has defended the unified WBC, WBA and IBF titles sucessfully 6 times in one run.

That fighter is not an over rated fighter. That fighter has had to fight everyone.

James J Jeffries, Tommy Burns, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Muhammad Ali did not get the chance because only, for some, the NBA (renamed WBA in 1962) existed. So they did not get to fight for the WBA and two of its bastard children. But were all generally considered champions who made six successful defences, unlike Mike, who made two...

Dont give me that shit!

It was easier to avoid certain fighters years ago with one title than it is now!!

You will find alot of those older champs wouldnt have kept 3 belts together because it meant having so many mandatory defences. The belts would be no less fractired than they are now.

[Britkid]

Reading through the thread i've decided Lewis would have beat prime Mike. Too strong, too intelligent. However, prime Mike would start favourite over any heavyweight in history.

I think you have summed it up.

Tyson brought so many people into the sport, there is an emotional attachment that warps opinion on him. I always say he is boxing's most underrated overrated fighter boxing has seen.

Name another fighter in any division that has defended the unified WBC, WBA and IBF titles sucessfully 6 times in one run.

That fighter is not an over rated fighter. That fighter has had to fight everyone.

James J Jeffries, Tommy Burns, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Muhammad Ali did not get the chance because only, for some, the NBA (renamed WBA in 1962) existed. So they did not get to fight for the WBA and two of its bastard children. But were all generally considered champions who made six successful defences, unlike Mike, who made two...

Dont give me that shit!

It was easier to avoid certain fighters years ago with one title than it is now!!

You will find alot of those older champs wouldnt have kept 3 belts together because it meant having so many mandatory defences. The belts would be no less fractired than they are now.

I am sorry, I forgot there is only one champ in this era. Unlike in Marciano's era when one of the ten or so organizations that 'created' champions had two title holders...

Boxing has and probably will always be corrupt, but it was no worse then, than it is now.

[Primo Carnera]

Reading through the thread i've decided Lewis would have beat prime Mike. Too strong, too intelligent. However, prime Mike would start favourite over any heavyweight in history.

I think you have summed it up.

Tyson brought so many people into the sport, there is an emotional attachment that warps opinion on him. I always say he is boxing's most underrated overrated fighter boxing has seen.

Ok, so let me get this right? Are you 2 saying Lewis beats every single HW in history?
Or are we just having a play with words here and saying something but not saying anything?

I am saying Tyson warps opinion, and is probably somewhere in the middle, which means he is arguably a top ten Heavyweight. Lewis is generally considered a top ten Heavyweight, but personally I would place him in the bottom half of that ten.

Ok, so you 2 are playing with words. First Fenster says (and you agreed), that "Tyson would start favourite over every HW in history" but Lewis beats him. That implies that Tyson is the best HW in history EXCEPT for Lewis. But then you say Lewis is lower half of top 10 and Tyson below him
You also constantly used Tyson after 88, before 88, but never the 88 version to make
Your futile point , and also manage to bring Joe Louis into the equation. I still can't fathom out what the fuck Joe Louis has to do with this thread
Also, you pick out one isolated sentence in a 4 paragraph post to further try to emphasise your point (unsuccessfully) and then try to "prove"that Tyson was intimidated with a you tube video (admittedly you never posted,but nonetheless agreed with) that merely shows a young frustrated guy with emotions! He still went out and KTFO of everyone that came his way. Yes there's fear, every boxer has it, but some harness and utilise it to get the job done.
He was hardly shitting his pants at his opponent was he?
Finally, I've ranted on and on here, but I'm going to sum your argument up in 3 simple words.........CLUTCHING AT STRAWS!

[ross]

I agree, but there's one missing factor...... mentality.

Tyson at his peak was unwavering. He fought some huge punchers (ie: Razor Ruddock), and still found the way and the will to win. With Lennox, you didn't know what you were going to get on fight night. Laser-focused and angry..... or lazy and lackadaisical. If you add the adjectives on 2002 Lewis, namely focused and determined..... THEN I would agree with Lewis winning 7 or 8 times out of 10. Otherwise forget it.

Alright then, let's account for that then




All of that was bubbling under the surface, just 1 or 2 good shots away

This is a 15 year old child.....

