What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?

[vidgil]

On one hand he must be respected for staying atop the HW division for so long. Even though it was a garbage division, it still was an impressive run.

But on the other hand he fought in a very dishonorable way with his excessive clinching and leaning his body on people. He had a very boring style and he pretty much single-handedly made the entire world not care about the HW division.

And then when he was finally dethroned, it was done by a mediocre fat body gypsy who, turns out is completely insane. And it was done so in a horrible fight where Clinch-ko could barely by bothered to throw a punch.

I know a lot of boxing fans rate him in the top 10 of all time. To me he was just an inflated man with a glass chin who stayed in Europe and benefited from the best of "German engineering". I don't believe he belongs in the same breath as great champs like Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Lewis, etc.

[erics44]

I'm inclined to agree with where your post finished

there was so much holding in all of his fights, in more than a few of his fights he held a lot more than he punched, and it makes it clear that his reign was built on the money he generated and the amount of people he made rich every time he fought rather than boxing and sportsmanship

in any neutral situation he would have been DQ'd time and time again

for these reasons I don't think he can be in the top 10

In fact if you take a guy who is ranked 99th who bases his style on boxing and throwing punches how can you argue that the big klit is higher than 99th when he bases his style on holding

[powerpuncher]

He turned into a good fighter but definitely not top 10 Worthy. I would say top 20.

[El Kabong]

He turned into a good fighter but definitely not top 10 Worthy. I would say top 20.

Yeah I mean about 10 years in a row as THE champ, 23 successful title defenses 2nd only to Joe Louis, he's fought in more title fights than ANY other heavyweight in the history of the sport 28, he's defeated the most undefeated boxers in the history of the sport with 12....sure he's "definitely not top 10 worthy"


What else did he have to do in his career? How's about you guys set the bar a little higher



"Well it's the holding"....so 100% of the referees in boxing are shit?

"Well it's his opponents".....so Louis, Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, etc ONLY fought all time greats?

"Well it's his style"......64 wins 53 KO's



If you have high blood pressure, watch out for this thread, lot of salt in here.....salty salty salty.

[TitoFan]

On one hand he must be respected for staying atop the HW division for so long. Even though it was a garbage division, it still was an impressive run.

But on the other hand he fought in a very dishonorable way with his excessive clinching and leaning his body on people. He had a very boring style and he pretty much single-handedly made the entire world not care about the HW division.

And then when he was finally dethroned, it was done by a mediocre fat body gypsy who, turns out is completely insane. And it was done so in a horrible fight where Clinch-ko could barely by bothered to throw a punch.

I know a lot of boxing fans rate him in the top 10 of all time. To me he was just an inflated man with a glass chin who stayed in Europe and benefited from the best of "German engineering". I don't believe he belongs in the same breath as great champs like Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Lewis, etc.

Amen, brother. Seems we agree on many boxing opinions. The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch. In retrospect, those KTFO losses early in his career were probably the worst thing that could happen to the HW division, as it shaped the boring reign that came soon after.

I voted "Good HW", because there wasn't an option for Top 20 All-Time. Top 10, IMO, he is NOT.

[El Kabong]

Amen, brother. Seems we agree on many boxing opinions. The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch. In retrospect, those KTFO losses early in his career were probably the worst thing that could happen to the HW division, as it shaped the boring reign that came soon after.

I voted "Good HW", because there wasn't an option for Top 20 All-Time. Top 10, IMO, he is NOT.

SALTY



"The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch."



Yeah as opposed to those heavyweights who just allow themselves to be hit flush over and over and over again.....yeah THOSE guys stick around in the sport, THEY make a name for themselves


Dude was going to be "the next big thing"....and what did I tell you? HE GETS HIT TOO FUCKING MUCH

[vidgil]

Damn, so sad to see Abdusalamov like that

But I saw that fight and Abdusalamov was, with all due respect to him, a punching bag for Perez with no defense. He would plod forward and get punched in the head with no real attempt to avoid it.

I think there's a great middle ground between "punching bag" and "running scared" that many a great fight has stayed. Of course a fighter needs to be cognizant of punches coming his way, but it must not deter him from throwing punches himself.

Guys like Clinch-ko and Chicken Floyd would stink out arenas because they were happy to go the distance. Wlad would grab and hug and Eric is right, he would have been disqualified many times if he wasn't in his own territory.

[El Kabong]

Damn, so sad to see Abdusalamov like that

But I saw that fight and Abdusalamov was, with all due respect to him, a punching bag for Perez with no defense. He would plod forward and get punched in the head with no real attempt to avoid it.

I think there's a great middle ground between "punching bag" and "running scared" that many a great fight has stayed. Of course a fighter needs to be cognizant of punches coming his way, but it must not deter him from throwing punches himself.

Guys like Clinch-ko and Chicken Floyd would stink out arenas because they were happy to go the distance. Wlad would grab and hug and Eric is right, he would have been disqualified many times if he wasn't in his own territory.

"If he wasn't in his own territory"
Madison Square Garden, Boardwalk Hall, Stade de Suisse, Mandalay Bay, Caesers Palace, Etess Arena Atlantic City, London Arena, The Orleans in Nevada, Grand Casino Avoyelles, Sport Palace, Budapest, Hungary, Olympic Stadium, Moscow, Russia vs Povetkin.....care to take a stab at how many DQ's happened to Wlad in those arenas?

And not only that Wlad has fought 1 time, 1 time in Ukraine....that's his home country. He's a big draw in germany, he's fought a lot in Germany but Germany ain't his home.


Wlad has had 68 professional fights, he's won the overwhelming majority of them, and he's won them by KO.....but I suppose you can still complain about it if you fucking try hard enough.

[vidgil]

"If he wasn't in his own territory"
Madison Square Garden, Boardwalk Hall, Stade de Suisse, Mandalay Bay, Caesers Palace, Etess Arena Atlantic City, London Arena, The Orleans in Nevada, Grand Casino Avoyelles, Sport Palace, Budapest, Hungary, Olympic Stadium, Moscow, Russia vs Povetkin.....care to take a stab at how many DQ's happened to Wlad in those arenas?

And not only that Wlad has fought 1 time, 1 time in Ukraine....that's his home country. He's a big draw in germany, he's fought a lot in Germany but Germany ain't his home.


Wlad has had 68 professional fights, he's won the overwhelming majority of them, and he's won them by KO.....but I suppose you can still complain about it if you fucking try hard enough.

Germany was his adopted home and most definitely his "territory".

Klitschko has a lot of power and money behind him. He was always the promoter or co-promoter of his fights with K2 promotions. With that kind of power and stature comes a lot of influence.

If he was an under card no-name who wasn't promoting the event, I think he would have been DQ'd several times!

[TitoFan]

SALTY



"The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch."



Yeah as opposed to those heavyweights who just allow themselves to be hit flush over and over and over again.....yeah THOSE guys stick around in the sport, THEY make a name for themselves


Dude was going to be "the next big thing"....and what did I tell you? HE GETS HIT TOO FUCKING MUCH

Ah yes..........

Because as we all know those are the only two fucking choices:

1. Spend all 12 rounds flinching at every punch and using whatever means (legal or not) available to avoid the vapor trail of the opponent's punches, lest that chin shatter into a billion pieces. Fans be damned... I just want my check and to get the hell outta here. I'll clinch, maul, grapple, or throw a punch per decade as I did against the Gypsy King.

2. Put your chin out there (a la Mayorga) to be hit like a birthday piñata, so I can show everyone how macho I am.



Well, Bob....... which will it be?? Is it Door # 1? Or Door # 2?



Pleeeease..... that's beneath you, isn't it? Reducing every issue to either pitch black or lily white? Shame on you.

[El Kabong]

Ah yes..........

Because as we all know those are the only two fucking choices:

1. Spend all 12 rounds flinching at every punch and using whatever means (legal or not) available to avoid the vapor trail of the opponent's punches, lest that chin shatter into a billion pieces. Fans be damned... I just want my check and to get the hell outta here. I'll clinch, maul, grapple, or throw a punch per decade as I did against the Gypsy King.

2. Put your chin out there (a la Mayorga) to be hit like a birthday piñata, so I can show everyone how macho I am.



Well, Bob....... which will it be?? Is it Door # 1? Or Door # 2?



Pleeeease..... that's beneath you, isn't it? Reducing every issue to either pitch black or lily white? Shame on you.