[mikeeod]

Back to the main point, Tyson would always have a punchers chance vs Lennox, so a Tyson win isn't out of the question. That being said, Lewis was much larger and would've come in against Tyson with a laser focus due to Mike being so dangerous. With both versions fighting their best fights, Lennox comes out ahead. Too many weapons, too smart, and too big for any version of Mike Tyson.

[nmc231295]

Tyson.
always

[Fenster]

I said prime Tyson would start favourite over any boxer in history because in his pomp I believe he was the most spectacular, intimidating heavyweight ever.

However, that doesn't mean I think he would beat everyone. Not even close.

In 1988 Tyson beat an ancient (for those times) 225lbs Larry Holmes, a 240 fat Tony Tubbs and a 210 Spinks.

2002 Lennox Lewis is a 250lb athlete, unflappable, has superb skills, intelligent, a massive puncher and recognised as the best heavyweight on the planet, due to having beat everyone he'd ever faced.

I think it's fair to say in Tyson's pomp he never faced anyone close to Lewis.

[Primo Carnera]

I said prime Tyson would start favourite over any boxer in history because in his pomp I believe he was the most spectacular, intimidating heavyweight ever.

However, that doesn't mean I think he would beat everyone. Not even close.

In 1988 Tyson beat an ancient (for those times) 225lbs Larry Holmes, a 240 fat Tony Tubbs and a 210 Spinks.

2002 Lennox Lewis is a 250lb athlete, unflappable, has superb skills, intelligent, a massive puncher and recognised as the best heavyweight on the planet, due to having beat everyone he'd ever faced.

I think it's fair to say in Tyson's pomp he never faced anyone close to Lewis.

yep, my points were.
a. saying he starts favourite and not divulging further implies that "he should beat them" and
b. this isn't aimed at you, but you said yourself that he was the "most intimidating HW ever" , yet Britkid was saying that Tyson was himself intimidated and afraid.
if you think Lewis beats Tyson fine, you've made points to stake your claim . I personally don't agree, but that's what this forum is about.......different opinions.

[Fenster]

I didn't mean to imply that Tyson starting favourite means he should win. I believe if you took all the best heavyweights in history in their pomp - which includes Tyson - popular opinion would make him the favourite. Whether or not he would have beat Ali or Foreman or Marciano or Gary Mason.... we'll never know.

[El Kabong]

This is a 15 year old child.....

Yes and he was the youngest heavyweight champion of all time....just pointing out that a Tyson who wept before fights wasn't all that far in the past. But please feel free to elaborate on how Tyson grew emotionally and psychologically in the 7 years between this and 1988.

[TitoFan]

This is a 15 year old child.....

Yes and he was the youngest heavyweight champion of all time....just pointing out that a Tyson who wept before fights wasn't all that far in the past. But please feel free to elaborate on how Tyson grew emotionally and psychologically in the 7 years between this and 1988.

I don't think Tyson grew up emotionally and psychologically until after he retired.

However, that is besides the point I was originally trying to make. Whereas Lewis was given to the periodic lackadaisical attitude, which earned him two knockout losses which he later avenged, Tyson was not. Regardless of whether he won or lost, Tyson went in there trying to rip your head off. His head was a mess.... but inside the ring he was like a caged animal. If the Lewis that got KO'ed against Rahman and McCall shows up against prime Tyson, he gets KTFO'ed..... I don't care how much bigger Lewis is. Otherwise, the saying that a great big man beats a great little man has a lot of truth to it. Prime Tyson versus a prime (and laser-focused) Lewis would be a helluva fight. But I think Lewis takes it over 50% of the time.

[Master]

I think the general consensus was that Tyson would win until Fenster causes trouble and starts stirring.

Lewis would be the best opponent Tyson would have faced but I do no think he had enough to beat Tyson only to survive 12 round. If Lennox opened up he would have been sparked out. Even when they fought Lennox was too reluctant to let his hands go and Manny Stewart was pleading with him to finish him off.

[ross]

This is a 15 year old child.....

Yes and he was the youngest heavyweight champion of all time....just pointing out that a Tyson who wept before fights wasn't all that far in the past. But please feel free to elaborate on how Tyson grew emotionally and psychologically in the 7 years between this and 1988.

Are you for real?

You cant comprehend the difference in maturity between a 15 year old and a man who had been in the biggest fights the world had known at 22?