What is the purpose of the sport of boxing TitoFan? Why is it called "The Sweet Science"? Even guys like Mike Tyson who were very aggressive in the ring always attempted to.....AVOID BEING HIT.

It doesn't matter what you look like when you win, the key is at the end of the fight you win, and therefore you look like a......WINNER....thank you for your participation in this debate

[TitoFan]

Ah yes..........

Because as we all know those are the only two fucking choices:

1. Spend all 12 rounds flinching at every punch and using whatever means (legal or not) available to avoid the vapor trail of the opponent's punches, lest that chin shatter into a billion pieces. Fans be damned... I just want my check and to get the hell outta here. I'll clinch, maul, grapple, or throw a punch per decade as I did against the Gypsy King.

2. Put your chin out there (a la Mayorga) to be hit like a birthday piñata, so I can show everyone how macho I am.



Well, Bob....... which will it be?? Is it Door # 1? Or Door # 2?



Pleeeease..... that's beneath you, isn't it? Reducing every issue to either pitch black or lily white? Shame on you.

What is the purpose of the sport of boxing TitoFan? Why is it called "The Sweet Science"? Even guys like Mike Tyson who were very aggressive in the ring always attempted to.....AVOID BEING HIT.

It doesn't matter what you look like when you win, the key is at the end of the fight you win, and therefore you look like a......WINNER....thank you for your participation in this debate

By comparing Wlad to Iron Mike you have just fallen flat on your face.

I'll indulge you. Mike attempted to AVOID BEING HIT while still managing to make a fight out of it. Not by clinching, not by mauling, not by having a deer in the headlights look whenever a flurry came at him.... but by being AGGRESSIVE HIMSELF, which by the way, is the REAL purpose of the sport.

I'll give you a short multiple choice quiz. The purpose of the sport of boxing is:

a) To hit the other guy.
b) To avoid getting hit.


You can only choose one answer.
What did you say?

WRONG. It's to hit the other guy. If you can do so while avoiding getting hit... all the more power to you. But if all you've done the entire fight is avoid getting hit..... guess what. YOU FUCKING LOST!!!

Besides, there's another sport more suited for that. It's called Dancing with the Stars.

It's amazing that you can sit there and.... with a straight face..... defend a guy who broke all kinds of world records for inactivity during his stinker of a fight versus the Gypsy King. But that's what being a blind fan does to a guy.

You're welcome.

[erics44]

Amen, brother. Seems we agree on many boxing opinions. The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch. In retrospect, those KTFO losses early in his career were probably the worst thing that could happen to the HW division, as it shaped the boring reign that came soon after.

I voted "Good HW", because there wasn't an option for Top 20 All-Time. Top 10, IMO, he is NOT.

SALTY



"The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch."



Yeah as opposed to those heavyweights who just allow themselves to be hit flush over and over and over again.....yeah THOSE guys stick around in the sport, THEY make a name for themselves


Dude was going to be "the next big thing"....and what did I tell you? HE GETS HIT TOO FUCKING MUCH

pretty untasteful post

but I think you miss the point too

wlad klit is doing the right thing, hes winning fights and getting hit as little as possible, he doesn't care how he fights, the german/eastern European fans would love him if he sat still in the ring for 12 rounds

the thread is about him being good enough to be in the top 10 of all time

I personally think that question is very hard to answer because it didn't matter where he fought, as he generated so much money for so many people he was allowed to "fight" in what ever way he wanted

holding and leaning is against the rules and his style was based on holding and leaning, punching was secondary

if the boxing rules were followed then who knows how good he would have been, I personally think he would have lost his championship long before he did

[vidgil]

Amen, brother. Seems we agree on many boxing opinions. The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch. In retrospect, those KTFO losses early in his career were probably the worst thing that could happen to the HW division, as it shaped the boring reign that came soon after.

I voted "Good HW", because there wasn't an option for Top 20 All-Time. Top 10, IMO, he is NOT.

Yes exactly, and people picked up on his fearfulness. That's why the HW division became irrelevant IMO

The HW champion is supposed to be society's ideal alpha man. Joe Louis, Marciano, Ali, Tyson, etc. These were men who instilled fear in people, they were looked at as apex predators.

The public saw Wlad for the scared man he was and his fearful way of fighting, and they laughed and moved on.

[Master]

Outside top 5 maybe inside top 10 but voted him just outside.